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Thread: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea

  1. #1
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    Default Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea

    The Hawaiian activists have come out of woodwork to oppose the proposed Thirty Meter Telescope for Mauna Kea.

    Below is a letter to the editor expressing my support for this project.

    I’m frankly not surprised and equally frustrated that the usual suspects (e.g Hawaiian activists) are going to be pulling all stops to block the proposed Thirty Meter Telescope for Mauna Kea.

    They’ve falsely stated that some of the current telescopes are defunct and that the military has connections to the telescopes on Mauna Kea.What is even more frustrating is the fact these activists are taking shortsighted view of Hawaii’s future. Do these activists want Hawaii to continue to dangerously rely on unsustainable, and cyclical industries such as tourism,construction,and real estate ? Which have had a far more damaging environmental impact on Hawaii than the telescopes on Mauna Kea.Despite the latter fact, it seems like they want to keep the status quo in place.Especially since they’ve never brought forward any alternatives to diversify Hawaii’s economy. Instead they evangelize the politics of no.

    Hawaii County and the State of Hawaii need to strongly support diversifying our economy away from being so dependent on tourism,construction, military and real estate.The expansion of the telescopes on Mauna Kea excellent way to do the latter.It has brought good high paying jobs and creates a high technology base here. Thus the TMT proposal has my firm support.

    Aaron Stene
    Kailua-Kona
    Check out my blog on Kona issues :
    The Kona Blog

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea

    30 meters. Wow that even trumps the 24.5 meter monster that they are currently buliding call The "Giant Magellan Telescope". Sadly this one is going to be erected in Chile even though it's componets are being produced in Arizona. An economic loss for America and a windfall for Chile.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea

    Quote Originally Posted by AlohaKine View Post
    An economic loss for America and a windfall for Chile.
    More of these arrays are being constructed in South America in the past decade anyway, as it's easier to find enough land at higher, drier elevations. I would also point out that there's less air pollution in these Andean areas than in the U.S. - but please don't think that has anything to do with your pet-peeve smoking bans, AK.

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    Default Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea

    In Chile it also means you have to live in the cold, barren Atacoma desert many miles from anywhere. Not the place to be if you like "green space" because nothing grows there. I'd rather live in Hawaii myself.

    "Atacama is one of the driest places on Earth,[4] and is virtually sterile because it is blocked from moisture on both sides by the Andes mountains and by the Chilean Coast Range."

  5. #5

    Default Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea

    Quote Originally Posted by AlohaKine View Post
    In Chile it also means you have to live in the cold, barren Atacoma desert many miles from anywhere. Not the place to be if you like "green space" because nothing grows there.
    Most of these modern arrays are operated by remote control, via the internet. The conditions on Mauna Kea aren't exactly friendly, either.

  6. #6
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    Lightbulb Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea

    TMT protesters arrested: Spirit of aloha pervades as police break up Mauna Kea roadblocks
    The TMT opponents, who arrived outside the Mauna Kea visitor center at the 9,000-foot level before sunrise, held the workers back for the first few hours as they staged multiple roadblocks up the steep, winding summit road.

    The crews eventually reached the construction area and began their work at about noon, but not before the protesters held another stand at the site, which they filled with the sounds of Hawaiian chants and songs.

    About 30 to 40 TMT opponents gathered at the summit, and warmly embraced those who were willing to be detained as they were loaded into a police van. They stood afterward in a prayer circle on the summit road with a few police officers who joined them at their request.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea


  8. #8

    Default Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea


  9. #9

    Default Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea

    Nasty and hateful rhetoric by certain individual anti-TMT protester(s) reminds me of the nasty and hateful rhetoric that was spouted by certain individual protester(s) when H3 was under construction. I still smile a bit when I wonder to myself how often since then those certain H3 protesters have made their way to the on ramps for quicker trips back back and forth between town and Kaneohe.
    Now run along and play, but donít get into trouble.

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    Exclamation Aside: H-3 protests and destruction of important archeological sites

    I, myself, participated in the H-3 protests (peacefully) on anthropological grounds. The H-3 route ran right over a culturally important Heiau in Halawa Valley.

    I am a retired cultural anthropologist/ethnologist.

    Archeologist Dr. Earl 'Buddy' Neller spearheaded the complaint because of his knowledge of the area, and his work with the State and OHA. After his reroute efforts failed (it could have been done easily with a small curve in the highway), he ensured the preservation of the heiau by covering it with tire rims so that when or if the road was destroyed, the heiau could be more easily located with metal detection equipment. We all know it's never gonna happen. Dr. Neller lost his standing in the community because of his efforts and has since left Hawai`i. I understand he still visits on occasion.

    From a Star-Bulletin article:
    http://archives.starbulletin.com/97/...ws/story3.html

    Archaeologist Earl "Buddy" Neller, who spent seven years studying H-3 while with the State Historic Preservation Office and the Office of Hawaiian Affairs, believes the ancient Hawaiian sites at Luluku, Kukuiokane and Hale O Papa are significant. But he's frustrated he couldn't convince others likewise.

    Still, Neller welcomes the opportunity to return to complete pending H-3 survey reports. Years of work still must be done, he said.

    "There will always be people for whom these sites are just curiosities, uninteresting piles or rock, or whatever," Neller said from Urbana, Ill. "I know that as a committed professional archaeologist, these sites and others like them have played an important role in my life."

