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Thread: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

  1. #201
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    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    and you know in the end when one Democrat rises out of the ashes, the other will fully endorse the winner despite being methodically ripped apart by them. There's no unity until only one stands in the way of the political rival's party affiliation.
    Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

  2. #202

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Quote Originally Posted by craigwatanabe View Post
    and you know in the end when one Democrat rises out of the ashes, the other will fully endorse the winner despite being methodically ripped apart by them. There's no unity until only one stands in the way of the political rival's party affiliation.
    What about Romney and McCain? I thought they went at it intensely and there was that time when McCain wasn't on the ballot in West Virginia and told all his supporters to vote Huckabee to deny Romney the vote, Romney called it a dirty trick, and then Romney was all buddy buddy with McCain after the former suspended his campaign

  3. #203

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Quote Originally Posted by timkona View Post
    Obama is reeling from the pastors comments. Amazing how self destructive the left side of politics can be. You gotta know the pastor is cheering for Obama, and probably does not even realize how much he hurts the cause.
    I agree. I saw the videos on multiple news outlets yesterday morning.

    But we also have some controversial statements uttered by John McCain's spiritual allies.

    So at this point, would the only still-in-the-game candidate that doesn't have a controversial spiritual influence be Clinton?

  4. #204
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    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    I was in NO in May, right before Katrina in Sept. Filthin, Flarin, Filthilthin, Dirty, Smelly, Slimy, Vomit, Grody-to-the-Max.

    But fun as hell, really. If ever God could get mad at a city, then NO is the poster child. And if there is going to be a gay rights parade, then fine with me. But the gratuitous sexuality of the situation can be, might be, will be seen by children. Gays, in general, don't think about that.

    Theres a difference between the comments made about NO and the comments made by Obama's pastor. It's a question of degree.
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  5. #205

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    I agree. I saw the videos on multiple news outlets yesterday morning.

    But we also have some controversial statements uttered by John McCain's spiritual allies.

    So at this point, would the only still-in-the-game candidate that doesn't have a controversial spiritual influence be Clinton?
    I would imagine the difference is due in no small part to the fact that McCain has never made his religion an integral part of his campaign and the two pastors quoted are "supporters" as opposed to Rev. Wright whom Obama acknowledges as the man who led him to Jesus and who married him, baptized his children and who has played a significant role in BHO's life for 20 years.

    That said, BHO was clearly uncomfortable answering questions about Rev. Wright and his stated beliefs on race, America and HRC. It's hard (if not impossible) to defend much of what was said and I keep waiting for more of these Rev. Wright verbal "bombs" to drop - there must a ton of them out there. Describing Rev. Wright (paraphrasing here) as an uncle who's a little crazy and says outrageous things is a stretch.

    And, yes, HRC appears to be the only one who doesn't have a wrong headed religious person supporting her - she just has a husband and other politicians who have to be reined in verbally! However, there are many months to go yet, so anything is possible

  6. #206
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    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Quote Originally Posted by timkona View Post
    Like I said before......Suicidal political tendencies dominate the left fringe of the political coin. Dems need to somehow temper certain parts of their membership if they ever hope to dominate the White House again.
    Isn't there a saying about who you are is determined by the friends (and family) you keep?

  7. #207
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    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Random View Post
    Isn't there a saying about who you are is determined by the friends (and family) you keep?
    Oh, oh, oh.... I know this one! (It's the title of my books)

    It's a 2,500 year old Aesop's Fable, and it's about a donkey (Obviously a reference to Democrats!).

    The donkey

    A man wished to purchase a donkey, and agreed with its owner that he should try out the animal before he bought him. He took the donkey home and put him in the straw-yard with his other donkeys, upon which the new animal left all the others and at once joined the one that was most idle and the laziest of them all.

    Seeing this, the man put a halter on him and led him back to his owner. On being asked how, in so short a time, he could have made a trial of him, he answered, "I do not need a trial; I know that he will be just the same as the one he chose for his companion."

    A man is known by the company he keeps.

