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Thread: Obama - broken promises

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    Default Obama - broken promises

    It is has just come to light, the Obama's pledge to enact a windfall profits tax on the oil companies has quietly been dropped from his economic agenda. This was not announced publicly, but just quietly removed. This broken promise along with his deciding that now is not the time to increase taxes on incomes over $250K from 36% to 39% marginal rate is disturbing. Did my vote mean that I was voting for more politics as usual? Obama better give a darn good explanation!
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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    I dislike broken promises, but I also think that now is not the best time to raise anybody's taxes. Even, and including, those who's taxable earnings are $250K or better. Especially considering the investments' losses that many people have had to endure because of our crummy economy.
    ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    It is has just come to light, the Obama's pledge to enact a windfall profits tax on the oil companies has quietly been dropped from his economic agenda. This was not announced publicly, but just quietly removed. This broken promise along with his deciding that now is not the time to increase taxes on incomes over $250K from 36% to 39% marginal rate is disturbing. Did my vote mean that I was voting for more politics as usual? Obama better give a darn good explanation!
    As Nader said, will he be "Uncle Sam or Uncle Tom". Looks like he's starting to understand how stuff works up there. He had dare not raise the working man's taxes - under 100k that is.

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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    It is has just come to light, the Obama's pledge to enact a windfall profits tax on the oil companies has quietly been dropped from his economic agenda. This was not announced publicly, but just quietly removed. This broken promise along with his deciding that now is not the time to increase taxes on incomes over $250K from 36% to 39% marginal rate is disturbing. Did my vote mean that I was voting for more politics as usual? Obama better give a darn good explanation!
    *chuckles*..........................why the long face matapule?
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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    It is has just come to light, the Obama's pledge to enact a windfall profits tax on the oil companies has quietly been dropped from his economic agenda. This was not announced publicly, but just quietly removed. This broken promise along with his deciding that now is not the time to increase taxes on incomes over $250K from 36% to 39% marginal rate is disturbing. Did my vote mean that I was voting for more politics as usual? Obama better give a darn good explanation!
    You need to pay attention to what's been going on economically. When Obama was talking about imposing the windfall profit tax, that was when the price of crude oil was on the increase, eventually peaking at $147 per barrel. Last time I checked, it had dropped to $47.

    Yes, I know the "big, bad" oil companies were making record profits this past year. But with the world economy already mired in a recession, even the petroleum firms cannot escape the effects of deflation. Obama and his economic advisors are smart enough to anticipate and look at the conditions ahead.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises (or not?)

    Oil prices have dropped 66% in the past few months, from over $150 per barrel to under $50 per barrel, and we've all seen the drastic price drops at our gas stations. So perhaps Obama's mere announcement of the plan to put in that windfall profits tax is part of what caused the oil prices to drop?
    I think calling this a broken promise may be premature evaculation.

    EDIT: See what Frankie wrote one minute before my post here. Well done, FM!
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises (or not?)

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
    /snip
    I think calling this a broken promise may be premature evaculation.
    /snip
    Isn't there a pill for this?

    In my years of watching politics, I haven't ever seen one politician keep to ALL promises that were made on the campaign trail. He/she can say one thing and with forces out of their control has to change it.

    It is politics as usual as it seems now but everything still remains to be seen....

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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    When there aren't windfall profits, it's hard to institute a windfall profits tax. Unless people want it applied retroactively? I don't see this as a broken campaign promise. However, if the oil companies start gouging again -- as they were urged to do under the Bush administration -- the pressure will be back on Obama to live up to that promise.
    Burl Burlingame
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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    I miss ol' bammy once again
    and I think it's a sin.
    Berber, duna,-da, berber, duna,-da, berber,,, budalidadudalida

    ah you know the rest.

    Just keep pressin' ol' Bammy to pound the solar panels and the windmills. Tax breaks for big business, small business, houses, condos, grass huts, gopher holes. Just plaster it with panels. And give the silicone/panel makin guys lots of tax breaks too.

    Full blown, dollar for dollar, with contractor bonuses to make damn certain they put it on every house. And architect bonuses, so they draw it on every plan. And automaker bonuses for every car that works on electricity.

    I mean just really start to blow it out of the park, crazy style. Money talks.

