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Thread: Lenient state judges

  1. #76
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    Question Re: Lenient state judges

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    I honestly don't know who's the bigger menace to society now. Mancao, who's in possession of a new car. Or Judge Perkins, for making these bone-headed decisions.
    Frankie, I know you're not listening, but I'd like to elect you the poster boy for justice.
    You are SO on top of these injustices. I see people get their lives wrecked by the court system for so much less, and these menaces go free.
    You seem to be on the 'inside' somehow - in the know - just to KNOW about these things.
    Is there anything we can do to help? Really, someone we can complain to? How can we change a corrupt system?

    Really - Aikea.

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  2. #77
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    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    *bump*

    We have judge Karen Ahn to thank for this mess:
    Drunken Driving Death Suspect Was DUI Fugitive (Date typo, 2nd sentence)
    Grieving mom sounds off on alleged killer's new DUI arrest

    My friend, Jodi, lost her husband (& my client), Jim, to a stoned driver 8 years ago. She offered this insight:

    I know how this family feels all too well. Letter wriitng campaign to the judge does help to give the judge a sense of what the community wants with this offender -- find out the judge and case number - addres the letters with respect and state your feelings as to the sentencing that you believe this guy should receive. I expected probabtion for the guy who took Jim's life - but was surprised that he received actual prison time (not much - 4 1/2 yrs with another 4 extended supervision) - but much more than I honestly expected and this was in very liberal madison, WI. You do have a small say so please use it to make a difference for this family.
    Searching court records it appears the case # is 1PC10-1-000166, in case anyone would like to write. Birmingham is a multiple repeat offender. Sickening...

  3. #78

    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    Judge Richard Perkins has struck again... allowing the man who stabbed 2 hikers at Koko Head Trail to attend college unsupervised. Watch your back, WCC students.

    http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/1...attend-college

    Davis appeared in court on July 22 asking for permission to take two English classes unsupervised. Judge Richard Perkins just granted the request.

    One of Davis' victims, Nicholas Iwamoto, shared his frustration by phone while on a mainland trip. In 2009, he was on the Koko Crater trail when Davis randomly attacked him and another hiker. Iwamoto was stabbed 18 times. He also suffered injuries like a broken neck and fractured skull from a fall to the bottom of a ravine.

    "Pretty much any time I open my mouth it hurts because I was stabbed in the left temple three times. When I take a deep breath, it hurts because both my lungs collapsed," said Iwamoto by phone from Boise, Idaho.

    Iwamoto hasn't been able to work, and he can't afford to go back to school to pursue his new dream of becoming a history teacher. He is upset that Davis will be allowed to leave the Hawaii State Hospital twice a week for nearly fours a day to attend classes at WCC unsupervised.

    "Knowing that he's free, getting an education while I can't even afford an education makes me sick," Iwamoto said.
    Hmmm. I suppose it won't make Nicholas Iwamoto feel better to learn that his tax dollars are being used to fund his attacker's tuition payment.

    http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/1...rsial-decision

    Critics wondered if taxpayers are paying for Davis' education, but Sheehan couldn't comment on this specific case due to privacy laws.

    "We do use our budget at the Hawaii State Hospital to support those activities for those people who we believe are appropriate for that level of responsibility," Sheehan said.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  4. #79
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    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    I heard Iwamoto's response yesterday...he was justifiably angry. He still has issues with his injuries and doesn't have enough money to go back to school. I want my tax dollars to go toward paying for Iwamoto's education, not Davis'. Good gawd, where is the justice in this case?

  5. #80
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    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    I have to believe the judge and the state hospital are in a better position to make this call than we are. Surely, they have a better idea of this man's mental condition and his ability to integrate safely into the campus community: it's not in their best interest to allow it otherwise, right? I mean, the EASY move on their part would be to just keep him locked up. Who except the patient would have a problem with that?

    If your problem is with the "not guilty by reason of insanity" verdict in general, that's a different issue. But the court ruled he was not guilty, and not guilty is not guilty. Of COURSE we want some kind of justice or some kind of punishment, but in this case I don't think there can be justice. This man did a horrible thing at a time when the courts say he was not in control of himself, and that what happened was not his fault.

