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Stairway to Heaven

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  • #16
    Re: Stairway to Heaven

    Originally posted by turtlegirl View Post
    Give me a waiver to sign that says "I promise to be very careful with my life and safety, and I swear not to sue anybody for any risk I may take", then get outta the way. Like anybody wants to hurt themselves and sue, save for a handful of sickos
    I don't think it's simple as you think. Sure you sign the waiver, you do the hike and nothing bad happens, so that's great right.

    But what happens if you do get hurt and you can't get out, what happens then? Do we send the rescue squad to get you, risking their lives for situation that shouldn't happen in the first place?

    So then you say that's okay, if you get hurt on the trail, just leave you there till you die, you signed the waiver right. So now two things happen. 1) Hawaii get's bad press because we let residents and/or tourist die on the hiking trails and 2) you as a hiker go on these trails and you encounter a dead decompossed body and you say "How come the local government don't clean up this mess?"

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Stairway to Heaven

      Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
      But things won't change no matter who is the mayor. What's really needed to make a difference is litigation reform.
      This is one of the biggest problems I see in America today. I agree wholeheartedly.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Stairway to Heaven

        Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
        ...- no, I'm not very sympathetic to folks who break the law just because they feel like it. and I don't feel bad about it at all.
        In my opinion, there should be signage that's adequate to relieve the costs of rescue (charge it to the the rescued) and to keep the State & County governments safe from financial responsibility of litigation. So that these types of areas are still open and accessible for those that wish.

        I've been going to the Hanauma Bay "Toilet Bowl" since I was a kid, till the area was closed in the mid-nineties. Now, it's illegal to go and a $500 fine if you're caught past the fence. Uncool! I love that place and miss it dearly.
        Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

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        • #19
          Re: Stairway to Heaven

          No matter what the signage says, or how many waivers are signed - there will always been an attorney who can file a lawsuit and get around any restrictions. I think this difference of opinion all comes down to an age thing: older residents understand what rules & laws mean. and we tend to respect them more. The younger folks (Gen X & Y for example) think that all all rules are meant to be broken and that they don't apply to them in the first place. and yes, that is a generalization - not always accurate. so apologies to all you young'uns who don't live that way.

          and I'm really tired of seeing our tax dollars go to pay off some fool who decided to go where they weren't supposed to, suffered some loss, got a smart lawyer and decided to sue for whatever they could get. it just shows a great lack of ethics and principles.
          "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
          – Sydney J. Harris

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Stairway to Heaven

            Originally posted by Menehune Man View Post
            I've been going to the Hanauma Bay "Toilet Bowl" since I was a kid, till the area was closed in the mid-nineties. Now, it's illegal to go and a $500 fine if you're caught past the fence. Uncool! I love that place and miss it dearly.
            I was a volunteer at Hanauma Bay during the '90s, so if Toilet Bowl has been closed, it was sometime after 2000 or thereabouts. Can't begin to tell you how many people were removed by ambulance and medevac helicopter, all with neck and spine injuries. TB is fun, but the edges stick out over the water and if you aren't in the middle when the surge lifts you... SNAP goes the neck.
            TB is easy to jump into but pretty hard to climb out on those rounded slippery rocks. Had to help a slew of people out over the years.
            As for signage and lawyers, anybody remember that genius idiot teenager who ignored all the signs and fences and jumped into Halona Blowhole and died? And his parents sued the state!
            .
            .

            That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Stairway to Heaven

              thank you for that sad example. I'd forgotten about him. thats a very good example of how folks just ignore warning signs.
              "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
              – Sydney J. Harris

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Stairway to Heaven

                Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
                thank you for that sad example. I'd forgotten about him. thats a very good example of how folks just ignore warning signs.
                It was July 2002, and one story about it is at this link.
                Google "Halona Blowhole death" for more.
                .
                .

