Who Should Be Obama’s VP?

[TuNnL]

So Obama has chosen Biden. And as the Biden thread indicates, some *cough* timkona *cough* feel that he was not the best choice. So in light of the arguments that have been made for the selection, does anyone still feel there was a better candidate? Who and why?

[escondido100]

biden was quoted today that he thought hillary was better qualified than he.....foe president and vice president.....i think that obama has buyers remorse......and biden is prepping for stepping aside.....i seriously doubt that hillary will have anything to do with this....she is waiting for 2012 when she can go up against....palin.....she has a very good reason to not want obama to win.

[Frankie's Market]

biden was quoted today that he thought hillary was better qualified than he.....foe president and vice president.....i think that obama has buyers remorse......and biden is prepping for stepping aside.....

IOW, you think the Obama campaign is going to start panicking because of the Palin factor. Wrongo, that's not going to happen. As voters learn more about Palin and the dirty politicking of the GOP, I think buyer's remorse will set in with all those freshly jumping on the McCain/Palin bandwagon.

[U'ilani]

Why in the world would Joe Biden make this comment?

"Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Let’s get that straight. She’s a truly close personal friend, she is qualified to be president of the United States of America, she’s easily qualified to be vice president of the United States of America, and quite frankly, it might have been a better pick than me. But she’s first rate, I mean that sincerely, she’s first rate, so let’s get that straight."

This would seem to be undercutting the argument that the Dems have tried to make that Obama is qualified to be president, and reminding the public about the highly qualified candidate they had in Hillary Clinton. Buyer's remorse, indeed. McCain's people will use that comment against them; I can hear the ads already: "Even his own vp candidate, Senator Biden, acknowledges how easily qualified his former competitor, Hillary Clinton, was to be president..."

Who are the idiots running Obama's campaign? They need pitbulls (pun intended) like McCain has if they want to win. The public, frankly, eats up all of this playground quarrels and it impacts the way they see the candidates.

And then Obama is stupid enough to make the pigs & lipstick comment so soon after Palin made her pitbulls & lipstick one. Why didn't Obama realize that he'd take another body blow for that comment, probably particularly by white women who are mesmerized by Palin's personal narrative and can more easily identify with her?

Well, her interview with Charlie Gibson is tonight, so this is our first opportunity to see how she can perform without a script. Should be interesting.



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Oh, and I want to add that I think escondido100 could be right about Hillary wanting Obama to lose so that she can run against Palin. The next president will almost assuredly have a country in further economic & geopolitical crisis; if McCain wins, Hillary will have 4 years of the state of our nation under McCain/Palin to ridicule. By then, the country might truly be ready/willing/desperate enough to vote for a liberal again for president, and a woman, at that.

[My political/philosophical leanings: fiscally conservative, socially moderate cynic]

[Frankie's Market]

This would seem to be undercutting the argument that the Dems have tried to make that Obama is qualified to be president, and reminding the public about the highly qualified candidate they had in Hillary Clinton. Buyer's remorse, indeed. McCain's people will use that comment against them; I can hear the ads already: "Even his own vp candidate, Senator Biden, acknowledges how easily qualified his former competitor, Hillary Clinton, was to be president..."

Sounds like the same kind of bizarre spin that the McCain campaign used against Barack Obama, claiming that his "lipstick on a pig" statement amounted to the Illinois senator called Sarah Palin a pig.

You need to put Joe Biden's quote about Hillary Clinton into its proper context. Biden made his statement when someone at a Democratic fundraiser took a swipe at Clinton and said he was glad she wasn't selected as Barack Obama's running mate. So he said what he said to defend Hillary.

Keep in mind: the primary campaign is over. Obama is no longer running against Clinton. The Obama camp is doing it's best to reach out to Hillary's supporters and to unify the Democratic Party. Biden concurring with someone making a derogatory remark about the former First Lady isn't the best way of making peace with the Clintonites, don'cha think?

But yeah, leave it to someone in McCain's camp to try and twist Biden's words around. After this whole lipstick fiasco, I think voters will start getting fed up with pundits who twist every little thing the candidates say instead of focusing on the issues that really matter, like the economy, healthcare, national security, Iraq, etc.

[U'ilani]

You need to put Joe Biden's quote about Hillary Clinton into its proper context. Biden made his statement when someone at a Democratic fundraiser took a swipe at Clinton and said he was glad she wasn't selected as Barack Obama's running mate. So he said what he said to defend Hillary.

Keep in mind: the primary campaign is over. Obama is no longer running against Clinton. The Obama camp is doing it's best to reach out to Hillary's supporters and to unify the Democratic Party. Biden concurring with someone making a derogatory remark about the former First Lady isn't the best way of making peace with the Clintonites, don'cha think?

