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Thread: Digital TV Over The Air

  1. #101

    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    Quote Originally Posted by mel View Post
    I am angry at the environmentalists and some of the scientists with observatories at the top of Haleakala for forcing the TV broadcasters off the mountain ... The thing is that the broadcasters were there FIRST! For more than 50 years nobody made a big stink about the birds. Sheesh... birds win out over the viewing public? Give me a break.

    Of course the same kind of groups who oppose towers are the ones that oppose the Superferry and astronomy on the Big Island.
    Macpro - I meant to email you the day of the n/c w/the LG, FCC but time got away from me.

    Due to my delay, I wish to now thank you PUBLICLY for asking the question about some communities' loss of signal. Had you not asked, it would not have appeared (exclusively, I think) in the Star-Bulletin's coverage.

    Thank you for bringing the issue to the fore!
    **************************************
    I know a lot less than what there is to be known.

  2. #102
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    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    Latest update of DTV channels I receive (Ewa Beach):
    2.1 KHON-HD
    2.2 KHON-CW
    4.1 KITV-HD
    4.2 Weather
    4.3 KITV-SD (No programming)
    5.1 KFVE-DT
    9.1 KGMB-DT (Poor reception, have to watch the analog signal to avoid the dropouts)
    13.1 KHNL-DT
    13.2 NBC WX+
    14.1 KWHE-DT
    20.1 KIKU-DT
    66.1 ION
    66.2 qubo
    66.3 IONlife
    66.4 Worship

    In addition, 11 KHET (analog) has returned with much distortion.
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    I am in Los Angeles this week. The hotel where I am staying has installed Olevia televisions mounted on the wall with double combination locks to avoid theft--thought that this is a sign of the times here-- and is using a hybrid system that brings in the analog and HD signals over the air and satellite signals through a dish onsite. During the two days that the rain/snow was impacting Southern California during periods of mid to heavy rain the HD signals would disappear leaving a "no signal" message on the screen. I mention this because it is going to be a pain to miss portions of programs due to rain out..I guess that it is the same issue that effects Dish and Direct TV reception during weather events. Makes one wonder how/why this was not considered and why an IBOC (in band oin channel) system could not have been developed allowing the digital signal to always default to an analog signal...just as in FM IBOC.

  4. #104

    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    Quote Originally Posted by salmoned View Post
    If we're supposedly 'ready' for switching to digital broadcast early, why do I lose some digital stations every time it rains (not just heavy rain as yesterday)? I lost KFVE, KGMB and KHET yesterday (KFVE & KHET are still blank today).
    Are you still using the "Rusty old rabbit ears, elevated to second floor ceiling level, parallel to window frame."? If so, my guess is that's not good enough any longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by maximumradio
    During the two days that the rain/snow was impacting Southern California during periods of mid to heavy rain the HD signals would disappear leaving a "no signal" message on the screen. I mention this because it is going to be a pain to miss portions of programs due to rain out..I guess that it is the same issue that effects Dish and Direct TV reception during weather events.
    "Rain fade" affects microwave signals, especially those above 5 GHz., not VHF/UHF signals to any degree. The signals used by Dish/DTV reception are 12.2-12.7 -Gigahertz-, whereas VHF/UHF signals are at least a factor of 10 lower, ~50-800 Megahertz.

    Did the "no signal" screen give any other indications of what box was generating the message?

    --Michael

  5. #105

    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    Quote Originally Posted by mike View Post
    Michael,
    if the bar is in Kahului you should have absolutely no problems in seeing the digital signals.
    Mike
    Cool...last year when I was on the roof, I could 'see' PRG's 199ft. tower visually.

    I'm curious about the actual date/time of the cutover.

    The website, http://www.dtv.gov/Hawaii/index.html says, "Hawai'i will transition at 12 noon on January 15, 2009.", but a mailing I received today from Oceanic says the switch will happen at "midnight on January 15, 2009".