    I am reminded of those prisoners in other states executed for crimes they committed even though they have the mental capacity and understanding of a young child. I don't know how you all feel about that, but it disturbs me, for while you can safely say that justice has been served in a case like that, is it really the right thing for the state to kill someone who could not have known the seriousness of his or her actions? I'm uncomfortable with it.

    In this case, we don't even have someone who the state considers guilty. It is not "lenient" to allow a not-guilty person to attend school if the person's doctors say it's safe to allow it.
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  6. #81

    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    I have to believe the judge and the state hospital are in a better position to make this call than we are.
    First of all, I've already cited 4 other cases involving Judge Perkins' being ridiculously lenient when it comes to sentencing. This thread has shown a definite pattern when it comes to this man of the law when it comes to his inability to mete out justice in a way that is fair and appropriate to perpetrators, victims, and to society in general. Throw out "the judge" in your opening statement, and then you lay out a more meaningful path of debate.

    Are the doctors in the state hospital making the right call in this case? If you and others think that to be the case, then so be it. I sincerely hope they are right. But when it comes to the safety of students, sound, methodical decisions have to be made to ensure their welfare, not on hope and optimism. Remember, Benjamin Davis viciously stabbed another man 18 times a mere 3 years ago. Is that enough time for present-day psychological medicine to establish that this man won't suffer a relapse into whatever "supposedly" made him mentally ill on that day in Koko Head Trail? My answer is no. That is still too soon. Maybe in another ten years.

    Is that too long? Well, it took John Hinckley Jr. some 20 years after shooting President Reagan before he was given the green light to start going out of the hospital to visit his family.

    Do the doctors at the state hospital have any children attending WCC? So easy for them to casually play Russian Roulette with the safety and welfare of other people's children. Since the judge and the doctors are going to take a crapshoot on this, it will unfortunately be up to WCC students and parents to take the necessary steps to ensure their own wellbeing. If I had a child going to WCC, they would be outta' there, effective today. You do what you gotta do, if you have idiots running the system.

    Benjamin Davis wants an education? Fine. There's this thing called "the internet" where he would have been able to take online courses and instruction from the hospital. That would have been a win-win for everyone involved. Davis gets to take his classes, and the other WCC students are safe from the possibility that the doctors' diagnosis is wrong.

    What are the potential consequences if Davis' doctors are wrong? Here's a fresh reminder.

    Iwamoto survived more than the hike. He lived through a savage, unprovoked attack by a knife-wielding assailant he had never met. The man struck from out of nowhere — stabbing Iwamoto 18 times, lacerating his liver, diaphragm, jugular vein and left temporal artery, puncturing his left lung, slashing his face and neck, and severing tendons in his right hand.
    A declaration of "opps!" from the doctor ain't gonna fix up your kid if he/she is victimized by Davis due to a relapse. That's the bottom line.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  7. #82
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    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    But when it comes to the safety of students, sound, methodical decisions have to be made to ensure their welfare, not on hope and optimism. Remember, Benjamin Davis viciously stabbed another man 18 times a mere 3 years ago. Is that enough time for present-day psychological medicine to establish that this man won't suffer a relapse into whatever "supposedly" made him mentally ill on that day in Koko Head Trail? My answer is no. That is still too soon. Maybe in another ten years.
    This is absurd, unless you have inside info on this citizen's medical and psychological information, and unless you have spoken to the doctors themselves who have made their assessment. How do YOU know that "sound, methodical decisions" have NOT been made to ensure their welfare? Can we please remember that the people making these decisions aren't stooges they pulled in off the street, and that there's a certain professional rigor that must have been exercised before this even went before a judge? 'Cause if we can't, we need to change the freaking requirements for holding that job. If you don't think whoever is in that position is qualified to make that decision, by all means cite some research and propose some kind of change.

    Is that too long? Well, it took John Hinckley Jr. some 20 years after shooting President Reagan before he was given the green light to start going out of the hospital to visit his family.
    And since these two men obviously have the same condition, we should treat both patients the same way. Of course.

