Proof of Auto Insurance Gripe

[alohacandy]

My nephew borrowed my car to take his driver's license exam today. He is moving to California on Sat. so wanted to get it done before he left rather than wait another 6 months in Calif. My sis went with him to the driver's licensing place. I had JUST had my car's safety inspection done last week as well as had my registration updated and had used a copy of the USAA insurance card that I got off the internet for both of those transactions. Since hubby is on the mainland this week, I had no clue where the actual insurance policy is located in his "stuff". Even though the safety inspection place AND the City & County had no problem with my proof of insurance, the DMV would NOT test my nephew because it was not the ORIGINAL insurance card. WTF?? I had NEVER heard of that before. I called USAA and they said that Hawaii and one other state were the ONLY states with that requirement...that they won't even take a faxed copy directly from USAA. Soooo..since tomorrow is a state holiday and my nephew leaves on Sat., he will now have to wait another 6 months before he can get his driver's license in Calif. (He's 17). I feel so bad for my nephew. (The reason he was going to use my car was because my sis' car had already been shipped to the mainland and she was using a rental car and had been informed that no testing can be done on rental cars.) Am I the only person in Hawaii that had no idea that we are supposed to have the ORIGINAL card, not a copy of our proof of insurance?? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Pass me a valium please! LOL

[pzarquon]

Re: Proof of Auto Insurance Gripe

I was very recently stymied by this very same quirk, one of a dozen disasters that befell me during an attempt to get a safety check for my van. One of those, "you need this to get that, but you need that before you can get this" things, driving back and forth between the satellite city hall and the service station, initially renewing the registration on the wrong car (one I no longer own, on account of it having caught fire), and, indeed, finding the service station hung up on the "real" insurance card.

When in my long history of producing automotive documentation, a call to or fax from or laser-printed PDF was sufficient to prove I was insured.

It has something to do with state law, and the presence of the official state seal on the document. And I guess while insurance companies can print this seal on cards for us, they can't let us print them ourselves. Or something. It's goofy as hell.

So I feel your nephew's pain. Still, the last business day before he gets on the plane was probably cutting it a bit too close in terms of scheduling this particular task!

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Proof of Auto Insurance Gripe

See? Cokie Roberts was right - Hawai`i is "foreign." This sounds like an old Soviet structure, doesn't it?

[alohacandy]

Re: Proof of Auto Insurance Gripe

.....It has something to do with state law, and the presence of the official state seal on the document. And I guess while insurance companies can print this seal on cards for us, they can't let us print them ourselves. Or something. It's goofy as hell.......

So I feel your nephew's pain. Still, the last business day before he gets on the plane was probably cutting it a bit too close in terms of scheduling this particular task!

I wonder if this is a new state law since I never had this problem when I produced a copy from the insurance company website in previous transactions.

Yea..I know what you mean by cutting it close. He actually was to have done it 6 months ago...but he let his learners permit expire and then had to wait another 6 months. So this was the first day he could do it after the 6 month wait. In the meantime, his dad got orders to transfer to California. His dad left 2 weeks ago and my sis and nephew stayed behind the 2 weeks JUST so that he could take his test here rather than wait AGAIN in California. The extra 2 weeks wasn't easy on them either because they had to move out of their house and stay in temp. quarters during that time, rent a car, etc. A lot of extra expense was incurred.

[Amati]

Re: Proof of Auto Insurance Gripe

In the meantime, his dad got orders to transfer to California. His dad left 2 weeks ago and my sis and nephew stayed behind the 2 weeks JUST so that he could take his test here rather than wait AGAIN in California.

Well, he's probably learned a valuable lesson about making sure your ducks are lined up. And, having 6 months exposure to California roads and driving habits might not be such a bad thing for a teenager to have before setting him loose on those roads by himself. 6 months more of practice under the supervision of a licensed driver might actually end up being a REALLY GOOD IDEA.

[oceanpacific]

Re: Proof of Auto Insurance Gripe

Insurers send TWO no-fault cards upon renewal so that you can have one original in the car and the other in your wallet or another "safe" place. So, there's really no excuse for this blunder.[/B][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]

[joshuatree]

Re: Proof of Auto Insurance Gripe

Insurers send TWO no-fault cards upon renewal so that you can have one original in the car and the other in your wallet or another "safe" place. So, there's really no excuse for this blunder.[/B][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]

But what if you have more than two drivers and you don't like keeping any docs in your car? As someone who's had his car stolen before, I don't keep any docs in my car that will give info to future thieves. I carry my docs in my wallet which I feel I have more control over at any given moment than my car on a street.

[Amati]

Re: Proof of Auto Insurance Gripe

But what if you have more than two drivers and you don't like keeping any docs in your car? As someone who's had his car stolen before, I don't keep any docs in my car that will give info to future thieves. I carry my docs in my wallet which I feel I have more control over at any given moment than my car on a street.

I respect your concern to protect yourself from a thief, but a better idea would be to just use a PO Box for your address on documents and registrations. That way, if a thief steals your car or wallet, the only thing they are getting is a name & PO Box, not a home address.

Not carrying car documentation in the car is asking for inconveniences. You are more likely to be stopped by a cop (roadside DUO checkpoint, seat belt checks, etc), than to have your car stolen. You'd need your paperwork. With two or more drivers in your household, having to collect the paperwork every time either wants drive seems rather cumbersome.