    Screw big business cuz u know they gonna pitch a bitch.

    And after 8 years, start a punishment program that includes tax increases, assessment increases, and other punative administrative costs...for everybody...even joe homeowner who ain't gettin on the program.

    For America, Ol' Bammy could do what Ike did. 50's = transportation. Today = power.

    That legacy would last 60+ years, just like Ike's roads.
    Last edited by timkona; December 3rd, 2008 at 09:27 PM.
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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    You need to pay attention to what's been going on economically. When Obama was talking about imposing the windfall profit tax, that was when the price of crude oil was on the increase, eventually peaking at $147 per barrel. Last time I checked, it had dropped to $47.
    I was waiting for this response! Thank you FM!

    Despite what the price of oil is or was, Obama could still enact a windfall profits tax that would go into effect when oil climbs back to a certain level. That is called being proactive and sends a strong message to the economy. How do I know that he won't do that iin the future? Because the proposal has been quietly dropped from his economic program without any public announcement. He and his staff know that he is renegging on a key piece of his platform.

    This is going to be interesting.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    Did my vote mean that I was voting for more politics as usual? Obama better give a darn good explanation!
    Oh Pleeease....... Did you honestly think he was going to change things - even before he gets into office? It didn't matter who was elected. While I believe he was the much better choice for a figurehead, we have to remember that is all he is. The explanation is......... those in charge won't let him do that. No matter what the issue at hand is. Unless of course, it suits their needs.

    Yes, I truely believe you voted for politics as usual. And that would apply if you had voted the other way as well.

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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
    So perhaps Obama's mere announcement of the plan to put in that windfall profits tax is part of what caused the oil prices to drop?
    No, the the price of crude has dropped. It had nothing to do with Obama's proposal. Do you really think that some sheik, somewhere in the Middle East is affected by Obama's windfall profits tax, when that sheik or OPEC sets the price for a barrel of crude?

    Quote Originally Posted by buzz1941 View Post
    When there aren't windfall profits, it's hard to institute a windfall profits tax. Unless people want it applied retroactively.
    Perhaps a short economics lesson is needed here. The price of a barrel of crude oil charged by an oil producing nation has nothing to do with the amount of profit a US oil processing company makes after refining and delivery to the end consumer (that means the gas pump). Perhaps Buzz knows something that oil industry analysts don't know when he says there are no windfall profits since quarterly reports aren't out yet. We have yet to determine if the oil comapnies are making windfall profits after the price drop in crude.

    Yes, a windfall profits tax can be applied retroactively for the current fiiscal year. It's done all the time, even to taxpayers like you and I. And yes, you can enact a windfall profits tax even if there is no windfall profits at this time. It would apply to any windfall profits in the future. That type of legislation sends a very strong message.

    If Obama made an error with regards to his idea for a windfall profits tax on oil, then he should come out publicly and admit his error. Why drop it from the platform with no public announcement? It just smells really bad, like rotten fish. I expected more from him.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    Quote Originally Posted by acousticlady View Post
    Oh Pleeease....... Did you honestly think he was going to change things - even before he gets into office?
    Honestly, yes. I expected him to fulfill his promises or explain to the public why it is necessary to change his strategy.

    It didn't matter who was elected.
    It really mattered that the nation elected Bush for 8 years.

    The explanation is......... those in charge won't let him do that.
    That premise is not substantiated by a history of Presidential leadership. And BTW, who do you think IS in charge?

    Yes, I truely believe you voted for politics as usual. And that would apply if you had voted the other way as well.
    Aha! another cynic! Yes, I am an idealist and naive to boot, I admit it. But I have the perspective of more years as a naive idealist than probably anyone else on HT.

    I think I'll go take a walk on the beach and ponder whether "is that all there is?" (thanks Peggy Lee)
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    Lightbulb Re: Obama - broken promises

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    That premise is not substantiated by a history of Presidential leadership. And BTW, who do you think IS in charge?
    I would contest that the premise isn’t substantiated by the history of Presidential leadership. And while I can’t speak for acousticlady, I can tell you who is in charge. They are (in random order): the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), the Bilderberg Group, the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP), the Trilateral Commission and the military-industrial complex. Much more information can be found here.