  8. #208
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    Talking Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Creative-1 View Post
    A man is known by the company he keeps.
    OR in this case, a voter is known by the candidate he supports.

  9. #209

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2


  10. #210
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    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Does Hillary have a perceived sense of entitlement, as if the presidency is hers to inherit?

  11. #211

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    Okay. My mind's made up on who should be on the Democratic ticket.

    Obama/Sinbad - '08!!!!
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  12. #212
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    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    Okay. My mind's made up on who should be on the Democratic ticket.

    Obama/Sinbad - '08!!!!

    I take it the Washington Post is pro Hillary as it ended with a defense for her.

    This war between the two candidates is getting so intense lately that I can't foresee any support for either one when the other one wins and it's time to vote Republican or Democrat. With Hillary and Obama at each other's throats how are the followers taking all of this in if their candidate loses? Will they rally with the Democrat that just trounced their candidate? Or will they suck it all in and support the other despite how much they were against the other candidate's ideology? Or will they simply not vote.

    So which is the lesser of two evils, the Democrat they didn't support? Or the Republican they could never support. To me, to stay true to one's ideals, the logical choice is to not vote at all.
    Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

  13. #213
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    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Quote Originally Posted by craigwatanabe View Post
    So which is the lesser of two evils, the Democrat they didn't support? Or the Republican they could never support. To me, to stay true to one's ideals, the logical choice is to not vote at all.
    Meh. When all is said and done, and the dust is clear, the party will unify behind the victor representing their party.

    That's the thing about politics. You can backstab your colleagues and still go out for drinks with them.

  14. #214

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Did anyone else watch the Obama speech? Upon reflection I think I'm going to call this one the "Throw grandma under the bus" speech. He equated his grandmother confessing concern once about passing a black man on the street and occassional uttering of racial or ethnic stereotypes with the Rev. Wright who spewed racial hatred and anti-American bile from the pulpit and other venues for decades. Yeah, those are equivalent. Never mind that we don't choose our family but we do have the freedom to choose our friends, spouse and pastor.

    There was much more to the speech, of course. My overall impression of what he was really trying to say was that we as a nation have only one option for the future: to heal our racial divisions and "perfect" our nation, we must choose him for president. Anything less would be a rejection of racial progress.

  15. #215
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    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Quote Originally Posted by craigwatanabe View Post
    ...To me, to stay true to one's ideals, the logical choice is to not vote at all.
    No, I believe the logical choice would be to vote for a third party or independent candidate that has no chance of winning. Then you would be announcing your dissatisfaction with the other choices.
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

  16. #216
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    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    So...we write in each others' names this year? I think writing in something...is a good idea.

    Obama sure is having a hard time distancing himself from the man he's called pastor for over twenty years. Good grief, I finally heard that dude and now I don't have to take anyone else's word for how he sounds. SHEESH...Obama is proud this guy baptized his daughters, etc?? Sorry....it's seriously making me doubt I can stand to say "President Obama" and I now think this does matter to so many others, as it does to me, that Clinton may take the nomination and election because of it.

    I'm either staying home and baking cookies or yeah, doing a write-in.

  17. #217
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    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    But for the O'Reilly Factor reporting on the pastor, you'd have never known about it from the dominating liberal bias in the media.

    I think it's all so funny.
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  18. #218

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Random View Post
    When all is said and done, and the dust is clear, the party will unify behind the victor representing their party.
    That's the thing about politics. You can backstab your colleagues and still go out for drinks with them.
    Quote Originally Posted by salmoned View Post
    No, I believe the logical choice would be to vote for a third party or independent candidate that has no chance of winning. Then you would be announcing your dissatisfaction with the other choices.
    So akamai you two.
    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    Obama sure is having a hard time distancing himself from the man he's called pastor for over twenty years.
    Once again, if folks bring religion into the political arena, you get trouble. Separation of church and state --- keeps getting forgotten in the past few elections, don't you think?
    Quote Originally Posted by timkona View Post
    But for the O'Reilly Factor reporting on the pastor, you'd have never known about it from the dominating liberal bias in the media.
    I believe "Good Morning America" broke the story on March 13, in an expose by Brian Ross. O'Reilly's followup was on Friday.
    Last edited by Leo Lakio; March 18th, 2008 at 08:10 PM.

