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  • #76
    Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    Michael,
    if the bar is in Kahului you should have absolutely no problems in seeing the digital signals.
    Mike

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    • #77
      Re: Digital TV Over The Air

      KFVE is back transmitting DTV, still no program info or station ID (listed as RF23.1), often with no audio. No signal currently from ION (66.1-4).
      May I always be found beneath your contempt.

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Digital TV Over The Air

        How come there is no public "town hall" meeting about the DTV switch on Molokai?
        Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

        Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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        • #79
          Re: Digital TV Over The Air

          DTV switch may leave some viewers in the dark

          Some Hawaii households receiving television over the air may be left without service after noon on Jan. 15, when Hawaii's full-power TV stations turn off their analog signals.

          Any disruption will be the effect of moving broadcast towers from atop Haleakala, on Maui, farther down in elevation to Ulupalakua Ranch. The signals will not emanate from as great a height, possibly causing some pockets of population to lose signals.

          Computer modeling shows the number will be smaller than feared, said Jonathan Adelstein, commissioner of the Federal Communications Commission, and Chris Leonard, president of the Hawaii Broadcasters Association.
          Random, I don't know how this will impact Molokai, but for people receiving free over the air TV on some areas of the Big Island (Hamakua, Waimea) via the current Maui relay, the impact may be dire.... i.e. no signal.

          I am getting a box for my parents' second TV and hopefully my coupon arrives before I leave for the Big Island so I can buy one here and take it with me there and install while I am on the Big Island for the holiday.

          Currently both the analog and digital signals from Maui are coming from towers at the top of the mountain. But on January 15 the digital only signal will come from a lower elevation and may not penetrate as far as the signal from the top.

          Also the channels will be repositioned with all of the ones currently on analog VHF moving to UHF. My personal experience with over the air UHF is that the signal doesn't seem to be as strong as VHF.
          I'm still here. Are you?

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          • #80
            Re: Digital TV Over The Air

            Originally posted by mel View Post
            Currently both the analog and digital signals from Maui are coming from towers at the top of the mountain. But on January 15 the digital only signal will come from a lower elevation and may not penetrate as far as the signal from the top.

            Also the channels will be repositioned with all of the ones currently on analog VHF moving to UHF. My personal experience with over the air UHF is that the signal doesn't seem to be as strong as VHF.
            Mel,
            I could be wrong, but I don't think any 'digital' stations ever got on the air from Haleakala. Also, the 'lower' VHF stations (Ch. 3 on Maui) will be re-channeled to UHF (Ch. 24) and the 'upper' VHF (Ch. 7, 10, 12) will retain their existing assignments.
            When I was up at the new site above Ulupalakua, I could "see" the Big Isand, but as to what the signals will be like in Waimea...Mike Rosenberg would be the one to ask.

            Here's a good place to get some kind of idea (select "post transition"):
            (If you'd like to test your location, then...>> Start HERE <<)
            http://www.tvfool.com/

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Digital TV Over The Air

              The propogation maps I am looking at make it a real stretch for Waimea to receive our new digital signals from Maui...perhaps if you are right on the coast by Waimea, but I wouldn't depend on it.
              BTW, I just received the gov't coupon for digital box that I registered for on 10/30, so if you are planning to get the $40 coupon, you'd better order RIGHT AWAY.
              Mike

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Digital TV Over The Air

                Originally posted by mike View Post
                The propogation maps I am looking at make it a real stretch for Waimea to receive our new digital signals from Maui...perhaps if you are right on the coast by Waimea, but I wouldn't depend on it.
                BTW, I just received the gov't coupon for digital box that I registered for on 10/30, so if you are planning to get the $40 coupon, you'd better order RIGHT AWAY.
                Mike
                Yeah, I got my two coupons. Supposed to received them BEFORE Thanksgiving/Black Friday weekend (went off-island to shop without them).

                Sighs.

                Need to look for reviews of good converter boxes.
                Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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                • #83
                  Re: Digital TV Over The Air

                  Originally posted by mel View Post
                  DTV switch may leave some viewers in the dark



                  Random, I don't know how this will impact Molokai, but for people receiving free over the air TV on some areas of the Big Island (Hamakua, Waimea) via the current Maui relay, the impact may be dire.... i.e. no signal.
                  All I know is that the Ulupalakua Tower will be 10 miles farther than Haleakala Tower from my current position. Still within a large directional antenna's 60-mile range (VHF). No way for UHF. Was it a hasty decision to put the new digital tower on Ulupalakua, or did they thoroughly researched it with both (East) Molokai and Lanai in mind?