    That 4WD road up to the new site is kinda' fun in the daytime, but I don't think I'd enjoy it as much at night.<g>

    --Michael

  6. #106
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    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    Finally, KHET reception is back, clear as a bell (so it must have been a broadcasting problem - my set-up certainly hasn't changed). I bought a converter box that indicates signal strength, so now I can try 'optimize' my rusty rabbit ears.
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

  7. #107

    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    Michael,
    The conversion will be 12 noon on January 15th.
    Mike

  8. #108
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    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    What kind of antenna are you guys running? And can you point out your physical location (general area), too?

    I live in Foster Village and I'm running a Terk amplified indoor antenna.

    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1051384457031

    I get average results, similar to what is reported in Ewa Beach. KGMB's signal sux. Others are not bad, occasionally dropping out. When my wife runs the microwave oven, the signal drops on the TV.

    I hope Oceanic starts providing the basic OTA digital channels over basic cable (which is what we have). I hope they don't expect me to give them more money to add to receive what I can get over the air for free. (They do have a few now, KHON, KHNL, KHWE, and a bunch of home shopping/garbage stuff.)

    78 home shopping channels on Oceanic Cable don't mean spit to me. I watch the 5 major loca stations via Oceanic. I rarely watch other cable programming, other than the Discovery Channel. I look forward to receiving digital signals from all OTA stations over Oceanic's basic cable, soon.

    If it doesn't happen, I may need to switch on my antenna full-time, discontinue cable, maybe invest in some bigger antenna iron for my home along with distribution amplifier.
    Make trouble, have fun, do good stuffs.

  9. #109

    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    "I hope Oceanic starts providing the basic OTA digital channels over basic cable (which is what we have)."

    They do. Oceanic has been transmitting the local channel's HD signals for over a year already, on basic cable (No digital box needed). However, Oceanic will never tell you that. Your TV's tuner must have the ATSC/QAM digital tuner built in. Hook up the basic cable straight to your TV and have your TV do an auto search for channels. Off the top of my head:

    KHNL-HD 83.3
    KHON-HD 85.3
    CW (KHON)-digital (not HD) 85.4
    KFVE-HD 110.1
    KGMB-HD 113.1
    KITV-HD 114.2
    KHET-HD 120.12

    Recently, Oceanic has put up digital channels (not HD) of KIKU, KWHE, KAAH, KPXO & KWBN, on the basic cable. What I do is a re-map of the channels (auto channel search) on my TV, once a week. Oceanic is always moving things around. KGMB-HD was at 99.1 for a long time, then one day it switched to 113.1. On average, their is about 35 digital channels available with your basic cable, connected straight to your TV.

    Aloha,
    DXer

  10. #110
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    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    KGMB is moving it's transmitter to Palehua Ridge as well as increasing it's power output when they move there so reception of their signal will improve.

    FWIW, KHNL and KFVE have also filed with the FCC to increase their power output as well which should impove reception for them as well. KHET will reuse it's channel 11 frequency after the DTV transistion date and should improve reception for them as well.

    As for Oceanic, if your only interested in the local channels you can downgrade to it's "lifeline" service, which they call "Basic", for about $15 a month. Oceanic will install a filter on your cable line that screens out most of the standard cable channels. On the analog side, you will get all the main local stations(KHON, KBFD, etc), the Olelo channels as well as a few other public interest channels and TBS. On the digital side if you TV has a QAM tuner the unencrypted digital channels that DXer mentions.
    Last edited by Ninja; December 30th, 2008 at 03:03 PM.

  11. #111
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    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    Quote Originally Posted by DXer View Post
    On average, their is about 35 digital channels available with your basic cable, connected straight to your TV.
    This is certainly good to know. So I gather if subscribers with digital TV sets have the correct tuners, they won't need to rent a cable card or worse, a digital set-top box?

    Are the OTA digital TV channels all you can get with the basic set-up? If so what is the monthly price for this most basic service?

    I could probably live without most of the cable TV channels. Getting the local news is about the most important thing on TV.

    Cable TV and regular network TV series these days are routinely shown on the web or available as boxed DVD sets not too long after they air. So it seems almost not necessary to get cable.