You could steal my car and not get more than my name and PO Box. My street address is not on my car registration, no-fault card, driver's license, phone directory listing, excise license, land tax bill, none of the places that are easily accessible to the public, or a thief of my car.

[alohacandy]

Re: Proof of Auto Insurance Gripe

Well, he's probably learned a valuable lesson about making sure your ducks are lined up. And, having 6 months exposure to California roads and driving habits might not be such a bad thing for a teenager to have before setting him loose on those roads by himself. 6 months more of practice under the supervision of a licensed driver might actually end up being a REALLY GOOD IDEA.

That's true about him getting exposure to California roads and driving habits (including road rage; rudeness; etc.) that doesn't happen here as often.

It wasn't his fault about the insurance card issue though....more my not knowing that a copy off the internet is NOT sufficient even though I had never been called on this before.

[alohacandy]

Re: Proof of Auto Insurance Gripe

Insurers send TWO no-fault cards upon renewal so that you can have one original in the car and the other in your wallet or another "safe" place. So, there's really no excuse for this blunder.[/B][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]

OK...slap me with a wet noodle why don't ya? LOL

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Proof of Auto Insurance Gripe

But what if you have more than two drivers and you don't like keeping any docs in your car? As someone who's had his car stolen before, I don't keep any docs in my car that will give info to future thieves. I carry my docs in my wallet which I feel I have more control over at any given moment than my car on a street.

Well in that case, each driver of your car will have to keep their own copy of the no-fault insurance card in their wallet, if you insist on not keeping one in your car. They'll need it if they ever get pulled over by a cop or they get into an accident, and you're not there with them.

Don't see what was hard about coming up with that solution.

[oceanpacific]

Re: Proof of Auto Insurance Gripe

You can request "extra" no-fault cards from your carrier if you want one for each operator.

[salmoned]

Re: Proof of Auto Insurance Gripe

If you're asking if you are the only person in Hawaii who hasn't read the regulations concerning motor vehicle documentation, I'd say no. However, ignorance is no excuse, eh? It's all there in black and white, available to anyone who cares to look.

[alohacandy]

Re: Proof of Auto Insurance Gripe

If you're asking if you are the only person in Hawaii who hasn't read the regulations concerning motor vehicle documentation, I'd say no. However, ignorance is no excuse, eh? It's all there in black and white, available to anyone who cares to look.

Actually, I KNOW that I need proof of auto insurance. Just where IN BLACK AND WHITE is the info easily available that states exactly what is considered proof of insurance? I googled it several ways and no where did it say that the card that I always have gotten off of my insurance company's internet site is not sufficient proof.
For instance:
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/sessio...ls/SB1259_.htm[/COLOR] No motor vehicle or trailer shall be registered in the State unless the application required by this section is accompanied by a certificate of insurance from an automobile insurance company licensed to do business in the State that demonstrates that the vehicle is insured in compliance with chapters 287 and 431. The certificate of insurance shall be maintained with the record of registration of the vehicle. The director of finance may waive the requirement of a certificate of insurance if the director is otherwise satisfied that the provisions of compulsory motor vehicle liability insurance have been met for the vehicle.

OR HERE:

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscur..._0287-0022.htm 287-22 Certificate of insurance as proof. Proof of financial responsibility may be furnished by filing with the administrator the written certificate of any insurance carrier duly authorized to do business in the State certifying that there is in effect a motor vehicle liability policy for the benefit of the person or persons required to furnish proof of financial responsibility. The certificate shall give the effective date of the motor vehicle liability policy, which date shall be the same as the effective date of the certificate, and shall designate by explicit description or by appropriate reference all motor vehicles covered thereby, unless the policy is issued to a person who is not the owner of a motor vehicle. [L 1949, c 393, pt of §1; RL 1955, §160-100; HRS §287-22; am L 1980, c 84, pt of §1]


None of this tells me that my card off of the internet is not sufficient proof because it DOES have all of the required info.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Proof of Auto Insurance Gripe

[COLOR="Purple"]Actually, I KNOW that I need proof of auto insurance. Just where IN BLACK AND WHITE is the info easily available that states exactly what is considered proof of insurance? I googled it several ways and no where did it say that the card that I always have gotten off of my insurance company's internet site is not sufficient proof.

Ah, but what you failed to quote from SB1259 is this:

SECTION 1. The legislature finds that that there are a large number of vehicles on Hawaii's roads, perhaps twenty per cent or even higher, that are not insured, despite the requirement that motor vehicles and trailers have appropriate vehicle liability insurance at all times. While proof of insurance is required when renewing a safety check on a motor vehicle, too often the registered owner buys insurance only for the purpose of obtaining the required insurance card and then cancels the insurance, but continues to drive the vehicle. Of course, there also is the problem of drivers forging insurance cards, something that is not difficult to do with today's computers.

As you can see, when you read and analyze the legislation as a whole, it does allude to computer printouts and how it can be used to forge no-fault cards. This is why all the insurance companies here now print their auto no-fault cards on paper with duplication-proof backgrounds.

So unless you have access to that same paper (and obviously you're not supposed to), it is impossible for you to produce a no-fault card on your home PC that complies with the state's law.