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Thread: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

  1. #1

    Default The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Well, the 5 month primary process is over. Obama is now the presumptive Democratic nominee. It is now Obama vs. McCain.

    With the Presidential race entering a new phase and with the "chapter 2" thread having been inactive for some time now, I was just wondering if now might be a good time to close that thread and to begin chapter 3?
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  2. #2
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    Red face Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Works for me!

    Of course, while the conventional wisdom is that Obama's clinched it, Clinton's non-concession speech (a flat, calculating composition versus Obama's victory speech) has folks wondering whether she really will drag things out until the convention.

    Of course, folks have been saying for weeks that Clinton's actually just looking for a good time to bow out on a high-note... reports that sound like a little bit of wishful thinking on the part of some media outlets. The latest "scoop" is that she's going to quit on Saturday.

    Is she angling for a VP slot? Sounds like. Part of me thinks this "Dream Ticket" is the only surefire way to win back the White House... but that mixing Obama with Clinton will ultimately be a toxic move that'll leave most with a bad taste in their mouths.

    Who else would be a good veep to Obama? John Edwards?

    Meanwhile... how are the VP prospects looking for McCain? Gov. Charlie Crist of Florida, Gov. Bobby Jindal of Louisiana, and Mitt Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts are on the shortlist...

  3. #3
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    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by pzarquon View Post

    Of course, while the conventional wisdom is that Obama's clinched it, Clinton's non-concession speech (a flat, calculating composition versus Obama's victory speech) has folks wondering whether she really will drag things out until the convention.
    oh geez!

    in 1980, ted kennedy took his campaign for the presidency all the way to the democratic national convention floor--which, let me remind you, was in mid-august of that year. he was behind jimmy carter by about a thousand delegates. compare that one thousand to clinton's being behind by about 225. yet several months ago, kennedy had the hypocritical audacity to announce that clinton should quit. pfft!

    kennedy, to his credit, just a day after finally conceding, gave a rousing keynote speech that electrified the convention's audience. text and audio of kennedy's speech here. i recommend reading/listening to it--that speech certainly resonates today.

    additionally, people make much ado about the clintons not being able to handle that their time has come and gone. i say, far from it! i say, you merely need to consider the kennedys. despite ted's failed presidential candidacy, his (family's) influence remained a guiding hand on the DNC for decades. no one could deny that there would not have been an obama if there had not been a clinton. despite pronouncements about her being a bitch, a shrew, a crybaby, a nutcracker, ballbreaker, and reminiscent of a nagging first wife, i forsee sen. clinton skillfully becoming a catalyst--as kennedy did, 28 years ago--to mend whatever hurts there might be within the party.

    so let me ask y'all this--why was it okay that kennedy did what he did, but when clinton does it (and the margin between her and obama is about a quarter as twas between kennedy and carter), she is excoriated for it?
    superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

    "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

    nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

  4. #4

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by pzarquon View Post
    Of course, folks have been saying for weeks that Clinton's actually just looking for a good time to bow out on a high-note... reports that sound like a little bit of wishful thinking on the part of some media outlets. The latest "scoop" is that she's going to quit on Saturday.
    The reports say that in a conference call that Clinton had with most of her superdelegate supporters in Congress today, they were not pleased with her speech on Tuesday, which was seen as being ungracious to Obama on what should have been a historic night for him to enjoy. And they let her know it in no uncertain terms. Any thoughts that the Clinton camp had about carrying on into next week with the support of those congress members was dashed and they want her to shut it down by Saturday at the latest.

    Quote Originally Posted by pzarquon View Post
    Is she angling for a VP slot? Sounds like. Part of me thinks this "Dream Ticket" is the only surefire way to win back the White House... but that mixing Obama with Clinton will ultimately be a toxic move that'll leave most with a bad taste in their mouths.
    I personally don't think Obama needs Clinton to win the electoral map.

    BTW, Obama announced a 3 person search team for his running mate. (One of whom is Caroline Kennedy.) While the final decision will no doubt remain Obama's, it does divorce him from the vetting process that this search team will apply to screening out the unsuitable candidates. One thing that this search team might use to eliminate Hillary from consideration is getting Bill to reveal the list of donors to his presidential library and the WJC Foundation. A list that, for whatever reason, the Clintons have kept close to the vest.

    Quote Originally Posted by pzarquon View Post
    Who else would be a good veep to Obama? John Edwards?

    Meanwhile... how are the VP prospects looking for McCain? Gov. Charlie Crist of Florida, Gov. Bobby Jindal of Louisiana, and Mitt Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts are on the shortlist...
    Let the veepstakes now BEGIN!!!
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  5. #5

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    Let the veepstakes now BEGIN!!!
    My top choice at this point would be New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    I think Virginia Senator, Jim Webb would be the best choice.
    But I could be happy with Hillary as well.