    The only reason why I need cable in urban HNL is because of degraded OTA signals blocked by buildings and other terrain.
    I'm still here. Are you?

  12. #112
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    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    How long need we wait until all the stations reset their DTV time signals? As of yesterday none were accurate.
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

  13. #113
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    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    Quote Originally Posted by DXer View Post
    "I hope Oceanic starts providing the basic OTA digital channels over basic cable (which is what we have)."

    KHNL-HD 83.3
    KHON-HD 85.3
    CW (KHON)-digital (not HD) 85.4
    KFVE-HD 110.1
    KGMB-HD 113.1
    KITV-HD 114.2
    KHET-HD 120.12

    DXer
    Followup:

    I've had 83.3, 85.3, 85.4 all along.

    I rescanned twice in the past 2 days and discovered that 110.1 was now showing up. But nothing above that. I was getting kgmb when it was 99.1 but have never seen it since. I typically rescan channels 3 times a week.

    I don't get 113.1, 114.2, 120.12 over Oceanic.

    I did pick up one additional Japanese/Chinese channel, don't know the station; and I picked up 2 audio program channels which broadcast a quick audio signal, then go silent.

    Weirdness.
    Make trouble, have fun, do good stuffs.

  14. #114
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    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    I'm very confused about all these channel numbers you folks are listing - I've never seen any of them. I'm getting a new HDTV tomorrow and am hooked up to Dish TV. Will I be seeing these channel numbers when I do the scanning or will it just stay the same as it is now? I have to admit I'm very ignorant about this stuff. I kind of feel like Jessica Simpson in that commercial last year where she says "I don't know what 1080I is, but I WANT it!"

  15. #115
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    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    Quote Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
    I'm very confused about all these channel numbers you folks are listing - I've never seen any of them. I'm getting a new HDTV tomorrow and am hooked up to Dish TV. Will I be seeing these channel numbers when I do the scanning or will it just stay the same as it is now? I have to admit I'm very ignorant about this stuff. I kind of feel like Jessica Simpson in that commercial last year where she says "I don't know what 1080I is, but I WANT it!"
    If you have Dish, the numbers will probably be different, but the channels will all be there. Just set up the TV, plug it in to the Dish cable, then scan for channels. It should find all available digital channels and you'll see them in the Dish channel guide.

    Whether you understand or not, you will LOVE it when you see that 1080p picture! You'll know, trust me!
    Make trouble, have fun, do good stuffs.

  16. #116
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    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    Quote Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
    I'm very confused about all these channel numbers you folks are listing - I've never seen any of them. I'm getting a new HDTV tomorrow and am hooked up to Dish TV. Will I be seeing these channel numbers when I do the scanning or will it just stay the same as it is now? I have to admit I'm very ignorant about this stuff. I kind of feel like Jessica Simpson in that commercial last year where she says "I don't know what 1080I is, but I WANT it!"
    What kind of Dish service do you have?
    Do you know the receiver type?

    I ask because most people in Hawaii only have a single dish(24 inch) here which is all in SD, not HD. In order to get HD service from Dish in Hawaii you need 2 dishes and an HD receiver.

    If you live on the south shore from Ewa to the top of Kaimuki you can probably get the local stations over-the-air. You get them by using an old fashioned "rabbit ear" antenna connected to the DTV tuner on the TV.

    When you scan for channels they will look slightly different then what you are normally use to.

    For Oahu the DTV channels are the following:

    2.1 KHON(FOX) HD
    2.2 KHON (CW Hawaii)
    4.1 KITV(ABC) HD
    4.2 Weather Now
    5.1 KFVE(My Network TV) HD
    9.1 KGMB(CBS) HD
    11.1 KHET(PBS Hawaii) HD
    11.2 PBS Kids
    13.1 KHNL(NBC) HD
    14.1 KWHE
    20.1 KIKU
    26.1 KAAH (TBN)
    26.2 The Church Channel
    26.3 JCTV
    26.4 Enlace USA
    26.5 Smile of a Child
    32.1 KBFD
    66.1 KPXO(ION)
    66.2 Qubo
    66.3 ION Life
    66.4 The Worship Channel

    the .1 channels are the main channels which simulcast the same programming as the analog stations. The .2, .3, etc. are subchannels that DT stations can add thanks to the efficiency of broadcasting digitally and are almost always SD.
    One last thing, when you scan for channels not all the channels may show up since the final transition hasn't occurred yet. Not all the channels are operating at full power or at it's final true channel.