    Do the doctors at the state hospital have any children attending WCC? So easy for them to casually play Russian Roulette with the safety and welfare of other people's children. Since the judge and the doctors are going to take a crapshoot on this, it will unfortunately be up to WCC students and parents to take the necessary steps to ensure their own wellbeing. If I had a child going to WCC, they would be outta' there, effective today. You do what you gotta do, if you have idiots running the system.
    Again I say absurd. HOW DO YOU KNOW they're treating it like a crapshoot? I admit I don't know the first thing about you, but I have a feeling you don't know any more about this patient's case than I do, and therefore have NO GROUNDS WHATSOEVER for calling it this.

    I ask you again: since it would be SO EASY for the doctors to keep the patient locked up in the walls of that hospital and nobody but the patient and his family would complain, what does the doctor have to gain by letting the patient go to school this way if it's everything you've characterized the situation to be? It defies logic. Which I suppose is your point, but I think my position is far more logical than yours.
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  8. #83

    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    Where there is a will, there is a way.

    Old judges are a dime a dozen.

    The supreme court is packed with them.
    Gore got screwed out of the white house because the dudes said stop counting votes in Florida.

  9. #84
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    Lightbulb Re: Lenient state judges

    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    I ask you again: since it would be SO EASY for the doctors to keep the patient locked up in the walls of that hospital and nobody but the patient and his family would complain, what does the doctor have to gain by letting the patient go to school this way if it's everything you've characterized the situation to be? It defies logic.
    No, not really. It’s a rare occasion when I defend Frankie, but on this one, I think you’re actually wrong, Scriv. It’s actually quite expensive to “keep a patient locked up in the walls of the hospital.” Taxpayer money funds the operation of that facility. The state is obligated to balance its budget as Constitutionally mandated.

    Politicians like to make cuts in unpopular areas of society such as prisons and state hospitals. So to answer your question, the doctor has plenty to gain by allowing the patient to go to school because it frees up that much more time for the doctor to treat other patients. School is an effective distraction for the patient — much like a baby rattle is for an infant. The state makes out because it subtracts whatever excess hours having Benjamin Davis under their close care and supervision would have been billed to the state. A win-win.

    You can rationalize allowing Davis out any way you want, but the bottom line is, Frankie has floated a perfectly reasonable alternative which you conveniently edited out of your rebuttal:

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    There's this thing called "the internet" where he would have been able to take online courses and instruction from the hospital. That would have been a win-win for everyone involved. Davis gets to take his classes, and the other WCC students are safe from the possibility that the doctors' diagnosis is wrong.

    What are the potential consequences if Davis' doctors are wrong?

    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

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  10. #85
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    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    On the contrary, I did consider that but don't have a response to it other than that gradual re-introduction to society must be the plan. I was trying to avoid supposition like that, not being in on the treatment plan myself.

    Yes, of course I'm aware of costs and freeing up space and stuff. But again: it's not in the hospital's best interest to let this guy out if he's a considerable risk again to do what he did. There must be a grey area in the middle there, in which case we can both be right and both be wrong, but that grey area must be something an expert knows about. I'm not really in on the discussion and don't know anything about how wide that grey area would be, which only brings me back to my original point, which is that none of us can speak with any kind of knowledge about what's really going on.
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  11. #86

    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    This is absurd, unless you have inside info on this citizen's medical and psychological information, and unless you have spoken to the doctors themselves who have made their assessment.
    I don't need to talk to the doctors and I don't need access to Benjamin Davis' psychological records to know that, if left to his own devices and without interference, Davis would have killed his victim on that fateful day at Koko Head. If Nicholas Iwamoto didn't escape Davis by falling off a 30 foot vertical cliff and a rolling another 70 feet, sane or insane, Davis would have committed a murder and we wouldn't even be having this discussion now. Why? Because no way in hell would people in this state tolerate a killer (insane or otherwise) being allowed to freely roam around unsupervised. Either in prison or in the hospital, Davis would have been rotting the rest of his life in confinement. What saved Davis from that fate was Iwamoto resorting to a desperate measure which resulted in suffering further injuries that were heaped upon the damage caused by his attacker's 18 stab wounds. And for that, you think it makes sense for Davis to suddenly go from a life sentence to a mere 3 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    Is that too long? Well, it took John Hinckley Jr. some 20 years after shooting President Reagan before he was given the green light to start going out of the hospital to visit his family.
    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    And since these two men obviously have the same condition, we should treat both patients the same way. Of course.
    Hinckley tried to assassinate the President and ended up crippling James Brady for life. Davis stabbed Iwamoto 18 times and now, his victim is permanently disabled unable to go to school or to work. Hinckley was not allowed to roam around unsupervised for nearly two decades. Using that as a standard, my call for Davis to be confined for at least 10 years is downright merciful, in comparison.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  12. #87