    And yes, I, former protestor, use H-3 often. At one time I used it daily to commute to work from Kahalu`u to Kapolei. It was originally planned to route it through Moanalua Valley, but it would have been problematical, and Halawa was chosen instead. Moanalua valley has some interesting historical features that would have been destroyed, and private homes would have been displaced.

    Most people don't know most of these facts. I worked at the Bishop Museum at the time, so was privy to most of the details.

    That said, I know of no 'sacred' or important archeological sites that would be impacted by the 30-meter telescope, and therefore support its construction.

    Some people just think the whole mountain or the whole island is sacred. In the pre-contact era the summit was kapu to all but high-ranking ali`i, but with the fall of the kapu system, it became open to all. Mauna Kea was a winter playground for ali`i who used the 'holua' sled in the winter snows - kind of a simple Hawaiian toboggan. Now, people actually go skiing and snowboarding there.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Aside: H-3 protests and destruction of important archeological sites

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    I, myself, participated in the H-3 protests (peacefully) on anthropological grounds. The H-3 route ran right over a culturally important Heiau in Halawa Valley.
    I had occasion to access the valley while H3 was under construction. I somewhere probably still have some photos of an old heiau site, with the modern-day addition of abandoned rickety wooden table and bench, and piles of rubbish. So much for respecting important sites ... and that mess occurred much before H3 construction came along.
    Now run along and play, but donít get into trouble.

  12. #12
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    Question Re: Aside: H-3 protests and destruction of important archeological sites

    Quote Originally Posted by Amati View Post
    I had occasion to access the valley while H3 was under construction. I somewhere probably still have some photos of an old heiau site, with the modern-day addition of abandoned rickety wooden table and bench, and piles of rubbish. So much for respecting important sites ... and that mess occurred much before H3 construction came along.
    Indeed. Some 'cultural reconstructionists' attempted to re-create the old men's and women's houses, and kinda did a half-hearted attempt without proper guidance -- or environmental consideration.

    In regard to "curses" on H-3, I have mentioned before that there is a significant magnetic anomaly about a quarter of mile outside the tunnel on the Halawa side.
    It only seems to be on the roadbed, and not on the ground. FWIW.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
    ~ ~
    Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Aside: H-3 protests and destruction of important archeological sites

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    Indeed. Some 'cultural reconstructionists' attempted to re-create the old men's and women's houses, and kinda did a half-hearted attempt without proper guidance -- or environmental consideration.
    I'll bet $$ that they weren't the ones who created the piles of empty beer cans and trash.
    But, some modern-day jerks did. (And I'll bet more $$ that they weren't tourists.)

    Now run along and play, but donít get into trouble.

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    Angry Re: Aside: H-3 protests and destruction of important archeological sites

    Quote Originally Posted by Amati View Post
    I'll bet $$ that they weren't the ones who created the piles of empty beer cans and trash.
    But, some modern-day jerks did. (And I'll bet more $$ that they weren't tourists.)

    I don't know any place on the island that hasn't been trashed to some extent. Secluded locations like this one are more likely to have trash linger....

    And now we have invasive ants atop Mauna Kea! Not from the telescopes, but in vegetation brought by protestors.

    too!
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
    ~ ~
    Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea


  16. #16
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    Cool Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea

    As an aside:

    ThePolynesians were the greatest explorers and navigators of the Earth, ever. They discovered and populated a larger area than any other ethnic group, though the land area was small, the distances of ocean travel were huge.

    Kinda sounds like space, "the final frontier."

    That other ethnicities are building upon Polynesian exploration without including Polynesians being a major part is insulting and demeaning. No wonder they are protesting.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
    ~ ~
    Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea

    http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/2...f-tmt-protests

    It's the Nerds vs. the Blalahs. Who you got?

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea

    Amazing that this thread started in 2008. One great thing of having this forum still online is the accidental time capsules it captures.

    No Arrests And No Construction Convoy After A Day Of Protests
    https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/07/pr...s-set-to-roll/

    Activists stop construction on first day of Thirty Meter Telescope work
    https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/...3c2b03d553117e

  19. #19

    Default Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea

    https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/0...cking-project/

    The Ponytail has become The Man or The Establishment.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea

    If only Kirk Caldwell was in charge. This issue would be .... Oh, nevah mind!

  21. #21

    Default Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea


  22. #22

    Default Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea

    https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/0...-hawaii-skies/

    Maybe no need telescope. You can spock one meteor with one hadaka eyes.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea

    Quote Originally Posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
    Maybe no need telescope. You can spock one meteor with one hadaka eyes.
    Most big telescopes is not meant to view objects that close to the Earth. Assuming that the Thirty Meter Telescope had been built, operating and pointing in the general direction of when that meteor whizzed by would have caused some frustration by the observatory staff.

    Think of it in this way. You setup a telescope on an upper level lanai in Waikiki that points toward the ocean so that you can see the ships that pass by in the distance. All good and well until a cockroach happens to plant itself on the far lens of the telescope.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...id/1838480001/

    As former NY Yankess broadcaster would write "WW" on his game scorecard on a bathroom break or doing something else. "WW" stands for Wasn't Watching. Astronomers wrote "WW" on their scorecard.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Thirty Meter Telescope Proposal For Mauna Kea

    https://www.kitv.com/story/40861968/...re-to-relocate

    Spain gives TMT the unconditional love.

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