    If any other questions don't hesitate to ask.
    Good Luck.

  17. #117
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    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    Thanks for the reply.

    I should have said I'm hooked up to Dish Network through my landlord. I will ask him tomorrow if I will be able to get the HD channels. His set-up is pretty new so maybe he has the right equipment.

    Isn't the TV the receiver? right now, I don't use any rabbit ears or other antenna. and Dish Network does get all the local channels.

    The new TV is to replace an older analog one. Actually, I think the changeover to digital signals is just my excuse to get a newer, bigger TV!
    Last edited by anapuni808; January 2nd, 2009 at 09:50 PM.

  18. #118
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    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    The Feds may be running out of funds for the coupon program. According to an article in today's StarBulletin, "Hawaii residents had made 50,206 requests for digital converter coupons as of last week. That is more than double the 23,000 households statewide using over-the-air TVs, Leonard said. Hawaii has 424,000 television households."

    Well er, I did get 2 coupons in the mail this week and already redeemed one. That box will have to be mailed to my mom since the coupon did not come in time for me to hand carry the box to the Big Island.

    I'll have my sister install the thing. My Mom is not very up to date with tech.

    I'll probably get a second box with the other coupon and hold it in storage. Never can tell when I'll quit Oceanic cable (only 10 episodes left of Battlestar Galactica on SciFi).

    I have to wonder if cable is really necessary even for crappy OTA broadcast receiving areas? Much of the news breaks on the internet, and most TV series and all movies get released to DVD.

    (Sorry no linking to flash ad infested SB site)
    Last edited by mel; January 3rd, 2009 at 12:28 PM.

  19. #119
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    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    Quote Originally Posted by mel View Post
    The Feds may be running out of funds for the coupon program. According to an article in today's StarBulletin, "Hawaii residents had made 50,206 requests for digital converter coupons as of last week. That is more than double the 23,000 households statewide using over-the-air TVs, Leonard said. Hawaii has 424,000 television households."

    Well er, I did get 2 coupons in the mail this week and already redeemed one. That box will have to be mailed to my mom since the coupon did not come in time for me to hand carry the box to the Big Island.

    I'll have my sister install the thing. My Mom is not very up to date with tech.

    I'll probably get a second box with the other coupon and hold it in storage. Never can tell when I'll quit Oceanic cable (only 10 episodes left of Battlestar Galactica on SciFi).

    I have to wonder if cable is really necessary even for crappy OTA broadcast receiving areas? Much of the news breaks on the internet, and most TV series and all movies get released to DVD.

    (Sorry no linking to flash ad infested SB site)
    Already redeemed my two coupons by ordering online. Got myself two RCA DTA800B1's. Can't tell you anything since I'm using a VHF antenna (my dad's, installed back in the early 70's). Already bought a new long-range antenna though.
    Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

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  20. #120
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    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    PSIP time signals from all stations still have not been corrected - maybe they're just not going to bother until some time after the 'transition', eh?

    I bought the Digital Stream DTX9950 at Radio Shack when it went on sale for $55 ($17 after coupon+tax) and I must say it's better than the tuners in both my HDTV (except it doesn't get HD, of course) and DVR. The signal strength meter is really helpful in determining the best antenna position and it retains all previously found channels when rescanning - both features are not found on my HDTV and DVR. I like that the remote can also power on/off the TV (and adjust volume) and the PSIP info is as good as on my HDTV.
    Last edited by salmoned; January 7th, 2009 at 09:15 PM.
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

  21. #121

    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    Quote Originally Posted by salmoned View Post
    PSIP time signals from all stations still have not been corrected - maybe they're just not going to bother until some time after the 'transition', eh?