  7. #7

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by pzarquon View Post
    Who else would be a good veep to Obama? John Edwards?
    Wesley Clark
    Pros: Powerful military credentials
    Cons: Brash reputation may negate McCain's reputation for having a temper.

    Bill Richardson
    Pros: Executive experience (Gov of NM), UN Ambassador = strong foreign policy credit
    Cons: Double minority ticket may be too much for most to handle

    Kathleen Sebelius
    Pros: Executive Experience (Gov of Kansas), two time democratic governor of traditionally republican state, woman politician with proven credentials
    Cons: Insufficient name recognition, lost opportunity to find someone with foreign policy credits

    No Ménage-à-trois for Obama.

    It seems a primary contention Hillary's well televised supporters have with Obama is that he "stole" the election. I wonder where all these people were when George W won in 2000 via electoral college votes?

    Does anyone think that Lingle might be on McCain's list for VP candidates?
    Last edited by Vanguard; June 5th, 2008 at 12:04 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    Bill Richardson
    Pros: Executive experience (Gov of NM), UN Ambassador = strong foreign policy credit
    Cons: Double minority ticket may be too much for most to handle
    ... and member of the House of Representatives, and Secretary of Energy, so he also has Congressional and Cabinet experience.

    It would be interesting to see how many people would consider it a con to be a "double-minority" ticket, a point that the GOP could exploit as "not representing a majority of Americans." The fact that the Democratic nominee was, for a long time, going to be either a woman or an African-American, may represent a long-overdue shift in American political perspectives.

  9. #9

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Good points, Leo Lakio!

    One point about Obama-Richardson;

    They wouldn't only be a "double minority ticket", but they'd also be a double multiracial ticket. It's something we as current and former Kama'aina are well-acquainted with, but I'm not sure if it's even something most Americans preceive. It seems to most, Obama is simply black, and Richardson is simply hispanic. And the multiracial America is growing impressively, see this article.

    Also, an unlikely, but good match-up (IMO):

    Chuck Hagel
    Pros: Strong, anti-war republican senator who distanced himself from the Bush administration would make for a great unity ticket
    Cons: Two senators on the same ticket, both without executive experience, would be a glaring negative
    Last edited by Vanguard; June 5th, 2008 at 12:37 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    [...]
    Does anyone think that Lingle might be on McCain's list for VP candidates?
    Must admit this crossed my mind for a fleeting second but not based on qualifications; rather, on how mind blowing it might be to have 2 people with such strong Hawaii ties running for the top 2 positions at the same time!

  11. #11

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    I think tutusue's avatar would have a better shot at the VP spot.

    Gosh..., I hope I don't have to appologize for that too...

  12. #12

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Hagel's name has been bandied about. Selecting him would certainly put an exclamation point on the idea of Obama's administration truly being bi-partisan. But putting him on the ticket will probably be seen as too big a gamble. After the very tough primary battle, Obama needs to pick a VP who will do his/her part to unite the Democrats. A cabinet position might be a more realistic prospect for Hagel.

    It's true that an Obama/Richardson ticket would be a dual-minority one. I don't see why that would be any less viable than an Afro-American/female ticket, which is what an Obama/Clinton pairing would be.

    I still strongly believe that Obama will benefit most from someone who can deliver votes from him in the South, like Richardson, Clark, or Webb. If not, then it will have to be someone who can carry a big battleground state, like Ed Rendell (Pennsylvania governor) or Ted Strickland (Ohio governor).
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    The Dem side of this election is kinda like watching a plane crash in slow motion replay. You know the outcome already, but you keep hoping for them poor suckers to live through it. The funny part is that the next load of passengers will just get on the same plane thinking it might end differently. Perhaps Obama should pick McCain as his VP?

    dang i crack me up.
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    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
    I think tutusue's avatar would have a better shot at the VP spot.

    Gosh..., I hope I don't have to appologize for that too...
    <sniff>
    .
    .
    .
    .


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    Lightbulb Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    Wesley Clark
    Pros: Powerful military credentials
    Cons: Brash reputation may negate McCain's reputation for having a temper.
    I understand what you are saying regarding Wes’ “brash reputation,” but I think he has come a long way since 2004 election. Frankly, I don't think you can deny his foreign policy credentials even against a war hero like Jim Webb. Gen. Clark is the 4-star general who led the last successful U.S. military campaign in Kosovo. He also ran a multi-state campaign for U.S. President before bowing out, so he at least been somewhat vetted.

    Frankly, I believe Wes is the smartest candidate among all the VP hopefuls, and would shore up Obama’s weaknesses - in addition to being a top adviser for Hillary's now-defunct campaign, and thus represent an “Olive branch” to the Clintonistas. I think Obama gets the best of Hillary’s leadership team with Clark, and he can further placate her supporters by appointing her to the Supreme Court.

