The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

I think it's time to embrace the name and use it freely in an effort to make everyone comfortable with it and not fearful. So, from now on I will refer to Obama as BHO rather than BO.

I think the writer of that Time online article was either being naive,... or had an ulterior motive in mind.

Yes, there would appear to be nothing wrong or offensive in using Barrack Obama's middle name. But in the midst of heatedly political campaign, it would be naive to think that a candidate's middle name which happens to be associated with one of the most despised people of this past century wouldn't be a factor in inflaming the emotions of many voters. (Hey, Saddam isn't too far down the list from where Adolph Hitler and Pol Pot stand at the summit.)

Making matters worse was Bill Cunningham's disparaging refences to Obama's middle name. As a result, use of "Hussein" in reference to Obama has now come to be regarded as a campaign smear, even though it is, in fact, his middle name.

It's not dissimilar to the shortened term for "Japanese." On the surface, it would appear that there's nothing offensive about doing that, just as it is common to refer to British citizens as Brits. But because of the deragatory way that it was used towards Japanese-Americans in WWII, people now regard the use of J*p as a racial slur.

I wonder if that Time article writer actually had an anti-Obama agenda in mind when he wrote that piece. He can't be so naive as to think that at least some lesser educated/informed voters won't be swayed by campaign smears against Obama that use his middle name, conjuring up images of one of the biggest butchers in the world scene over the last 30 years.

[glossyp]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Yes, there would appear to be nothing wrong or offensive in using Barrack Obama's middle name. But in the midst of heatedly political campaign, it would be naive to think that a candidate's middle name which happens to be associated with one of the most despised people of this past century wouldn't be a factor in inflaming the emotions of many voters. (Hey, Saddam isn't too far down the list from where Adolph Hitler and Pol Pot stand at the summit.)

So how do we overcome this? Do we do it by pretending it doesn't exist or should we embrace it? I think we should tackle it head on. To do otherwise is to presume that the people of America are so simple minded that they can't/won't understand that it is only a name however much baggage it may carry.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

So how do we overcome this?

How do we overcome this? Maybe never. Not after the way Bill Cunningham used Obama's middle name to degrade and slander him.

More than 60 years after WWII, "J*p" is still considered a slur. More than 140 years after slavery in America ended, calling an African-American adult male "boy" is still considered a derogatory term. So I don't think the sensitivity surrounding the use of Obama's middle name is going to fade away anytime soon, if ever. Nathan Thornburgh and others like him can obtusely argue all they want about this issue, but they aren't going to get much support. Least of all from John McCain.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

“Now one of Clinton’s laws of politics is this: If one candidate’s trying to scare you and the other one’s trying to get you to think, if one candidate’s appealing to your fears and the other one’s appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope.” -- Bill Clinton, 2004

It reminds me of the little girl/mushroom cloud ads used against Goldwater by Johnson back in the 1964 presidential election. It aired only once, yet is still considered controversial as well as effective. (Do internet searches for "daisy ad" if you wish more details.)

Making matters worse was Bill Cunningham's disparaging refences to Obama's middle name.

Not after the way Bill Cunningham used Obama's middle name to degrade and slander him.

The NPR piece referenced above was an interview with Cunningham, where he played dumb about the controversy (even though he also called Sen. Obama "Barack Hussein Mohammed Obama" in earlier broadcasts, claiming that he got that info from "an internet site").

[oceanpacific]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Truthfully, Obama's middle name is irrelevant ..........

[glossyp]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

The harshest piece I've seen regarding BHO and his motivations is at Asia Times and written by "Spengler" a pseudonym for some unknown, but prolific, columnist. In this article "Spengler" contends that BHO hates America and points to his mother and his wife as the significant influences in this regard. A sample:

Barack Obama is a clever fellow who imbibed hatred of America with his mother's milk, but worked his way up the elite ladder of education and career. He shares the resentment of Muslims against the encroachment of American culture, although not their religion. He has the empathetic skill set of an anthropologist who lives with his subjects, learns their language, and elicits their hopes and fears while remaining at emotional distance. That is, he is the political equivalent of a sociopath. The difference is that he is practicing not on a primitive tribe but on the population of the United States.

