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Using fuels other than crude oil for transportation use

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  • #16
    Re: Using fuels other than crude oil

    Originally posted by Creative-1 View Post
    I'd think the ideal would be some sort of photovoltaic system on every roof (with batteries for storage), providing most of the energy for the home and car.
    We still have yet to build a better battery or power storage system. Not many of us are going to stop traveling or working at night when the sun goes down.
    Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

    Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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    • #17
      Re: Using fuels other than crude oil

      A123 Systems will be marketing a module that is installed into Toyota Prius'. It will improve performance to 100 mpg. The modules aren't cheap: $10,000 uninstalled. But it's interesting a conventional-designed car, that doesn't look like a golf cart from Toon Town, can also operate entirely on electrical power alone.

      http://a123systems.com/#/news/news127

      And photovoltaics can help with that, too: Recharging cars. If the A123 batteries are set up with balance-charging wiring (and they should), they can charge up fast. And the number of cycles they can go through is a lot higher than Lead-Acid, NiMh, NiCad, Lithium-Ion or Lithium-Polymer.

      If biodiesel from algae turns out to be as good as predicted, perhaps a gradual changeover from gasoline to diesel can be done. Replace aging gas-powered cars with diesel-powered cars.

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      • #18
        Re: Using fuels other than crude oil

        You'd think salvinia molesta would be a great source of biofuel. The stuff grows faster than s*it! That's the stuff that overtook Lake Wilson before the legislature could even blink.

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        • #19
          Re: Using fuels other than crude oil

          It's important to make a distinction between energy sources in general and vehicular fuels.

          As a society, we need sources of energy to power the electrical grid, industrial factories, and mobile vehicles. There are lots of sources of energy but they generally boil down to nuclear, geothermal, solar (which includes photovoltaics, biofuels, and solar thermal), or fossil fuels (which really is old, stored solar!).

          Vehicles need fuel, i.e., a source of energy that can go with a moving vehicle.

          Gasoline and diesel are great for vehicles because those fuels have a high energy density, enough to justify carrying them around. Ethanol is almost as good. Biodiesel, too.

          Fuel for electric vehicles is either electricity (stored in batteries) or some chemical fuel (stored and then converted to electricity when needed). If we use batteries, then we need them to be quick-recharging, and we need a convenient recharging network. If we use fuel cells, then we need a fuel distribution system -- if we use liquid fuels like gas and diesel then we have this already; if we use hydrogen then we'll have to significantly retool our fuel distribution system.

          Note that this discussion about electric vehicle fuels says nothing about how you get the energy to generate the electricity, or to create the chemical fuel! You could be doing so with fossil fuels or with non-fossil-fuel sources.

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          • #20
            Re: Using fuels other than crude oil

            Ah, yes the joys of renewable energy. Let's see what happened when Tajikistan went "green". We are talking about the most "reliable" form of renewable energy here, hydroelectric. Ooppps, well they didn't get enough rain.

            http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=18784716

            "He says those who can afford it have installed woodstoves to heat their apartments. [ and cut down every tree in town ]

            "I don't sleep at night because I'm worried about my 1-year-old daughter. I'm afraid she'll freeze ... like my neighbors' child did," he says."



            "Outside, it's pitch black at 7 p.m., and a crowd of villagers has gathered in the darkness. They're angry at the government.

            The World Bank warns that the energy crisis could get much worse. Water levels have dropped dangerously low at the country's main hydro-electric power plant."


            I'm fine with green as long as it meets two requirements.
            1. That it is 100% reliable
            2. It's cheap

            If not, these problems need an engineering solution first.
            Last edited by AlohaKine; July 21, 2008, 12:25 PM.

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            • #21
              Re: Using fuels other than crude oil for transportation useage

              Check out this video by the Governor of Montana. Seems pretty smart to me.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VS6gV7EtH0

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              • #22
                Re: Using fuels other than crude oil for transportation use

                OK, why are there NO comments on Paul Ogata's link ?

                The air powered car engine.

                That's the best bet of all.

                I'm with that.


                I'll buy one of these.
                http://tikiyakiorchestra.com
                Need a place to stay in Hilo ?
                Cue Factory - Music for your Vision

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                • #23
                  Re: Using fuels other than crude oil for transportation useage

                  Originally posted by AlohaKine View Post
                  Check out this video by the Governor of Montana. Seems pretty smart to me.