    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    StarAdvertiser:

    A student who was acquitted by reason of insanity of attempted murder involving an attack on two hikers will be escorted to and from his classes at Windward Community College. The college and Hawaii State Hospital reached the decision after a Circuit Court judge recently granted Benjamin Davis to attend classes unsupervised.
    On Aug. 7, Circuit Judge Richard Perkins granted Davis’s request to attend classes unsupervised which sparked public concern, prompting Chancellor Douglas Dykstra to meet with state hospital administrator to discuss security issues, according to a statement by Dykstra. “In light of the unprecedented public concern, the two administrators agreed that the student will be escorted to, from and during class sessions. Moreover, the college will be adding personnel to its security staff,” said Dykstra.
    "Unprecedented public concern" ... wonder what the "unprecedented" component was? Maybe an acknowledgement of the real possibility of a huge lawsuit against the state should Davis cause injury to someone while on his recreation break .... I mean while attended classes?
    Last edited by Amati; August 18th, 2012 at 02:29 AM.
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  13. #88
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    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    Only in Hawaii!
    Nope, not really......we got dozens and dozens driving around here on their 4th, 5th, and sixth DUI, SMILING in their arrest pic!! Makes me wanna chase them down and wring their necks and tell God they died.
    Hawaii doesn't have NEAR the sick, disgusting crimes the mainland does.
    If anyone on Oahu is NOT happy , feel free to trade places with me.

  14. #89

    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    Quote Originally Posted by memorylane View Post
    Hawaii doesn't have NEAR the sick, disgusting crimes the mainland does.
    We probably have the most hit and run human garbage in the nation, at least per capita, it's almost daily.

  15. #90
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    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    I've had the honor of spending a lot of time with "the crazy guy". At no point did I feel my safety was in danger. In fact, and I can't say why, but I feel if a violent person had walked in and threatened us, Ben would have jumped to his feet to protect us.

    His writings are observant and introspective. He is soft spoken and humble. Others who have gotten to know him wave happily at him.

    I wonder how much he could have achieved in his life, if he didn't suffer from his schizophrenic break.

    Is he a con artist manipulating all of us? Maybe. I don't know. If you were gonna attack people for thrills, why do it on Koko Head with a lot of witnesses and no escape?

    Was his attack the result of drugs, with mental illness being an excuse? I'm gonna have to assume the police gave him a blood test and didn't come up with anything.

    I don't know anything about Judge Perkins, but I do know Ben, and I think he deserves a second chance.

    I don't blame people for being afraid. I do wonder if there's a chance his medication would suddenly stop working, or whether he would maintain his medication if left unsupervised.

    On the other hand, anyone is capable of anything, given the right conditions. And successful, violent criminals are successful because they appear safe, so you always need to have situational awareness. I think we have more to fear from Hawaii drivers than from Ben.

    From what I've heard, most of the fear of Ben attending WCC is from parents and grandparents; not so much the students themselves. I'm glad he's at WCC. Kaneohe people tend to follow the "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

    Just my two cents.