But yeah, leave it to someone in McCain's camp to try and twist Biden's words around. After this whole lipstick fiasco, I think voters will start getting fed up with pundits who twist every little thing the candidates say instead of focusing on the issues that really matter, like the economy, healthcare, national security, Iraq, etc.

No, you misunderstood me, Myopic. I don't have a dog in this fight. I understand the context of Biden's comment completely; my point is that comments like that can be used by his opponents by taking it out of context (as with the lipstick-pig one was done briefly yesterday). Politics is a bloodsport, and Hillary knew how to take on her opponents like a grand competitor/athlete; I don't see Obama having that same "go for the jugular" that politicians seem to require in this day and age. That may say something about Obama and his higher moral character, but it may be the thing that keeps him from winning this race. That's my only point, Joe. Don't throw me in your silly partisan battle here on the HT board; it bores the hell out of me. As I said before, our country is screwed no matter who gets in.

[Leo Lakio]

No, you misunderstood me, Myopic. --- That's my only point, Joe.

(Don't worry, U`ilani - we know you meant Frankie's Market, not MyopicJoe.)

[Frankie's Market]

No, you misunderstood me, Myopic. I don't have a dog in this fight. I understand the context of Biden's comment completely; my point is that comments like that can be used by his opponents by taking it out of context (as with the lipstick-pig one was done briefly yesterday).

My name is not Joe, but you are quoting me. So I will respond in turn.

If you understand the context, then I don't understand your making a big deal out of Biden's statement.

As I said, if the Republicans keep taking Obama/Biden's statements out of context and twisting their words,..... this strategy of putting the Democratic ticket on the defensive and distracting them from their campaign message will get old very quickly. Just as the McCain campaign won't be able to get away with screaming "Sexism!" every time the media reports a less-than-flattering story about Palin. If the GOP persists in these tactics, sooner or later, there will be a backlash from the media.

Earlier in the primary campaign, the cast at Saturday Night Live did a humorous sketch that shed light on the media's initial infatuation with Barack Obama. Then later, when it was obvious that Hillary no longer had a shot at the Democratic nomination, SNL made fun of Clinton being in denial of reality. I think it's only fair that the not-ready-for-primetime crew take a shot at the McCain/Palin ticket.

[Leo Lakio]

After this whole lipstick fiasco, I think voters will start getting fed up with pundits who twist every little thing the candidates say instead of focusing on the issues that really matter, like the economy, healthcare, national security, Iraq, etc.

If the GOP persists in these tactics, sooner or later, there will be a backlash from the media.

I really hope you are right, FM - but I have my doubts. I am constantly astounded by what the "average" American voter will swallow, and how weak the "media" has become. Our nation, sadly, gives more interest to "American Idol" than to "American Democracy," and as others are fond of saying, we end up with the government we deserve.

We get mad - but we never really change anything. The glory period of the American Empire is behind us, and history will eventually show that we are now in the corpulent and crumbling latter-days.

[Frankie's Market]

I really hope you are right, FM - but I have my doubts. I am constantly astounded by what the "average" American voter will swallow, and how weak the "media" has become.

There's already been a strong pushback from some political commentators who are calling out the McCain campaign for its use of phony outrage over the "lipstick-on-a-pig" remark. The best reaction from yesterday was Hardball's Chris Matthews. Check it out.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/

We get mad - but we never really change anything. The glory period of the American Empire is behind us, and history will eventually show that we are now in the corpulent and crumbling latter-days.

If that's the case, then why even bother voting? Why even get into passionate debates about politics? Why even care about who gets elected, from president all the way down to your state representative?

If things are ever to get better, it starts with people "caring." It doesn't start with attitudes of indifference or cyncism.

[Leo Lakio]

If that's the case, then why even bother voting? Why even get into passionate debates about politics? Why even care about who gets elected, from president all the way down to your state representative?

Because some of us are crazily optimistic, in addition to being cynical.

[Random]

If that's the case, then why even bother voting?

To hasten the fall of an empire.

[matapule]

If things are ever to get better, it starts with people "caring." It doesn't start with attitudes of indifference or cyncism.

I vote because I'm hoping for a cure for my cynicism.

[TuNnL]

We get mad - but we never really change anything. The glory period of the American Empire is behind us, and history will eventually show that we are now in the corpulent and crumbling latter-days.

If that's the case, then why even bother voting? Why even get into passionate debates about politics? Why even care about who gets elected, from president all the way down to your state representative?

This may sound condescending, but I think you are missing Leo’s underlying point here. The implication is that procuring passionate debate about politics and caring about who gets elected are necessary in a democratic society. But that’s not enough. One of the reasons I respect timkona despite the fact that I disagree with his opinions on the issues nearly 70% of the time, is he puts his money where his mouth is. Running for office is no easy task, and one that most of us will never even consider attempting in our lifetimes.