                That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Stairway to Heaven


                  MenehuneMan

                  All truly because the Hawaii State and City & County governments can't figure out proper signage to relieve us all from the financial responsibility of what a private citizen chooses to do.

                  If someone walks past a sign that states... "Beyond this point, you are solely responsible... blah, blah. blah.

                  Other places around the country and world still have access to perceived dangerous spots. Why can't we?
                  and
                  In my opinion, there should be signage that's adequate to relieve the costs of rescue (charge it to the the rescued) and to keep the State & County governments safe from financial responsibility of litigation. So that these types of areas are still open and accessible for those that wish.

                  __________________

                  Bob

                  I think your ire towards the mayor is misplaced. If anything is to be blamed, it's the out-of-control litigation that has plagued our society. Whenever someone gets hurt, even if it is caused by an act of Mother Nature (i.e. Sacred Falls landslide) or by one's own carelessness/stupidity, the first thought of too many people are: who can we sue?

                  Blame Mufi if you want. But things won't change no matter who is the mayor. What's really needed to make a difference is litigation reform.

                  ________________________
                  anapuni808

                  No matter what the signage says, or how many waivers are signed - there will always been an attorney who can file a lawsuit and get around any restrictions.

                  _________________________
                  Wm. Shakespeare
                  "The first thing we do, is kill all the lawyers!"
                  ________________________
                  A VERY cute tourist from Sweden, when asked, "How do Europeans, in general, view Americans?"
                  she said, "Well, in Europe, if we fall down the stairs, anywhere, we say, 'Oh, stupid me. I should have been more careful."
                  "In America, if an American falls down they immediately look for a lawyer and try to find out who to sue."
                  (Frankly I think the lawyers look for injured Americans!)
                  _________________________
                  Yes, litigation reform. No argument.
                  However, I can blame Mufi because he is the one who can DO something about it -- and he doesn't.

                  I can also blame Mufi that the C&C is building flower pots (planters) along the walls of lower Kahekili Highway, spending (I hear) millions of taxpayer dollars on cosmetics instead of doing the necessary Kahekili upgrades, fixing the Kahalu`u (Kam/Kahekili) Interchange, widening Kahekili between Temple Valley and Haiku, relieving identified traffic jam intersections in Temple Valley.

                  "Do we need it? Can we afford it?" Mufi has rapidly forgotten his campaign promises. And he knows that in Hawai`i, 'Once an incumbent, always an incumbent.' No worries.

                  Do we need flowerpots? We sure need traffic relief more!

                  MUFI: Do we need HIM? Can we afford HIM?

                  Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                  ~ ~
                  Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                  Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                  Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Stairway to Heaven

                    Why would this be considered an 'age thing'? Gen x & y learned a lot from the older generations, as no kid is born with a complete set of morals and values. They are learned. From the adults around them. Parents, teachers, neighbors, other adults who that child maybe hasn't ever met, also. Therefore, any percieved shortcomings of the younger generations can likely be traced back to things learned from the older ones.

                    Additionally, I don't think that there's a very high percentage of lawyers in the 18-28 age range. It takes a little more age and experience to successfully practice law. Additionally, again, there don't seem to be any lawmakers in this great state under the age of 35. So, how again can 'lack of ethics and principles' be blamed on young people?

                    And where were that teenage boy's parents? Any responsible adult should know not to let teenagers run around in near potential danger unsupervised. Maybe the older generations should be paying more attention?
                    ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Stairway to Heaven

                      Originally posted by turtlegirl View Post
                      Why would this be considered an 'age thing'? Gen x & y learned a lot from the older generations, as no kid is born with a complete set of morals and values. They are learned. From the adults around them. Parents, teachers, neighbors, other adults who that child maybe hasn't ever met, also. Therefore, any percieved shortcomings of the younger generations can likely be traced back to things learned from the older ones.

                      Additionally, I don't think that there's a very high percentage of lawyers in the 18-28 age range. It takes a little more age and experience to successfully practice law. Additionally, again, there don't seem to be any lawmakers in this great state under the age of 35. So, how again can 'lack of ethics and principles' be blamed on young people?