  19. #219
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    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    "Once again, if folks bring religion into the political arena, you get trouble. Separation of church and state --- keeps getting forgotten in the past few elections, don't you think?"

    No, I do not think anything is forgotten. People don't have to "bring" religion into anything for this to work against Obama. The separation of church and state was written soon after our founders had fled England trying to force compliance of a certain church, as I recall. This was therefore written in the context of freedom from the state dictating religion, not written to take away any mention of religious belief within the govt. The proof of this is that God is even mentioned by name on our currency, and mentions of religion, so I am told are written in stone on some of our Federal buildings in DC, etc.

    Folks aren't bringing religion into an arena. Folks are simply reacting to something that bothers them and well it should. Religion in the truest sense is not something that can BE "separated" from other subjects within a person. Religion is simply one category in a multi-faceted person. Religious beliefs are a person's personal basis for what they do, think, feel and their reasons for it. It's an entire life philosophy and religion is mingled within that philosophy, so to suggest that someone "separate" it from their other beliefs is actually silly.

    Obama's religious beliefs are part of what make him who and what he is. They cannot be and no one should try to "separate" the man's religious beliefs from every other belief he has. He has been a member of this church for 20yrs? I think that's what is reported and he isn't an old fart....this is a huge part of his life, his wife's and now his children. Nothing about it should be separated from anything else about him. He's a multi-faceted person and this is a big part of him.

    Thank goodness people are talking about this inflammatory rhetoric of the man that he has called his pastor for so long. It does matter. A lot.

  20. #220

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Quote Originally Posted by timkona View Post
    But for the O'Reilly Factor reporting on the pastor, you'd have never known about it from the dominating liberal bias in the media.

    I think it's all so funny.
    "But for the O'Reilly Factor?"

    Obviously, someone hasn't been watching CNN today.

    Pastor Jeremiah Wright and Obama's speech has been their biggest news story today, by far. It also lead off the evening news broadcasts of all the major networks.

    Maybe it would be more accurate to say that somebody's channel is stuck on Fox News?
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  21. #221

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    Religion is simply one category in a multi-faceted person. Religious beliefs are a person's personal basis for what they do, think, feel and their reasons for it. It's an entire life philosophy and religion is mingled within that philosophy, so to suggest that someone "separate" it from their other beliefs is actually silly.
    Unless a politician announces that they intend to use it as the guiding force for how they will govern, said politician's religion should not be a factor in the discussion of their merits for political office.

  22. #222
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    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Leo, thanks for continuing dialogue here. Man! I gotta take your message to task and of course I have no reason to dislike or disrespect you. now...

    HOW on earth can you say this and mean it?? First place....since when did a politician TELL US....oh so many things of how they mean to lead, or not? I mean they say things, they say what we want to hear and makes them look good, but you really trust ANY of them to not only tell only the truth but to mean it and not leave out.....what could be called "lies of omission??" I don't! not either side of the aisle.....first and foremost they

    want to get elected!

    Their religion darn sure should matter a ton, and it is good and right that in Obama's case, it does and is such a big issue.

    Religion is a huge part of any person that has any. Emphasis on the word "huge" there. When electing the leader of a powerful and important country you bet we should care about that person, what makes them tick and where they are coming from. You can't dissect a person and only think that certain parts of them will matter to their leadership, them having their finger on the nuclear button, etc.

    We care about their health and how dare we? we want their tax returns, how dare we? We'd be fools not to. They should have to EARN our trust and respect and most of all, our vote.

    Personally, my religion isn't just things that came from my grandma or a book called "bible." All of my beliefs, points of view, philosophies and parameters I set for myself and others are part of my religion and my religion, the bible part is part of them, as it is my own foundation for my life. ALL of my beliefs are my religion, in total....not just the bible part.

    Yeah, religion matters...everything does, and unlike you it appears it matters to most people, as it should...in my opinion, of course.