    MJ
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  16. #91

    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    Quote Originally Posted by MyopicJoe View Post
    Kaneohe people tend to follow the "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".
    Does this last bit also apply to Nicholas Iwamoto?
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  17. #92

    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    Quote Originally Posted by MyopicJoe View Post
    Kaneohe people tend to follow the "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".
    HUH??? I'm sure you did not mean that in terms of Kaneohe folks not caring about protecting themselves and others from harm..... otherwise Makuola Collins and the Pali Golf Course shooters would not be in jail.
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  18. #93
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    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    Does this last bit also apply to Nicholas Iwamoto?
    It only applies to Nicholas Iwamoto if Nicholas Iwamoto wants it to apply to Nicholas Iwamoto. Nicholas Iwamoto doesn't care what I think. Nicholas Iwamoto chooses to spend what's left of Nicholas Iwamoto's life however Nicholas Iwamoto chooses to spend it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Amati View Post
    HUH??? I'm sure you did not mean that in terms of Kaneohe folks not caring about protecting themselves and others from harm
    I would say Kaneohe people are VERY smart when it comes to protecting themselves and others from harm. They live with enough crazy to smell it coming. If something bad goes down, they'll be the first to leave, while the clueless people look around, asking, "Uh, pardon me, why are you all leaving?"
    "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
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  19. #94

    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    Quote Originally Posted by MyopicJoe View Post
    It only applies to Nicholas Iwamoto if Nicholas Iwamoto wants it to apply to Nicholas Iwamoto. Nicholas Iwamoto doesn't care what I think. Nicholas Iwamoto chooses to spend what's left of Nicholas Iwamoto's life however Nicholas Iwamoto chooses to spend it.
    After your rather lengthy and philosophical commentary on Davis, it appears that your thoughts re: Iwamoto are downright trite.

    Which is perfectly fine. Everyone's free to express their thoughts in this forum. I know I will continue to use this forum to continue pressing for victim's rights.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  20. #95
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    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    After your rather lengthy and philosophical commentary on Davis, it appears that your thoughts re: Iwamoto are downright trite.
    If my comment appears trite, it's probably because it IS trite.

    I found "Does this last bit also apply to Nicholas Iwamoto?" to be trite in itself. If all we're gonna do is invoke the name of the victim and call that a "discussion", then I might as well use his name SEVEN TIMES and have us a REAL debate.


    Which is perfectly fine. Everyone's free to express their thoughts in this forum. I know I will continue to use this forum to continue pressing for victim's rights.
    Do you think you're the only one capable of feeling sympathy for the victim? Do you think because I don't completely agree with you, I possess less humanity than you? Dehumanizing people gives us an excuse to not listen.


    Now, if you are truly interested in being philosophical, then consider this:

    If Ben succeeds in his studies and his life, he's naturally going to want more freedom. As much as I like him, I think he will always need to be monitored and his movements limited. I'm no psychiatrist, but he'll have to take medication for the rest of his life, even if it makes him feel less human.

    Though it may be long and hidden, he'll always be on a leash.

    Of course, there will be debate about how long that leash should be. I can't speak for the victim, but I have to imagine a small part of him would enjoy (or think he'd enjoy) seeing Ben hung by that leash. Would revenge make him feel more like a man? Would that help him find joy in his life?

    Do you know what the real problem is? It's not what is or isn't being done to Ben. It's that very little is being done for Nicholas.

    "Knowing that he's free, getting an education while I can't even afford an education makes me sick," Iwamoto said.
    So why aren't people expressing outrage for Nicholas not getting more help? Why aren't a ton of people donating money to him?

    Maybe it's because deep down we really don't care about Nicholas. Maybe all we care about is our own safety and having Ben locked up. Maybe Nicholas Iwamoto is a name we invoke for our own selfish needs.
    "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
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    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    Hmmmm, ono food for thought.

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    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    It looks like something worthwhile is being done in this tragic event.

    University of Hawaii administrators were so touched by his positive spirit they gave the former UH student a four-year scholarship.

    ...

    Anyone interested in donating to the Friends of Nicholas Iwamoto Fund can visit any Bank of Hawaii branch.
    "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
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  23. #98
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    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    Quote Originally Posted by MyopicJoe View Post
    It looks like something worthwhile is being done in this tragic event.
    Yes, that wonderful gesture was announced a couple of weeks ago as was a fund at BoH. Once Iwamoto's plight was reported, people did express outrage. Me included.

  24. #99

    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    Quote Originally Posted by MyopicJoe View Post
    If my comment appears trite, it's probably because it IS trite.