                      And where were that teenage boy's parents? Any responsible adult should know not to let teenagers run around in near potential danger unsupervised. Maybe the older generations should be paying more attention?
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_E._Schatz

                      Here's a young lawmaker he just turned 36.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Stairway to Heaven

                        Originally posted by Menehune Man View Post
                        Beware: some of the residents of Haiku are extremely hostile toward hikers attempting Haiku Stairs. In their irritation over these hikers utilizing Puuoni Pl, they have managed to get hikers' cars cited or towed."
                        How do they do that if the car is parked legally? (Without doing something illegal themselves?)


                        Originally posted by Menehune Man View Post
                        I haven't been since the seventies.
                        I've been up it 2-3 times when it was legal to do so. One hell of a hike. Both in terms of scenery and what it will do to you if you try an hurry.


                        Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                        What's really needed to make a difference is litigation reform.
                        I agree.

                        The Stairway is probably one of the safest hikes on the islands. Where else do you find a trail with handrails?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Stairway to Heaven

                          Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
                          Sorry, SG - if you go ahead & take this hike (just because you've seen other lawbreakers doing it) & get injured, or have your car towed for illegal parking or if you get cited for trespassing, I will not have any sympathy for you. I will not want to listen to your whining because you got caught.

                          Why is it that so many think that rules and laws just do not apply to them if they want something? I've just never understood that.
                          I'm just curious where exactly you got the idea that I was coming here to whine about anything. All I wanted to know was (hypothetically) where one could find the trail head if one did not want to park their car in the neighborhood so as not to be an A-hole. We were all having a lovely discussion about the Haiku Stairs until this comment was made to me, for absolutely no reason and derailed our conversation by turning it into a legal battle. No one was asked for legal advice. No one was asked if the trail was safe, or if a ticket was justified if someone was caught tresspassing, or if we could please turn this thread into a teadious discussion about politics and American laywers and stupid kids breaking the law and getting what they deserved.

                          I didn't ask you for sympathy. I don't know who you are, but I'm pretty sure I don't want to!

                          Now- putting aside lawyers and all that crap (because who needs a stupid lawyer when I just want to know something for a hypothetical paper I'm writing, like for a class!!!!), I STILL have not had my question answered.

                          Can't think of anything creative this time

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Stairway to Heaven

                            this thread piqued my interest so with a little research i found this linkhttp://www.friendsofhaikustairs.org/FHS%20News.html
                            it seems that the best chance of getting to hike these stairs is to join thevolunteers that are allowed to care for the area. it sounds like it is really a club that is allowed to go there in the guise of maintenance and non native species control. it s level of activity has slowed a bit, at least the website was updated in 2008. also google earth has a good view of it especially if you change the perspective from birdeye to a low angle.
                            the bigger the government the smaller the citizen.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Stairway to Heaven

                              If a trip is planned, I'm game. I went up once, a few months before the hullabaloo that resulted in guards being posted.
                              May I always be found beneath your contempt.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Stairway to Heaven

                                This morning I saw a yellow HFD helicopter circling the stairs and the top
                                ride where the old structure is. This was about 7 am. I went to water aerobics
                                and in the parking lot were several HFD trucks from Kaneohe and then the
                                helicopter in the playing field. The helicopter took off and we watched it from the pool. Two baskets came down with hikers. The poor fireman rescue teams had been working since 7 p.m. last night, they all finally left about 9:00.

                                What I want to know (and there will be no answer) is what IDIOTS go up and
                                hike in the downpours and rain that were on our side by the stairs ALL MORNING AND ALL the NIGHT BEFORE?????? These are the type of idiots that need to be charged for the rescue and have big guilt for endangering our
                                fireman over their stupidity. Bravo to our HFD for their commitment and
                                bravery in these time. Mahalo to all of them!

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