  23. #223

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Hi back atcha, Karen. Knowing we'd be in disagreement on this, I'm okay with that.

    Note that I purposely used the words "should not," when in reality, I know that they do in the present day. "Should not" is aspirational to me. I still hope for the day that we discuss, debate, dissect and select our governmental leaders based on their records of political performance, and that other aspects of their character, upbringing, gender, religion, race and sexual preference are not the primary factors for discussion.

    I would like to see the day where we no longer make a big deal over "the first African-American...," "the first female...," "the first Asian-American...," "the first gay..." public figures.

    Were you around in the days John F. Kennedy was running for President? Do you know of the stories that were bandied about as to how he would supposedly make decisions of national interest based on how the Pope was going to tell him to act, since he was a practicing Catholic? It made me uncomfortable to see the same kinds of statements, nearly half a century later, made about Mitt Romney's Mormon faith, and how his church would supposedly control his governing style.

    You made note that all of your beliefs, points of view, philosophies and parameters are part of your religion. I suspect that means that your ministers and pastors, while providing one source of guidance in your life, do not have control over what you say, do, think or believe. Yet you seem to feel that Rev. Wright has such an influential say over Barack Obama.

    Lastly, you are correct in that religion matters to most people in this country. But remember that doesn't mean the same religion to all people - the people of this nation need to remember that the freedom we value so highly includes a freedom to be respected for any religious beliefs that are not mainstream/majority Christian, or even a freedom from religion. (A recent survey released by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life shows that those unaffiliated with religious groups and ideology now represent 16.1% of the population.)

  24. #224
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    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Hey again, Leo and thanks for your continuing without the 'ole ruffled feathers that some egoes can't help when disagreeing. You rock, well...we do.

    I am 51 so yeah, I remember but from a young age so I wasn't paying attention to details, being a kid. I can, however believe people worried how the pope would affect him because....I do understand very well how back in the sixties and before....leaders were respected and followed way too much without question. Like doctors and lawyers....they were treated as icons and people didn't seem....to even think to QUESTION whether these degreed folks were always right or not, especially docs. Second opinion? LOL did that term even "get coined" officially before the seventies? not sure....and can only hope it's making my point here.

    No, I don't feel Wright has that much sway over Obama. I don't know....if he does, or not. No, lemme say this better, foggy here with my first cup of tea/caffeine. I don't worry if Wright has any sway so much as I "worry" that Obama not revolting at wright and having distanced himself from the obnoxious rhetoric long ago....this TELLS US something about obama that is independent from the subject of "Swaying." does that make sense?

    I literally could not stomach Wright's rhetoric, sit there and show him support and respect, nor could I be honored to have him baptize my own precious daughters and this goes for an "opposite of wright" if there be some in the pulpit. EXTREMISM is sort of like a type of mental/emotional illness and nothing less.

    Obama is seeing Wright's Extremism "bite him, Obama in the butt" so to speak and so it should be. He, Obama is having to answer for having been a member of wright's teachings and supporting THAT.

    What we support, respect, even financially support, embrace and wow....PUT BEFORE OUR KIDS.....tells something about us.

    What...does it tell us about Obama? how can we know for sure? and yes, He is wanting to be the President of the United States so this matters a lot more than what it would say about you and me.

  25. #225

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    No, lemme say this better...
    I believe you just did, and thank you.

    We all have people and experiences in our lives, in our pasts and presents, that would cause us embarassment (at the very least) were we being publicly vetted to the degree of someone desiring political office. That's probably why most of us don't run for office (except timkona - and I've given him kudos for making the effort).

    Senator Obama has come across as pretty clean by comparison thus far this political season; some would argue that he has little public record to critique, hence the "lack of experience" argument of his opponents. As far as scandalous behavior goes, I find it a bit of a stretch that the worst anyone has dug up so far into the campaign is that his long-time pastor makes offensive statements. Is that the best dirt anyone can find? If so, he's a more admirable candidate than I previously thought (and he is my preferred candidate at this point in the game; he wasn't always, and may not always be, but at present, yes).

    It's bound to get nastier than that, before this is all over.

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