Worst president - Bush or Nixon?

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Worst president - Bush or Nixon?

1) In hindsight, there were only a handful of folks in Washington who knew better. And of course, you knew better, and I did not.

2) But to say there are/were no WMD's in Iraq is false. We still have the receipts. Bush may have cited numerous silly reasons for toppling Hussein, but the ONLY valid, truthful reason was that he had chemmy's. Revising history should not be a political strategy for either party.

1) Can't tell if you're being facitious, but I was indeed making the obviously correct calls all along the way right from the publicly known planning stages, as were plenty of others. It was BS right from the start and straight thru. If the so-called left leaning media had done their jobs even in the slightest towards questioning any of the many points along the way, they probably wouldn't have been able to bum-rush us into the multi-facited debacle. Of course the Dems should have also brought government to a complete halt and forced the matters big time against Bush and Cheney, and on other important issues besides Iraq. But the bottom line is the American public let them pull it all off and never did squat to raise enuf of a fuss.

2) But if you remember, as I've stated already, no one from BushCo was using chems as a reason prior to the invasion. It was all nukescare.

The truth is always worse than fiction. We don't need to embelish anything to prove the many points against Bush.
This is the 21st century, and Bush's actions are way beyond those of former presidents for that fact alone. We've had numerous pitiful examples to juxtapos the Iraq situation against, and that he even tried and then succeeded is pathetic.

But the ultimate reason that Bush is hands down the worst ever is the fact that after 9-11 his back was covered by everyone, he had all of America and the world in the palm of his hand, and what did he do? He listened to his ass, Karl Rove, and did nothing but take full political advantage against the Dems.
Bush had the most incredible chance that no one ever has had or ever will again, to be THE KING OF THE WORLD, and even I would have bowed, had he even tried to be worthy. But no.

[timkona]

Re: Worst president - Bush or Nixon?

Nope Ron. Not being facetious. Just saying the WMD's include Chem, Bio, and Nuke. We found a few. They were old. But they were there.

Perhaps Bush did mean nukes more than anything.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Worst president - Bush or Nixon?

Perhaps Bush did mean nukes more than anything.

Perhaps?!?! Try this quote on for size:

"Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud."

- President Bush, State of the Union address in January 2003.

[matapule]

Re: Worst president - Bush or Nixon?

Just saying the WMD's include Chem, Bio, and Nuke. We found a few. They were old. But they were there.

Tim, no viable WMDs were found in Iraq. You are on very shaky ground. In fact the contrary is true. You might want to read THIS. "The Center for Public Integrity asserted President Bush's administration made a total of 935 false statements between 2001 and 2003 about Iraq's alleged threat to the United States. While various inert, leftover WMDs and weapons components from the 1980s and 1990s have been found, most weapons inspectors now believe that Iraq's chemical weapons program ceased production after 1991."

Perhaps Bush did mean nukes more than anything.

You must have forgotten, Tim, that W justified his invasion of Iraq on the basis of a bogus report from the CIA (under pressure of the Administration to find something) that Iraq was purchasing weapons grade plutonium from Africa. Valerie Plame's husband (one of the inspectors who went to Africa on behalf of the Administration) blew the whistle on that one, and as payback, the Administration outted Plame as a CIA operative, ruining her career.

What is incredible is that a significant portion of the US still believes that Bush found viable WMD's in Iraq! even after Bush has denied this!

Tim, don't dig your hole any deeper. The Bush Presidency has been an embarrassment to the people of the United States. (A Sarah Palin type only from Texas) Out of Iraq NOW!

[Kalalau]

Re: Worst president - Bush or Nixon?

Bush was by far the worst president ever. The kind of leader who destroys empires. This one might not ever recover from his reckless, childish leadership.

As to WMDs, the story I tend to believe is that Saddam did indeed have some, but in obedience to the terms that ended the Kuwait War, he destroyed them. I believe the destruction of his longer range missiles is photographically documented, and destruction of nerve gas may be as well.

Maybe he wasn't such a nice fellow. However our press obediently spread the lie that Iraqi troops threw Kuwaiti babies on the floor and stole their incubators from Kuwaiti hospitals--a nice inflammatory but false story, so if our press would tell that lie maybe Saddam wasn't such a bad guy after all. However bad he was, he was certainly a strong natural counterbalance to Iran, and a secularist opponent of the Sunnis, who did 9-11. The decision to attack Iraq was just another disasterous Bush decision.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Worst president - Bush or Nixon?