    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
    USA TODAY, page 2A
    11 March 1993

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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    Quote Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
    I can tell you who is in charge. They are (in random order): the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), the Bilderberg Group, the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP), the Trilateral Commission and the military-industrial complex.
    Ah, the old conspiracy theory. I wouldn't know where to begin.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    I was waiting for this response! Thank you FM!

    Despite what the price of oil is or was, Obama could still enact a windfall profits tax that would go into effect when oil climbs back to a certain level. That is called being proactive and sends a strong message to the economy. How do I know that he won't do that iin the future? Because the proposal has been quietly dropped from his economic program without any public announcement. He and his staff know that he is renegging on a key piece of his platform.

    This is going to be interesting.
    Is Obama's windfall profit tax singling out only oil companies or every corporations, foreign and domestic, that operate on US soil?

    Or is that our economy is now measured by oil?
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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    I was waiting for this response!
    Yeah, shuuuure you were.

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    Despite what the price of oil is or was, Obama could still enact a windfall profits tax that would go into effect when oil climbs back to a certain level. That is called being proactive and sends a strong message to the economy. How do I know that he won't do that iin the future? Because the proposal has been quietly dropped from his economic program without any public announcement. He and his staff know that he is renegging on a key piece of his platform.
    With every post you make, you further reveal to everybody else just how far off you are in la-la land.

    You have no idea just how bad of a recession we are now in. You think that everything is going to rebound honky-dory in a year's time? Or even 2 years?

    The price of oil and the issue of windfall profits for the petroleum companies will not be a concern during Obama's first term. The concern will be on unemployment and deflation. If those things gets out of control, we'll be in a full-blown depression. Under that catastrophic economic condition, the oil companies (as well as every other industry) would be in deep trouble for a long time to come.

    But hey. You keep on your vigil of ranting and screaming about windfall profits that the oil companies will "possibly" make during an Obama presidency. And while you're being "proactive," why don't you also tell everybody to repent before God destroys this world?
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    Yeah, shuuuure you were.
    Yep, I were.

    With every post you make, you further reveal to everybody else just how far off you are in la-la land.
    THAT'S A DANG LIE, DAGNABBIT! I'm actually off in Never-Never Land!

    You have no idea just how bad of a recession we are now in. You think that everything is going to rebound honky-dory in a year's time? Or even 2 years?
    I don't?

    I do?

    Do I hear 5 years? Anyone give me a five?

    The price of oil and the issue of windfall profits for the petroleum companies will not be a concern during Obama's first term.
    He said they would be on the campaign trail.

    The concern will be on unemployment and deflation. If those things gets out of control, we'll be in a full-blown depression.
    Some economists say we're already there.

    Under that catastrophic economic condition, the oil companies (as well as every other industry) would be in deep trouble for a long time to come.
    Yes, and ask for part of the bailout money just like other big businesses are doing!

    But hey. You keep on your vigil of ranting and screaming about windfall profits that the oil companies will "possibly" make during an Obama presidency.
    Thank you for permission to exercise my freedom of speech. You may want to put me on your ignore list.

    And while you're being "proactive," why don't you also tell everybody to repent before God destroys this world?
    I consider repentance and your relationship with god to be a personal matter, so I will leave proselytizing to others. Actually, I think homo sapiens is doing a pretty good job of destroying the world without god's help!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  20. #20

    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    Yes, and ask for part of the bailout money just like other big businesses are doing!
    They might if they hadn't stopped being American businesses and relocated out of country.
    Burl Burlingame
    "Art is never finished, only abandoned." -- Leonardo Da Vinci
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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    Some economists say we're already there.
    If that's the case (the economy being in a full-blown depression), then why in the world are you so obsessively worried about big oil making windfall profits?

    Gotta learn to keep your arguments in alignment there.

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    You may want to put me on your ignore list.
    Yikes! You don't want me commenting on your posts anymore? Have I gone too far with my rhetoric?

    Mmmmmm. (moment of introspection)

    Nah, don't think so!

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    Actually, I think homo sapiens is doing a pretty good job of destroying the world without god's help!
    I totally agree with this point!

    If only your outlook on the economy was just as astute.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    The reality of the economy is rooted in Demographics.