                  What are the chance of adding a tower for each island, including Molokai and Lanai?

                  So, let me get this straight. When they shut off the analog signals January 15, they'll transfer the digital signals to the vacated VHF channels, right? At least in theory, right?

                  Why does the Big Island relying on Maui's Tower? Is it acting as relay to their own repeater?
                  Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                  Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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                  • #84
                    Re: Digital TV Over The Air

                    Originally posted by Random View Post
                    Why does the Big Island relying on Maui's Tower? Is it acting as relay to their own repeater?
                    For more than 50 years people receiving TV signals on the northern and western parts of the Big Island have gotten their programs from the towers located at the top of Haleakala.

                    That would be channels 3, 7, 10, and 12 and by the mid 1980s channel 15.

                    Some people in Kona also got Channel 6 which is KLEI TV that repeats either Channel 26 or 66 from Oahu (can't remember which one).

                    For most of the time the repeaters in Hilo would pick up the Maui signal and send those out to the Southeastern part of the Big Island... some parts of Hamakua, all of Hilo, Kaumana, and into Keeau and Volcano.

                    Mauna Kea Mountain pretty much blocks the Hilo signal from reaching Northern Hamakua (Laupahoehoe, Ookala, Paauilo, Honokaa, Kukuihaele) and Waimea/Kamuela.

                    I think most of the Kona coast as well as most of Kohala will continue to get a good over the air signal from Maui with the change to digital. I don't know what that will be like for Hamakua, Kamuela-Waimea. The Kohala Mountains may be in the way. I don't know.

                    Of course this may force some (or many) people to subscribe to satellite or cable. But still, nothing beats FREE TV, even without all the additional cable/satellite TV channel clutter.

                    Will the TV stations build low power transmitters to places that lose free OTA service? I wouldn't hold my breath on it, sad to say. The populations of these rural communities may be too small to justify the expense.
                    I'm still here. Are you?

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Digital TV Over The Air

                      Originally posted by tvhawaii View Post
                      Mel,
                      I could be wrong, but I don't think any 'digital' stations ever got on the air from Haleakala. Also, the 'lower' VHF stations (Ch. 3 on Maui) will be re-channeled to UHF (Ch. 24) and the 'upper' VHF (Ch. 7, 10, 12) will retain their existing assignments.
                      When I was up at the new site above Ulupalakua, I could "see" the Big Isand, but as to what the signals will be like in Waimea...Mike Rosenberg would be the one to ask.

                      Here's a good place to get some kind of idea (select "post transition"):
                      (If you'd like to test your location, then...>> Start HERE <<)
                      http://www.tvfool.com/
                      Thanks tvHawaii. I plugged in information for Honokaa, Hawaii a small town on the northern Hamakua Coast of the Big Island that receives all of its OTA signal from Haleakala. Currently on analog that means 5 stations as I mentioned earlier.... 3, 7, 10, 12 and 15.

                      Here's the analog info from tvfool.com.



                      Here's the digital line-up from after the switchover on 1-15-09.



                      Going by these 2 charts, in theory my folks should be able to receive all five channels clearly except for 15 (KOGG/KHNL). Listed with a -21 noise margin. On analog that channel is listed with a -6.6.

                      Honokaa residents will get KWHE at Channel 21 UHF / 21.1 Virtual.

                      It is kind of a sad tradeoff since KHNL is an NBC station and KWHE is only LeSea and reruns.

                      Of course this is assuming to mountains and other obstacles are not in the way.

                      Please understand that this is a simulation and can only be treated as a rough approximation. Reception at your location is affected by many factors such as multipath, antenna gain, receiver sensitivity, buildings, and trees - which are not taken into account. Your mileage may vary.
                      Just FYI tvHawaii, KGMV and KOGG are broadcasting in Digital from Maui now. The TV transmitter relocation will severely impact viewers of KOGG/KHNL. The current digital +36.5 noise margin (NB) which is also colored green, available theoretically with indoor antenna.

                      Viewers in Honokaa cannot catch any of the OTA channels shaded in gray.

