Government Math

[GeckoGeek]

Anyone else notice this story?

"a single 20-minute phone call to Hawai'i costs about $5"

against

"about 130 Hawai'i prisoners", "Thanks to a $1.25 million 'Promoting Responsible Fatherhood' federal grant", "a chance to choose two books a month to send to each of their children"

Hey, I'm happy that it's having such a positive effect on everyone, but I sure hope to hell that $1.25M is helping a lot more then 130 prisoners and their families. They could do the same thing by phone for a lot less.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Government Math

"about 130 Hawai'i prisoners", "Thanks to a $1.25 million 'Promoting Responsible Fatherhood' federal grant", "a chance to choose two books a month to send to each of their children"

Hey, I'm happy that it's having such a positive effect on everyone, but I sure hope to hell that $1.25M is helping a lot more then 130 prisoners and their families.

I hope so too. Although to be fair, the program's biggest expense may not be the purchase and postage of the books/CDs. Your "summarization" omits the not-so-insignificant expenditures that will be needed to pay for the year long parenting class, not to mention the one-on-one mentoring with social workers.

While it is true that the the "read to me" aspect gives the program its novelty and newsworthiness, you need to consider the program as a whole (including its more mundane aspects) if you seriously want to analyze its merits on a cost/benefit basis.

[timkona]

Re: Government Math

Thank goodness we have not built a jail in Hawaii for these guys. Luckily, we don't have a prison in Ka'u. So we send them away. Then spend money to bring their voices back to their children.

This is such classic liberal cognitive dissonance that I am truly astonished. They protest prisons and spend money on "feel good" programs like this. The feel good programs only serve to assuage the subterranean guilt that most activists and protesters spend their life trying to avoid feeling.

How about we bring those guys home? Too crazy.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Government Math

From Yesterday's HA:

State teams with electric car company

Agassi said electric cars won't need a tremendous amount of electricity to run. He said it takes five to six kilowatt hours to power a typical daily commute in Hawai'i of 20 to 25 miles. "That's the laptop that you left on overnight," he said.

Uh, a laptop left on overnight? I don't think so. A laptop left on over a weekend if it drew the power supply's rated capacity (a real stretch).

Let's hope our government leaders didn't fall for any strange math when they inked a deal with Agassi's company.

[salmoned]

Re: Government Math

I did the cost calculator on the Miles Electric Cars website. By specifying 30 miles driven between charges (roundtrip to work), $0.2354/KWH electricity charges (lower than current prices), and 25 MPG for my current vehicle, I break even on per mile costs at gas prices of $2.17/gallon. Where's the big 'savings' for electric cars? Why should I spend big bucks [purchasing an electric car] to break even on cost per mile? Even at $4.00/gal, the higher initial expense of an electric vehicle is not likely to be recovered in the lower cost per mile. Additional note - this was for a max. 25 MPH vehicle, not a 'highway speed' vehicle. I just don't believe electric cars make any sense for Hawaii, unless you work for the electric company.

[matapule]

Re: Government Math

I break even on per mile costs at gas prices of $2.17/gallon. Where's the big 'savings' for electric cars? Why should I spend big bucks [purchasing an electric car] to break even on cost per mile?.

You don't get it. You don't purchase an electric car because of lower cost, you purchase an alternative energy car because it is good for the environment and it is patriotic to get our country off the petroleum standard....whatever the cost.

[timkona]

Re: Government Math

You don't purchase an electric car because of lower cost, you purchase an alternative energy car because it is good for the environment and it is patriotic to get our country off the petroleum standard

Mata, Mata, Mata. Consumers spend their money on what they perceive as the best value. I been saying it in another thread. The environment has little impact on their decisions.

[salmoned]

Re: Government Math

Maybe you don't get it - our electricity (on Oahu) is mostly derived from petroleum. So, whether electricity or an internal combustion engine powers your wheels, the energy source is the same. Why should anyone want to pay more to drive an electric car (vs. a conventional car) when the electricity powering the vehicle comes from the same fossil fuel source?

[AlohaKine]

Re: Government Math

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/?q...4124831AApr0qn

Powerplants tend to be much more efficient than cars. They use all kinds of bulkly efficiency devices to get as much usefull energy as possible from the fuel. It's all a matter of economics.

[matapule]

Re: Government Math

our electricity (on Oahu) is mostly derived from petroleum. So, whether electricity or an internal combustion engine powers your wheels, the energy source is the same.

Because energy generation in a power plant is more efficient than the internal combustion engine in a vehicle.

[matapule]

Re: Government Math

Consumers spend their money on what they perceive as the best value. I been saying it in another thread. The environment has little impact on their decisions.

Sorry Tim, I have put you on time out because of some of your recent posts. I can do that because I am much older than you are.

[timkona]

Re: Government Math

<< sits in corner, plots sinister deeds in mind >>

[joshuatree]

Re: Government Math

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/?q...4124831AApr0qn

Powerplants tend to be much more efficient than cars. They use all kinds of bulkly efficiency devices to get as much usefull energy as possible from the fuel. It's all a matter of economics.

Powerplants can also be far more clean since not being confined by space or weight restrictions, scrubbers can be added to the exhaust that comes out of smokestacks.

Using EVs or plug in hybrids will make more sense if one of two things happen. Or even better if both.

1) Battery design breakthroughs that lower production costs.
2) Hawaii's power grid shifts its main generating power source to renewables.

It's easy to say since we're not there, it doesn't make sense to use these types of vehicles but every little step gets us closer to that goal. Don't know how much progress has been made on the proposed wind farms on Molokai and Lanai plus the undersea power cable. But hopefully something comes it of it. Between a mixture of solar, wind, and tidal power generation, there's no reason why Hawaii can't be energy self sufficient.

[Composite 2992]

Re: Government Math

There's also geothermal which is a huge energy source.

There's serious discussion about transmitting power from one island to the next. If that comes to pass, power generated on the Big Island can be shared by the rest of the state.

Geothermal is consistent and reliable which makes it perfect for baseload power. That would take us off petroleum dependency for electricity.

If we do produce almost all our power from other sources, we'd have to figure out what to do with the petroleum distillation byproduct that is currently being used to produce power. That tar-like substance is what's left after crude is refined into gas, diesel and other products. The remaining substance is sent to HECO to be burned for power. Otherwise it would have to be shipped back to the Mainland.

[Composite 2992]

Re: Government Math

I did the cost calculator on the Miles Electric Cars website. By specifying 30 miles driven between charges (roundtrip to work), $0.2354/KWH electricity charges (lower than current prices), and 25 MPG for my current vehicle, I break even on per mile costs at gas prices of $2.17/gallon.

Check the math.

At 6 KWh of electricity for 25 miles, it comes to .24 KWh/mile. At a price of $0.2345/KWh, energy cost is $0.05628/mile.

If your car gets 25 MPG and gas costs $2.17/gal, then energy cost is $0.0868/mile. That's a difference of more than 3 cents per mile, or 54% more than an electric car.

And if you park at a metered stall then the electric car is exempt from paying anything. Parking at a metered stall near the office can save a minimum of $4 a day.