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VS6gV7EtH0
                  Have we found a better way to burn coal cleanly? A better way to extract them safely?
                  Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                  Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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                  • #24
                    Re: Using fuels other than crude oil for transportation use

                    How about foot power like in The Flintstones?
                    Nike would be a global power.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Using fuels other than crude oil for transportation use

                      Not everybody nows that the United States sits on the "the largest fossil fuel deposits in the world in the form of oil shale." "There is estimated to be between 500 billion and 1.1 trillion barrels (80 and 175 km&#179" in Utah's Green River basin. America needs about 4 billion a year. Why are we importing oil at $140 bucks a barrel when we have all we need at half that or less.

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_River_%28Utah%29

                      Because people like Hillary Clinton and Ted Kennedy block it and then you suffer at the pump.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Using fuels other than crude oil for transportation use

                        Originally posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
                        How about foot power like in The Flintstones?
                        Nike would be a global power.
                        So, we go back to the crowded urban living before cars were made available to the mass public?

                        The Mega-City development plan don't look good on the already congested Honolulu landscape.
                        Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                        Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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                        • #27
                          Re: Using fuels other than crude oil for transportation use

                          Originally posted by AlohaKine View Post
                          Not everybody nows that the United States sits on the "the largest fossil fuel deposits in the world in the form of oil shale." "There is estimated to be between 500 billion and 1.1 trillion barrels (80 and 175 km³)" in Utah's Green River basin. America needs about 4 billion a year. Why are we importing oil at $140 bucks a barrel when we have all we need at half that or less.

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_River_%28Utah%29

                          Because people like Hillary Clinton and Ted Kennedy block it and then you suffer at the pump.
                          Many of us do, but the Gore eco-fanatics think it is worse than gas shortage.

                          So far, we have talked about personal and ground-based transportation. We haven't gotten into air-based transportation. Is it because we're comfortable with the rising ticket price and additional baggage fees?
                          Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                          Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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                          • #28
                            Re: Using fuels other than crude oil for transportation use

                            Originally posted by Random View Post
                            Many of us do, but the Gore eco-fanatics think it is worse than gas shortage.

                            So far, we have talked about personal and ground-based transportation. We haven't gotten into air-based transportation. Is it because we're comfortable with the rising ticket price and additional baggage fees?
                            I remember when I was a kid in the early 1960s and teachers were telling us about how there would be flying cars in the year 2000.

                            Now considering how stupid people can be behind the wheel, aren't you all glad THAT didn't come true!

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                            • #29
                              Re: Using fuels other than crude oil for transportation use

                              Making hydrogen from water is VERY easily done through electrolysis, and it's not that dangerous if you burn it as you make it. Storing large amounts in tanks make it very dangerous. Water is free. There is absolutely no reason why we (the world) should be dependent on oil, other than the powers-that-be wanting to enslave us. The technology of producing hydrogen from water, 2 electrodes, and a little electricity was invented 100 years ago. Yet, we're still arguing and making war over energy sources that should be free to the world.

                              Stanley Meyer was the first guy to invent a car that runs purely on water. (Just type his name in youtube). He died at the the young age of 57. Hydrogen booster enthusiasts believe he was silenced. Not surprisingly, his plans are nowhere to be found at this point in time.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Using fuels other than crude oil for transportation use

                                After reading Stanley Meyer's Wikipedia page, I am not convinced that he actually achieved the breakthroughs that he claimed. I don't believe that he invented a perpetual motion machine. It is almost laughable to me that anyone would bother to silence him.

                                What I wish for our island is a slower moving traffic lane. I know most people think 50 mph is not fast enough. Kauai is mostly connected by a 50 mph highway all around. That is a little too fast for bicycles, scooters, Neighborhood Electric Vehicles and tractors to utilize.

                                What about getting goods to our islands? I don't understand why we haven't reverted to sailing ships again. Sure, it will take longer to get stuff here, but what's the rush? --especially for nonperishables. We just need to adjust our thinking.

                                If we could achieve peace in our lifetime, could we convert some nuke-powered vessels to haul goods to and from the islands?

                                Just some thoughts I had..

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