                      Random, you may want to try the TV Fool analysis for Molokai.
                      Last edited by mel; December 11, 2008, 05:29 AM. Reason: fix typo
                      I'm still here. Are you?

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Digital TV Over The Air

                        Mel,

                        Nobody is presently broadcasting in digital on Maui. It is our hope that KGMB can begin on 1/9 and we are looking into signing KHET on early, but nobody is yet doing it.
                        To answer a couple of points brought up in recent posts:
                        1-The broadcasters explored two other, higher, locations to relocate on Maui and were rebuffed by various groups that didn't want our transmitters there. We settled on Ulupalalakua as a last resort.
                        2-Adding low power translators is probably not an option in Hawaii. We'd literally need to do EIS studies for each low power location. It's almost impossible to build anything on Maui or the BI where you need to be in an undeveloped area.
                        The last thing we want to do is to disenfranchise any of our OTA viewers, but, unfortunately some will be.

                        Mike

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Digital TV Over The Air

                          Originally posted by Random View Post
                          So, let me get this straight. When they shut off the analog signals January 15, they'll transfer the digital signals to the vacated VHF channels, right? At least in theory, right?
                          Edit: There is some movement. See this page for details. Note "DTV Temp" and "DTV Perm". Those are the actual frequencies (not the virtual or what's displayed.)
                          Last edited by GeckoGeek; December 11, 2008, 07:30 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Digital TV Over The Air

                            Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                            Edit: There is some movement. See this page for details. Note "DTV Temp" and "DTV Perm". Those are the actual frequencies (not the virtual or what's displayed.)
                            Okay, so I'll need a ginormous rooftop antenna that have a 50-mile range to catch UHF signals.

                            Anyone know where I can find one?
                            Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                            Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Digital TV Over The Air

                              Originally posted by mike View Post
                              Mel,

                              Nobody is presently broadcasting in digital on Maui. It is our hope that KGMB can begin on 1/9 and we are looking into signing KHET on early, but nobody is yet doing it.
                              To answer a couple of points brought up in recent posts:
                              1-The broadcasters explored two other, higher, locations to relocate on Maui and were rebuffed by various groups that didn't want our transmitters there. We settled on Ulupalalakua as a last resort.
                              2-Adding low power translators is probably not an option in Hawaii. We'd literally need to do EIS studies for each low power location. It's almost impossible to build anything on Maui or the BI where you need to be in an undeveloped area.
                              The last thing we want to do is to disenfranchise any of our OTA viewers, but, unfortunately some will be.

                              Mike
                              Thanks Mike for the update on this. Serves me right to believe everything I am getting from a mainland server, TV Fool.com...

                              So even if I buy my Mom a digital converter box now and take it back to the Big Island during Christmas holiday and connect to the TV, I will get no digital signal at all.

                              I was hoping the "DTV Temp" listing was good enough for me to test the thing out on the 2 channels that were listed as broadcasting digital from Maui. 24 KGMV and 16 KOGG.

                              Sadly I can't be on the Big Island on January 15 to help her adjust the gizmo.

                              I am angry at the environmentalists and some of the scientists with observatories at the top of Haleakala for forcing the TV broadcasters off the mountain. I am sure they used the DTV conversion as an added incentive to kick the broadcasters off the mountain. The thing is that the broadcasters were there FIRST! For more than 50 years nobody made a big stink about the birds. Sheesh... birds win out over the viewing public? Give me a break.

                              Of course the same kind of groups who oppose towers are the ones that oppose the Superferry and astronomy on the Big Island.

                              I still highly suspect that the lower elevation of the Maui transmitters will impact many OTA households along the Hamakua coast who do get that signal vs. the one from Hilo that fizzles out after I think Hakalau, due to the curvature of the island and Mauna Kea mountain.
                              I'm still here. Are you?

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Digital TV Over The Air

                                Originally posted by mel View Post
                                I am angry at the environmentalists and some of the scientists with observatories at the top of Haleakala for forcing the TV broadcasters off the mountain. I am sure they used the DTV conversion as an added incentive to kick the broadcasters off the mountain. The thing is that the broadcasters were there FIRST! For more than 50 years nobody made a big stink about the birds. Sheesh... birds win out over the viewing public? Give me a break.
                                Maybe they're getting bigger donations from dish and cable services.
                                Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                                Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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