    I bought the Digital Stream DTX9950 at Radio Shack when it went on sale for $55 ($17 after coupon+tax) and I must say it's better than the tuners in both my HDTV (except it doesn't get HD, of course) and DVR. The signal strength meter is really helpful in determining the best antenna position and it retains all previously found channels when rescanning - both features are not found on my HDTV and DVR. I like that the remote can also power on/off the TV (and adjust volume) and the PSIP info is as good as on my HDTV.
    I just had to say how much I appreciate your report.
    Since over here on Maui we have no signals to test with (yet), I've been dreading the 15th and finding that the DTX9950 didn't perform well.

    Mahalo nui loa,

    --Michael

  22. #122
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    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    As a temporary measure, I hooked up the coax center wire to a single horizontal 12" rabbit ear stub (broken off piece) and the converter box picks up DTV channels 4, 5, 9, 11, 13, 20, & 66 (note; only missing 2, 14, 26 & 32). Couldn't expect to get 2, since it's a VHF frequency (8). I intended to get a splitter for the analog set, but no worry for lose only channel 2, eh?.
    Last edited by salmoned; January 9th, 2009 at 04:58 PM.
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

  23. #123

    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    I made an antenna like this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQhlmJTMzw
    It's the same as back in the 70's - 2 snowy channels from Maui.
    I bought a Magnavox converter box at Sears Kaneohe yesterday for $12 after the coupon.
    Then I phoned the FCC info number and they told me something like "keep your receipt because we're telling people on the Windward side of Oahu to expect no reception".
    None.
    So I guess we will find out next week.
    The antenna at Ulupalakua Ranch is to my understanding not really in the ideal spot. The person at FCC said that it isn't expected reach Windward very well.
    Reminds me of an Andy Bumatai quip back in the 80's that went something like "Kaaawa is Hawaiian for 'bad radio reception' ".

  24. #124
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    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    Quote Originally Posted by Golfsnorkel View Post
    Reminds me of an Andy Bumatai quip back in the 80's that went something like "Kaaawa is Hawaiian for 'bad radio reception' ".
    That is soooo true. When you hit the curve at Kualoa Point, might as well turn the radio off.
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  25. #125
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    Default Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    So tonight I decided to fool around with my TV and the old rabbit ears I had in the closet. Pulled that out, disconnected the Oceanic, connected the RCA DTV converter box, turned on the TV, the box, scanned the channels and this is what I picked up with just my cheap antenna:

    (Honolulu area, condo, near Ala Moana Center)

    2-1: KHON (Fox)
    2-2: KHON (CW)
    4-1: KITV (ABC)
    4-2: KITV (Accuweather)
    4-3: KITV (nothing on)
    13-1: KHNL (NBC)
    13-2: KHNL (nothing on)
    14-1: KWHE (Hawaii Five-0 LeSea)
    26-1: KAAH
    26-2: KAAH
    26-3: KAAH
    26-4: KAAH
    26-5: KAAH
    32-1: KBFD (Korean)
    38-1: KALO (religous)
    66-1: KPXO (ion)
    66-2: KPXO (cartoons?)
    66-3: KPXO (ion sports)
    66-4: KPXO (worship)

    Missing: KGMB (CBS), KFVE, KHET (PBS), KIKU (Japanese)

    Some notes:

    • Reception from antenna with digital much better than antenna analog; this area is bad for OTA analog reception.
    • KBFD is much better on digital than standard cable
    • KHNL is much better on digital than standard cable
    • I get added free channels with digital antenna not available on standard Oceanic service. CW & Accuwether n/a on standard cable.
    • KAAH and KITV have digital drop out, pixelating
    • KAAH and KPXO have several sub-channels working


    I am not about to give up my cable soon, but I think I may invest in a better antenna or check with our building manager to see if our outdoor antenna has been upgraded. Will try again.

    Will also consider getting an A-B switch of some type to swap between OTA and cable signal.

    Will see what the situation is on Thursday.
    Last edited by mel; January 12th, 2009 at 06:53 PM.
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