    The number of folks born between '46 and '64 is gigantic. It's overwhelming to an economy as these people become less valuable, and less contributing, to commerce.

    As they retire, and place further pressure upon the next 2 generations below (which includes me), implosion of the economy is certain.

    So how to fix it?

    Start increasing the retirement age IMMEDIATELY. Increase it faster, and keep these folks in the economy. Improve the incentive for folks already on Social Security to go out and get a job by not lessening their Social Security so much.

    Repeal, or reduce by a percentage, mandatory yearly spending increases on Congressional budget programs.

    Invest HUGE into energy production from non-fossil based sources. This item needs an FDR WPA flavor to it. And let these improvements come without the expensive red tape developed over the last 35 years. Energy is a large part of the economy, and therefore the easiest way to reduce costs.

    I think 5 years is very optimistic. This could drag on for about 15 years.

    I wrote an Econ paper in 1987 describing a lot of this. The "Pig in the Python" is nearing the end. It's gonna hurt.

    Great Presidents have made the most unpopular decisions. Media skewered them at the time, but history has been very kind to them.
    Last edited by timkona; December 4th, 2008 at 05:01 PM. Reason: grammar, syntax, and Bob Jones.
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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    If that's the case (the economy being in a full-blown depression), then why in the world are you so obsessively worried about big oil making windfall profits?
    Nope, just worked up about Obama keeping his promises or giving an explanation why his plan has changed.........which he hasn't.

    Gotta learn to keep your arguments in alignment there.
    My arguments will be in alignment only when the stars are in alignment. By golly, that is Jupiter and Venus up there tonight!

    Yikes! You don't want me commenting on your posts anymore? Have I gone too far with my rhetoric?
    'Course not. You're so irrisistable and cute when you're all lathered up!

    I totally agree with this point!
    I'm feeling faint! Someone get me a chair. Where's the smelling salts? Ya betcha, wink, wink.

    If only your outlook on the economy was just as astute.
    I wish I still had the wisdom of youth.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    Quote Originally Posted by timkona View Post
    The reality of the economy is rooted in Demographics.
    Oh Boy, oversimplification.

    The number of folks born between '46 and '64 is gigantic. It's overwhelming to an economy as these people become less valuable, and less contributing, to commerce.
    Whew.......I'm glad I didn't fall within those demographics!

    As they retire, and place further pressure upon the next 2 generations below (which includes me), implosion of the economy is certain.
    An oversimplification that is rapidly changing.

    So how to fix it?
    THIS should be good!

    Start increasing the retirement age IMMEDIATELY. Increase it faster, and keep these folks in the economy. Improve the incentive for folks already on Social Security to go out and get a job by not lessening their Social Security so much.
    Yep, you got it Tim, keep these people in the working economy so that it will make it more difficult for people like you to compete!

    Repeal, or reduce by a percentage, mandatory yearly spending increases on Congressional budget programs.
    HUH?

    Invest HUGE into energy production from non-fossil based sources. This item needs an FDR WPA flavor to it. And let these improvements come without the expensive red tape developed over the last 35 years. Energy is a large part of the economy, and therefore the easiest way to reduce costs.
    Okay, flesh that out for me.

    I think 5 years is very optimistic. This could drag on for about 15 years.
    Frankie gave me 2. Tim gives me 5. Do I hear 15? Anyone give me 15?

    I wrote an Econ paper in 1987 describing a lot of this. The "Pig in the Python" is nearing the end. It's gonna hurt.
    Hoop-de-doo......and I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night. If I were grading your paper based on what you have outlined above, I would give it a "C."

    Great Presidents have made the most unpopular decisions. Media skewered them at the time, but history has been very kind to them.
    Who are on your list of "great Presidents?" Inquiring minds want to know.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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    Default Re: Obama - broken promises

    Lincoln - very unpopular decision that started the bloodiest war in the history of our nation.

    Truman - very controversial decision that ended WWII in the Pacific.

    Reagan - ending the Cold War via military spending

    FDR used WPA programs to spend government revenues putting Americans to work building large scale infrastructure. Many damns, roads, public buildings, parks, flood control projects, etc.

    I got an A on that paper. It was much longer than 8 paragraphs.
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