    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
    USA TODAY, page 2A
    11 March 1993

  17. #17

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
    I understand what you are saying regarding Wes’ “brash reputation,” but I think he has come a long way since 2004 election.
    Agreed. I for one would be happy with an Obama/Clark match-up. I'm hoping the fact that he's come a long way will shine strongly if he's picked.

    Jon Stewart mocks "Hillary is inevitable" pandits. Ah, 2007 -- the time when Hillary vs. Giuliani made me want to Ralph

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    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Hillary Clinton as a Supreme Court Justice.........

    I'm so crackin up.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3


  20. #20

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Now that the page has finally been turned on the Clintons, the new sheriff in town is leaving his imprint on the Democratic Party.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080606/...emocrats_money

    WASHINGTON - The Democratic National Committee, now operating under Barack Obama's fundraising rules, on Friday returned about $100,000 in money from lobbyists and political action committees.

    The donations were already "in the pipeline" when Obama, the presumed Democratic presidential nominee, instituted the standards for the committee, a party official said.

    Obama imposed the rules to avoid a conflict with his own ban on money from federal lobbyists and PACs. On Thursday he sent one of his top strategists to the DNC to help with its general election operation.

    Republican John McCain does accept money from lobbyists and PACs as does the Republican National Committee and other party committees.


    So both the Obama and the DNC will no longer be accepting money from lobbyists and PACs. I wonder if McCain and the Republicans will rise up to meeting that challenge?

    OH HO!!! Silly me! If McCain does that, a huge chunk of his campaign staff will be walking out on him.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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    Lightbulb Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    I wonder if McCain and the Republicans will rise up to meeting that challenge? ... If McCain does that, a huge chunk of his campaign staff will be walking out on him.
    Frankly, John McCain has more fundamental things to worry about, when nearly the entire Fox News anchor team rips his victory speech. If you’ve watched the actual June 3 McCain oration you can understand how even Faux Noise couldn’t find a kind word for the GOP presumptive nominee. I couldn’t even watch the whole speech, it was so painful! He would do well to find a VP who’s a more polished speaker, and have that person do most of the talking for the rest of the campaign. My prediction is 2008 will set a record for write-ins on the Republican ballot. (Go Ron Paul!)

    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
    USA TODAY, page 2A
    11 March 1993

  22. #22

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Will Ron Paul be this election's Ralph Nader, the "spoiler" candidate that will be blamed for the loss of a major party's candidate?

    Will enough Republicans who dislike Sen. McCain actually refuse to vote for their party's man, thus giving the White House to a Democrat?

    And ... what does "Anybody But Obama" Scrivener have to say these days? Will he support the Libertarian candidate, former Georgia Republican Representative (and Clinton impeachment "manager") Bob Barr?

    Answers coming this fall.

  23. #23

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
    Frankly, John McCain has more fundamental things to worry about,
    More fundamental than trying to keep up with Obama in fundraising? Money is the lifeblood of any presidential campaign. So far, McCain has raised $115 million. Obama? More than double, at $264 million. And that figure doesn't even include the month of May, while McCain's figure does. With this significant monetary advantage, Obama's campaign could proceed with a 50 state strategy that would force McCain to spend his more limited funds where he doesn't want to (i.e. buying media advertising time in traditionally red states just to protect the GOP's base.)

    Quote Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
    If you’ve watched the actual June 3 McCain oration you can understand how even Faux Noise couldn’t find a kind word for the GOP presumptive nominee. I couldn’t even watch the whole speech, it was so painful! He would do well to find a VP who’s a more polished speaker, and have that person do most of the talking for the rest of the campaign.
    Problem is,... you can't have your veep candidate doing most of the talking and overshadowing the lead man on the ticket. It's only going to make McCain appear even weaker as a leader and standard bearer of his party. McCain's only hope of winning in November would be to appeal to independent voters who are looking for a strong and experienced commander-in-chief figure to be their President. And having someone like Mitt Romney or Mike Huckabee doing most of the talking for McCain isn't going to impress those voters.

    The town hall forums that McCain's campaign has proposed is a good idea for their candidate. As you yourself alluded to, McCain just does not possess the oratory skills and physical presence on the podium that Obama has in spades. A town hall format would be more informal and spontaneous, which could help McCain. Or it could hurt,... if McCain starts slipping up on his facts. But the town hall setting at least gives McCain a fighting chance.
    Last edited by Frankie's Market; June 8th, 2008 at 06:12 PM.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  24. #24

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    McCain just does not possess the oratory skills and physical presence on the podium that Obama has in spades.
    Didn't seem to matter in Bush II vs. Kerry.

  25. #25

    Default Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
    Didn't seem to matter in Bush II vs. Kerry.
    Geez. If you can't recognize the stark differences in voter mood between 2004 and '08,....
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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