There is nothing mysterious about Obama's methods. "A demagogue tries to sound as stupid as his audience so that they will think they are as clever as he is," wrote Karl Krauss. Americans are the world's biggest suckers, and laugh at this weakness in their popular culture. Listening to Obama speak, Sinclair Lewis' cynical tent-revivalist Elmer Gantry comes to mind, or, even better, Tyrone Power's portrayal of a carnival mentalist in the 1947 film noire Nightmare Alley. The latter is available for instant viewing at Netflix, and highly recommended as an antidote to having felt uplifted by an Obama speech.

America has the great misfortune to have encountered Obama at the peak of his powers at its worst moment of vulnerability in a generation. With malice aforethought, he has sought out their sore point.

Read the entire piece here.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

The harshest piece I've seen regarding BHO and his motivations is at Asia Times and written by "Spengler" a pseudonym for some unknown, but prolific, columnist. In this article "Spengler" contends that BHO hates America and points to his mother and his wife as the significant influences in this regard.

I've just got 2 things to say to that:

1) Beware of any writer who claims to "reveal" the secrets and truths about somebody else, when they themselves cowardly hide behind a psuedonym and thus evading any responsibility or accountability for what they write.

2) The anti-Obama faction must be getting desperate now, resorting to this kind of propaganda. But the attempts of these folks to assassinate the character of Obama actually sheds more light on their own character, or lack of it. As he gets closer and closer to achieving the Presidency, I fear to say that such attacks will only get worse. What's next? Is someone going to share articles from a Neo-Nazi website? Or disseminate scans from a KKK leaflet?

Sad and pathetic.

[glossyp]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

I've just got 2 things to say to that:

1) Beware of any writer who claims to "reveal" the secrets and truths about somebody else, when they themselves cowardly hide behind a psuedonym and thus evading any responsibility or accountability for what they write.

2) The anti-Obama faction must be getting desperate now, resorting to this kind of propaganda. But the attempts of these folks to assassinate the character of Obama actually sheds more light on their own character, or lack of it. As he gets closer and closer to achieving the Presidency, I fear to say that such attacks will only get worse. What's next? Is someone going to share articles from a Neo-Nazi website? Or disseminate scans from a KKK leaflet?

Sad and pathetic.

You make a semi-reasonable first point though I would contend that the writer (who I suspect is British or Australian) is addressing matters to consider that the American press never will. The writer shares his opinion on how BHO became like he is; it is an opinon. Pro-Obamaites can refute these comments, if they care to, and posit why they think they are inaccurate or wrong.

I consider the article a very non-rose-colored-glasses analysis of the candidate. It's a convenient tack to equate such a piece to Neo-Nazi and/or KKK propaganda as most people are simply terrified of being accused of racism or bigotry. I think BHO and his handlers are counting on this irrationale fear to avoid the hard questions we should be asking of someone who wants to be president.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

I consider the article a very non-rose-colored-glasses analysis of the candidate.

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But it is far from a universal one. Not when this nameless writer goes to extremes like saying that Barrack Obama "hates America." Not when it says that Michelle Obama "bitch-slaps her husband in public." You find such statements to be "a very non-rose-colored-glasses analysis" of Barrack Obama? Well, as I said in my previous posts, such statements says infinitely more about the character of the writer than it does about his/her target. Also says a mouthful about anyone who would find merit in it.

It's a convenient tack to equate such a piece to Neo-Nazi and/or KKK propaganda as most people are simply terrified of being accused of racism or bigotry. I think BHO and his handlers are counting on this irrationale fear to avoid the hard questions we should be asking of someone who wants to be president.

