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Unsettled Economy & The Bailout

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  • #16
    Re: Unsettled Economy

    I hate looking at my retirement accounts. Guess I will have to rely on the nonexistent Social Security!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Unsettled Economy

      I just heard a descriptive quote on the radio, "They built a house of cards based on greed". Yes, that seems to about say it all, folks.
      Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Unsettled Economy

        Originally posted by Amati View Post
        I am not responsibible for the idotic leadership (or lack thereof) that has landed us all in this mess. Myself, and alot of other hard working people and families, have done our part. Leadership is at fault.
        Apparently you missed a key point in matapule’s dialogue:
        Originally posted by matapule View Post
        The US got what it voted for last time.
        So you see, Amati, the American people should live as responsibly as you have. But that does not forgive them (including you) the critical civic duty of electing leaders who will not lead us, as Joe Biden so eloquently puts it, “off a cliff.”

        I would submit that voting is the bare minimum in that process. Educating yourself on the issues, donating time and money to candidates, running for office yourself, and ultimately, standing together in armed revolt against your government when it becomes so powerful and oppressive as to contradict the very principles our country was founded on. Geez, I feel like I gave this speech already.

        We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

        — U.S. President Bill Clinton
        USA TODAY, page 2A
        11 March 1993

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Unsettled Economy

          Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
          But that does not forgive them (including you) the critical civic duty of electing leaders who will not lead us, as Joe Biden so eloquently puts it, “off a cliff.”
          Not EVERONE voted for the current leaders. And, there is little defense that can be put up when suprised by liers and cheats (in politics and business). OK,OK, so none of us should be "suprised" by those actions by politicians. Sadly so.
          Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Unsettled Economy

            Originally posted by LocalMotion View Post
            They're not just going around bailing out all the companies that are running their businesses badly.
            I don't intend to give a comprehensive discourse on Federal bailouts since I am not that well versed. However, the Federal Reserve bailout of Bear Stearns comes to mind. There has been talk of the Federal government coming to the aid of the US auto industry. No, the government is not going around bailing out all the companies, just some. I wonder how they get on that lucky list? We, the taxpayers via the Federal government, should not be bailing out one company.

            And then there is the "Economic Stimulus" rebate. I lump that under bailouts. You may wish to disagree with my terminology, but it is a governement subsidy, that the US taxpayer cannot afford. Not only is the government bailing out SOME that are running their businesses badly,......The Federal Governement is one of those SAME businesses that is being run badly!
            Last edited by matapule; September 15, 2008, 11:21 PM.
            Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

            People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Unsettled Economy

              Originally posted by Amati View Post
              Your comment # two, I beg to differ. I am not responsible. I work. I pay my taxes. My family is my number one concern (children's education & health, etc). I don't overspend then declare bankruptcy, I pay my bills. I vote. I don't steal or lie or have deceptive business practices.

              I am not responsibible for the idotic leadership (or lack thereof) that has landed us all in this mess. Myself, and alot of other hard working people and families, have done our part. Leadership is at fault.
              When I said "we" it was in the collective sense, not the specific sense.

              But, how many of us canvassed neighborhoods, contributed money, demonstrated to protest "W"s second run for office? Maybe you did, but I didn't. Therefore, I am responsible for the last 8 years (even though I didn't vote for him) and perhaps you are too.

              And how many of us refused the "Economic Stimulus" rebate check? This is a tax rebate the country can't afford. Even Allen Greenspan says the government can't have tax cuts without corresponding cuts in spending and programs. Yet WE (the collective we) stand in line to accept the handout (maybe you could even call it a bailout).

              Despite the fact that most people work, pay their taxes, don't overspend then declare bankruptcy, pay their bills, vote, don't steal or lie or have deceptive business practices; WE are responsibible for the idotic leadership (or lack thereof) that has landed us all in this mess. WE, and alot of other hard working people and families, have not done our part. WE allow the idiotic leadership to be elected. It appears that in most polls WE are about to let that happen again. When will WE have had enough? When will WE put a stop to this?

              Yes, WE are responsible.
              Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

              People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Unsettled Economy

                Originally posted by escondido100 View Post
                i have no sympathy for the big wig investors who gamble like drunken sailors with other peoples money and have a history of winning big...making billions on risky deals......treat our economy like a casino and when things go south come crying for a bailout.........if your gonna play you may have to pay........warren buffet wil get richer...the mom and pop investor will get screwed.
                And therein lies the problem. People are going to lose a lot of their retirement 401K money. It happened in the late 90's with the "Dot Com" meltdown and it is happening again.

                Retirement investors need to be more savvy with where and how their retirement money is invested. The probelm is, WE (the collective we) just aren't that knowledgeable about investing. So, as opposed as I am to government intervention, it appears necessary to have governement regulation of retirement fund investments.

                In my opinion, 401K funds should only be invested in a total stock index fund like the Wilshire 5000 (or something similar). This is very conservative investing, but also relatively safe. No you aren't going to strike it rich in the Wilshire 5000 in the short term. But if you are going to try to be greedy by investing in a "high risk" 401K fund, you stand the chance of losing a good portion of your retirement investment. Fiscal conservatism is the way to a comfortable retirement.
                Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Unsettled Economy

                  Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                  I would submit that voting is the bare minimum in that process. Educating yourself on the issues, donating time and money to candidates, running for office yourself, and ultimately, standing together in armed revolt against your government when it becomes so powerful and oppressive as to contradict the very principles our country was founded on.
                  Alright Tunnl! Maybe you did learn something from us "old folks." I hope you run for office. I can't run, because AlohaKine says I'm too ugly. He thinks Sarah Palin would be a good leader because she is good looking. We deserve the leadership we vote for.