    I found "Does this last bit also apply to Nicholas Iwamoto?" to be trite in itself.
    Well, if you actually took the time to read my previous posts in this thread (to be precise, #78, 81, and 86), you'll see that I had quite a bit to talk about re: Iwamoto and his near-death incident at the hands of Davis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    Which is perfectly fine. Everyone's free to express their thoughts in this forum. I know I will continue to use this forum to continue pressing for victim's rights.
    Quote Originally Posted by MyopicJoe View Post
    Do you think you're the only one capable of feeling sympathy for the victim? Do you think because I don't completely agree with you, I possess less humanity than you?
    Let's see. I made the simple statement that you, I and everyone else have the freedom to express our views on this issue. And for that, you fire back with a very defensive post.

    Listen, if you have a personal relationship with Davis and the comments that I make regarding him are upsetting you, then maybe I shouldn't have said anything. And honestly, I wouldn't have posted a response to your post.... except that you threw in that last part about "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Maybe you didn't intend it, but that comes across as preaching.

    IMO, Iwamoto doesn't need to lead a sin-free life in order to express his grave reservations re: the advisability of Davis being allowed to attend WCC w/o an escort. And to make it clear: this is just my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyopicJoe View Post
    Do you know what the real problem is? It's not what is or isn't being done to Ben. It's that very little is being done for Nicholas.
    You're right. That is a problem. But even with the UH scholie offer, even if Iwamoto's considerable medical/rehab bills were taken care of, all that wouldn't have stopped me and others from expressing our concerns about Davis being allowed to attend WCC without an escort a mere 3 years removed after coming perilously close to taking a couple of lives.

    I personally hope that Iwamoto gets all the help he needs to pay off his medical debts, become a teacher, and lead as normal a life as possible. But the fulfillment of that hope doesn't nullify or erase the issues I have with the way the state hospital and the courts initially handled the matter of how Davis was going to receive his education.
    Last edited by Frankie's Market; September 8th, 2012 at 06:16 PM.
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  25. #100
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    Default Re: Lenient state judges

    Well, if you actually took the time to read my previous posts in this thread (to be precise, #78, 81, and 86)
    Thank you for the post numbers. After reading them, this is my understanding of your main point:

    Three years is too short a time for Ben to be reintegrated into society. He is too dangerous, or potentially dangerous, to be trusted around the general public.

    Nothing I can say will change how you feel, which is fine. All I can say is I felt safe working with Ben, and I wouldn't hesitate working with him again.

    Of course, I would keep an eye out for any signs that his medication wasn't working. There is a risk that failure of his medication would result in a sudden break, as opposed to a slow break we'd have time to escape from, but I've chosen to trust that his doctors don't think it's a likely risk.

    I also hope they can perform urine/blood tests which verify Ben is taking his dosages.



    Is that too long? Well, it took John Hinckley Jr. some 20 years after shooting President Reagan before he was given the green light to start going out of the hospital to visit his family.
    As far as one can trust Wikipedia, it says Hinckley was diagnosed with:

    "narcissistic and schizoid personality disorders, dysthymia and borderline passive-aggressive features"

    "SPD is not the same as schizophrenia, although they share some similar characteristics"

    Are we comparing apples and oranges? How much do we trust Ben's doctors? How much do we trust Hinckley's doctors?



    Maybe you didn't intend it, but that comes across as preaching.
    I reread what I wrote, and I agree that I was preaching. I'm realizing I'm protective of Ben, because I've gotten to know him, and in my opinion he's a good person.

    I've sat across from people, who don't know Ben, say he should be put down like a dog. I understand why they're afraid, but it still makes me sad.

    So yes, I was preaching, and if that rubbed you the wrong way, I understand.



    I know I will continue to use this forum to continue pressing for victim's rights.
    Do you feel the doctors are accurate in diagnosing Ben with schizophrenia? Do you feel a schizophrenic has little control over their actions? Do you think treatment of schizophrenia is effective?

    If the answer is yes, then isn't Ben a victim also? Shouldn't he be given a chance to be a part of society again? Do we trust his doctors' judgement?

    If any of your answers is no, then it'd be helpful to know which ones you have issue with.
    "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
    "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
    "
    Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

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