Oh, this is rich, your saying that I'm using "fear." That whole article you linked to in the first place uses nothing but fear in a desperate attempt to assassinate Obama's personal background and his family. The article itself tells readers, "Be afraid - be very afraid." And I notice that the writer does not cite a single campaign/policy issue in his/her entire diatribe. Instead, the article hangs its hat on the notion that Obama's upbringing and his choice of a spouse equates to him secretly hating and planning to destroy this country.

I stand behind my comparing this piece of propaganda to the stuff that Neo-Nazis and KKKs would eat up. OTOH Glossyp, if you find merit in it and you want to defend it, then by all means.

[glossyp]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Perhaps the best way to describe why I think it is important to consider the personal lives/histories/experiences of presidential candidates of whatever party is to look at all of them.

Do I think about whether John McCain's experiences in a Viet Cong prison camp for five years will have an impact on his judgement as president? Yes.

Do I think about whether HRC being willingly married to (and defending) a philanderer and possible rapist for years might have a potential impact on her judgement as president? Yes.

Do I think about whether being abandoned by his father and and marrying a woman who is eager to "bitch slap" (imo, a perfect description of what she did, regardless of how you might view it) him in public might have a potential impact on his judgement as president? Yes.

The questions raised by Spengler about BHO's motivation may upset you, but they address fundamental questions about who he is, where he comes from and why he is running for president. I think those matters are important, not fear inducing, unlike throwing around the phrases "Neo-Nazi" and "KKK" in a not-so-subtle attempt to discredit those who are asking questions.

In my opinion, given what we've had over the past several years, there are no questions which are out of bounds when it comes to those who are running for president - especially someone like BHO who is a relative newcomer on the political scene. I want to know more. Sorry, if that disturbs you.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Sorry, if that disturbs you.

No need to apologize. Don't worry about disturbing my sensibilities. As I already said, with every day that Obama comes closer to the Presidency, the attacks, smears, and mudslinging will get worse. I'm prepared for that.

And if you want to continue posting links to these sleazy articles, that's up to you. It's your credibility and reputation (not Obama's) that's going to be damaged here the most.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

With all the mud flinging between Obama and Hillary going on, when the winner takes the nomination, I wonder if one will tell his/her backers to support the very one they despise?

Even here in Hawaii, those who voted in the Democratic caucases indicated their support for Obama despite Senator Daniel Inouye's superdelate positioning in favor of Clinton. So will Inouye still support Clinton or will he heed the voice of the majority of the Democratic voters to change his perception and go with Obama? Inouye has been very quiet lately.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Even here in Hawaii, those who voted in the Democratic caucases indicated their support for Obama despite Senator Daniel Inouye's superdelate positioning in favor of Clinton. So will Inouye still support Clinton or will he heed the voice of the majority of the Democratic voters to change his perception and go with Obama? Inouye has been very quiet lately.

Inouye, quiet? I guess you missed the story about our senior senator putting his foot in his mouth.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...802260354.html

As much as I do support Obama's nomination, I have to say that it is Inouye's prerogative to use his superdelegate vote as he sees fit. After all, what would be the point of having the superdelegate process if they had to automatically follow the results of their respective state's caucus/primary. But if Clinton drops out before the DNC takes place, Inouye's support for Hillary would be moot anyway.

[Vanguard]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Hillary's alleged new strategy for winning in Texas? Have her supporters show up to the caucuses early and take control of the sign-in sheets, locking out the more numerous Obama's voters

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

It would not be surprising if the Clinton campaign is making a concerted play for the caucus vote in Texas. As the link below states, the districts which are likely to favor Obama in the Texas primary are awarded a higher number of delegates than those that are leaning towards Clinton.

http://www.lufkindailynews.com/hp/co..._two_step.html

The important thing to keep in mind here: Clinton is already 100+ delegates behind in the overall national count. She can't just win Texas and Ohio by a narrow margin. She needs to win those states by huge margins if she hopes to make a sizable dent in Obama's lead. And since the poll numbers are so close now, it doesn't appear as if either of them will win those delegate rich states by a landslide.