                  I haven't gotten this worked up about an election since Nixon ran for President.
                  Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                  People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Unsettled Economy

                    Originally posted by Amati View Post
                    Not EVERONE voted for the current leaders.
                    So what did you do to prevent them from being elected... besides vote? I didn't do much of anything, that makes me responsible.
                    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Unsettled Economy

                      Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                      Here is the bottom line, when it comes to where the Republicans have taken the American econony is the last 8 years when they have been in power:
                      Frankie, your points are well taken. So let's put our collective heads together here on HT and brainstorm a solution. There is a lot of wisdom represented by the members of HT. How can the governemnt fix the economy? WE are the government. What should be done?

                      I have read Obamas economic plan, I don't think it goes far enough. So Frankie and others who wish to participate, how do we fix this?

                      So I hope that McCain enjoyed whatever bounce he got out of his convention and the novelty of Sarah Palin. Sooner or later, the reality of this messed-up economy will not work in his favor.
                      My fear is that the economiic situation is going to work in McCains favor. Heartland America is going to look at the "familiar white man" to be a safe harbor during difficult economic times. And Palin will be shoved to the back burner.

                      Pay attention everyone!!!!! Don't be scammed by lies.
                      Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                      People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Unsettled Economy

                        Originally posted by LocalMotion View Post
                        My point is (first this thread was about Lehmans) most of these companies have not been bailed out and have done the fiscally responsible thing in letting them go under.
                        This morning's headline: Governement to bailout AIG. Also the Federal Reserve is going to pump 70 billion into financial institutions to kep them afloat. So much for letting them go under.
                        Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                        People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Unsettled Economy

                          Forbs is saying something different, that it's not a bailout and that the feds are still undecided if they'll float a loan. The State of New York however is offering a partial loan if AIG can get others to join in...they have till Wednesday to get it all together, if they can't, the offer is pulled:

                          http://www.forbes.com/wallstreet/200...m_0916aig.html

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Unsettled Economy

                            Looks like all the big money reserves are pumping in the cash:

                            http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...kpVsbtq9l4UDjQ



                            'Cause they're all scared if AIG falls:

                            http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...k&refer=canada
                            Last edited by Peshkwe; September 16, 2008, 06:42 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Unsettled Economy

                              Originally posted by matapule View Post
                              And therein lies the problem. People are going to lose a lot of their retirement 401K money. It happened in the late 90's with the "Dot Com" meltdown and it is happening again.

                              Retirement investors need to be more savvy with where and how their retirement money is invested. The probelm is, WE (the collective we) just aren't that knowledgeable about investing. So, as opposed as I am to government intervention, it appears necessary to have governement regulation of retirement fund investments.

                              In my opinion, 401K funds should only be invested in a total stock index fund like the Wilshire 5000 (or something similar). This is very conservative investing, but also relatively safe. No you aren't going to strike it rich in the Wilshire 5000 in the short term. But if you are going to try to be greedy by investing in a "high risk" 401K fund, you stand the chance of losing a good portion of your retirement investment. Fiscal conservatism is the way to a comfortable retirement.

                              You make good points.

                              In the early '80s, while seriously contemplating early retirement, I made a risk assessment using 1998 as my retirement date. Luckily, and I say this very seriously, LUCKILY, I was not risk averse. Plus, being in my mid-30s, I realized I had time on my side.

                              Yes, I read some books to learn about risk & time. I had to get smarter. Truss me: Reading those books helped. A lot of good info - on a lot of financial subjects.

                              Oh, I've made good decisions, but I also made oooh bad ones.

                              A good one was to remain working thru 2000; a terrible one was to refrain from going more conservative after I retired, so I rode the dot.com bust down, down, down. The sale of my rental condo allowed me to stay my course and ride the market back up. Again, lucky. Whew !!!

                              Needless to say, I have since gone more conservative, but still keep a movable percentage in a variety of stock funds plus my company stock. After all, at the present interest rates, I will lose to the rising costs of living. My pension doesn't have a COLA.

                              My advice? Assess your risk aversion & adjust your investments accordingly; and very importantly, do consider your time horizon. In my experience, down markets don't stay down; up markets don't stay up. DO NOT PANIC.
                              Born in Hawaii, too - Truss me

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Unsettled Economy

                                Originally posted by matapule View Post
                                My fear is that the economiic situation is going to work in McCains favor. Heartland America is going to look at the "familiar white man" to be a safe harbor during difficult economic times. And Palin will be shoved to the back burner.
                                IOW, you think that people will vote based on ignorance and fear.

                                Thankfully, your view does not correspond with the latest polling data. Even though McCain has gotten a significant boost from his convention and has statistically tied with Obama in most of the major daily tracking polls, Obama still has a lead when people are asked who do they think will do a better job in handling the economy. (Conversely, McCain continues to lead when the same people are asked who they think will do a better job when it comes to national security.) It's looking more and more like this election will be one that is ultimately decided by people's pocketbooks.

                                I will say this. No way did McCain's Herbert Hooveresque statements yesterday help him to close the economy gap against Obama, and in the next set of polling data, it may even widen to McCain's detriment.

                                But I don't think any major shift will occur until the first presidential debate takes place next week Friday. Supposedly, this first debate is to focus on foreign policy and national security. But with all the chaos happening on Wall Street, it wouldn't be surprising if the moderator decides to emphasize the economy instead.
                                This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                                Comment

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