But that’s the only way real change can be initiated. We should do all the things you advocate and donate our money and our time to campaign for these individuals. We should get journalism degrees and practice investigative reporting. We should be community organizers, like Obama, and mobilize a base of new independent thinkers. We should get law degrees and take on large corporations and elements of the New World Order that control our federal government. And God forbid it should ever come to it, we should be prepared to take up arms against our government and revolt against it, like our forefathers said may be necessary, if our government has become so powerful and oppressive as to contradict the very principles it was founded on.

We underestimate the urgency of the decisions being made at this immediate moment. At least the Roman Empire had a long and proud history. Will the Country Formerly Known as the United States of America™ simply be a flash of brilliance in an otherwise dark period?

[Leo Lakio]

Thank you, FM, for asking. Thank you, TuNnL, for understanding. Thank you, matapule, for the wonderful answer (that I wish I had said).

Oh - and thank you, Random, for the answer that made me smirk.

[Frankie's Market]

This may sound condescending, but I think you are missing Leo’s underlying point here. The implication is that procuring passionate debate about politics and caring about who gets elected are necessary in a democratic society. But that’s not enough.

You're right, that isn't enough. But I never said it was.

In fact, you failed to quote my last statement, which contains a key word.

If things are ever to get better, it starts with people "caring." It doesn't start with attitudes of indifference or cyncism.

Note that I said it starts with caring. I didn't say that it started and ended there.

If anyone sincerely wants to make a difference in society, whether it be running for political office, being a teacher or a social worker, being a pastor/minister, or whatever, it all starts with that person initially caring and THEN, taking positive action on that initial attitude.

[Leo Lakio]

If anyone sincerely wants to make a difference in society, whether it be running for political office, being a teacher or a social worker, being a pastor/minister, or whatever, it all starts with that person initially caring and THEN, taking positive action on that initial attitude.

And some of us earn our cynicism by having taken action for years. Sometimes, we just get tired of the fight, and hope to see others take it up for a while, and do more than just whine about it.

[Frankie's Market]

And some of us earn our cynicism by having taken action for years. Sometimes, we just get tired of the fight, and hope to see others take it up for a while, and do more than just whine about it.

People get burned out and/or disillusioned for various reasons. If it happens, then hey, we're only human. Far be it from me to pass judgement on anyone.

But you have those special people who, despite the ups and downs of life, make public service a lifelong avocation. Sure, folks know about the famous ones like Mother Theresa and Rosa Parks. But there are thousands of others just like them, who never get recognition, but in their own ways, big and small, have done their part to make their communities and this country a better place to live.

Dare I say it? In this person's humble opinion, Ah Quon McElrath has touched more people's lives in this state than many a state legislator or city councilman. I truly believe that.

[matapule]

And some of us earn our cynicism by having taken action for years. Sometimes, we just get tired of the fight, and hope to see others take it up for a while, and do more than just whine about it.

NEVER give up, NEVER give up, NEVER give up!

What's the difference between a matapule and a 240 pound pitbull? A funny name!

[Leo Lakio]

But there are thousands of others just like them, who never get recognition, but in their own ways, big and small, have done their part to make their communities and this country a better place to live.

NEVER give up, NEVER give up, NEVER give up!

Ah, encouragement --- better'n caffeine! Mahalo.

[U'ilani]

My name is not Joe, but you are quoting me. So I will respond in turn.

My apologies for the name switch, MF; that's what I get for multitasking. I was indeed responding to you.

My post was really about campaign strategies and what candidates say and how their statements can hurt them. You instead are wanting to engage in partisan debate, which holds -0- interest for me. We're not talking the same language, plus this thread has moved on to more interesting topics, so I'll take my leave.

We get mad - but we never really change anything. The glory period of the American Empire is behind us, and history will eventually show that we are now in the corpulent and crumbling latter-days.

I'm totally with you on this comment, LL. We are both great cynics.

Those who know me and the kind of work I do know that I am completely engaged, and some days engulfed, in public service. Taking on a cynical attitude about our government enables me to be less disappointed, however. These past 7.5 years have disillusioned me completely.

[TuNnL]

Getting back on topic, I stumbled upon this segment from “Hotline T.V.” which apparently showcased a duel between MSNBC political director Chuck Todd and John Mercurio of the National Journal. The two were making predictions on the political fortunes of prospective presidential candidates in the very early stages of the campaign. The idea supposedly, was speculating a top-rated second-tier candidate (read: VP). Curiously, the events of the day have proven Mercurio was much more astute at predicting a winner then the clueless Todd. I just thought it was interesting.