I've got my complaints about Reagan (economic policies, deregulation, rise in partisan politics) and Clinton (wasted opportunities, outright boldfaced lies) as well, but sticking to the choice presented by the thread's title - I'm leaning towards Nixon, for his abuses of power, combined with his seeming inability to ever grasp the depth of his offenses against the American people. He did irreparable damage to the office of President and to the structure of our system of government. Bush II has severely eroded the historical rule of law in America, as well as greatly harming our nation's status around the globe - but I am optimistic that these are areas that can still be corrected.

[Kalalau]

Re: Worst president - Bush or Nixon?

Nixon's most lasting legacy of evil was his appointment of Rhenquist to the supreme ct. Evidently he KNEW Rhenquist had a major drug problem and put him on the bench precisely because he wanted Rhenquist as a weak minded, spineless and corrupt puppet who could be controlled. And of course it was the Republican supreme ct. that gave the presidency to Bush in 2000, sealing America's doom.

I would wager anything that when the Constitution was written, it never even remotely crossed the minds of the fathers of the country that any but the superbly qualified would ever be chosen for the Supreme Court. Yet obviously weak minded drug addicts have their special appeal to corrupt leaders like Nixon.

Ultimately the fault lies with the people for ever having put crooks like Nixon and Bush, and lightweight empty suit movie stars like Reagan into office. The two most competent presidents of the 20th century, FDR and Bill Clinton, came to power through no wisdom or skill of the voters, but mere historic accident--the Depression happened to begin under a Republican administration and the Democrats happened to nominate FDR in 1932, and Ross Perot split the Republican vote in 1992. Far too many people don't take voting as the serious business that it really is.

[scrivener]

Re: Worst president - Bush or Nixon?

Leo, it's silly to try and stick to the thread's titular topic, because it presumes that there are only two choices for worst President. If the title had been WORSE President, there could be a way for us to engage in this discussion without straying from the topic, but that's not what it says.

I have made it a project of mine (a long, slow, lifelong project) to learn as much as I can about the US Presidents, and based on my very limited knowledge right now, I would lean toward Harding. I find it interesting that there has been no mention of the other pre-FDR Depression-era Presidents, Coolidge and Hoover. Perhaps they inherited a ridiculously impossible situation, but if they couldn't fix the problem, they shouldn't have enlisted.

As for mediocrity, it would be tough to beat Fillmore. At least Carter got us Ted Koppel and Nightline and he did create the Department of Energy, a department that's going to have a meaningful impact on the success or failure of the Obama Presidency.

I am no fan of our current President and would at least put him on the shortlist, but I hope history remembers to mention some of the efforts he made toward AIDS relief in Africa, something people (except Tom Brokaw on Letterman, once) don't talk about because, well, there's this stupid war he got us into and there are those dang liberties some of us are unwilling to trade in exchange for someone's idea of safety.

I think it is inappropriate to tell someone to "sdfu" just for expressing an opinion in a thread that asks specifically for the opinion the someone gave.

[matapule]

Re: Worst president - Bush or Nixon?

Seems simple to me, let's start a new thread.

I just asked my uafi who was worse, Nixon or Bush. Without hesitating she said Bush. But she went on to say another President was even worse than Bush, someone who has already been mentioned in this thread, but I can't say his name without hijacking this thread.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Worst president - Bush or Nixon?

Leo, it's silly to try and stick to the thread's titular topic, because it presumes that there are only two choices for worst President. If the title had been WORSE President, there could be a way for us to engage in this discussion without straying from the topic, but that's not what it says.

Not silly at all, my friend. Since the o.p. stated only the two choices, that's what I chose from. Were I to open up the entire list of office holders, I'm not sure I would pick one of these two - but I am sticking with the o.p.'s very obvious intent, issues of semantics notwithstanding.

(And I never told anyone to "sdfu" - though I know you did not aim that comment at me.)

[Ron Whitfield]

Bush or Nixon?

Nixon's top 10 worst moments are long forgotten, proven by the fact that we let this creep Bush have 2 terms to pull all the same dirty tricks on us, and much much more. We havn't even tapped into the wealth of dirt this POS is guilty of, and leaving behind to yet discover and suffer thru.
The current mantra that history will be the deciding factor of his tenure, and yet further insulting that it will be kinder to him, is absurd. We don't need no stinking history to tell us what we just lived thru and barely survived!
He said yesterday that it was 'images', and things he said, that were his regrets. Like letting himself be photographed as he flew over New Orleans to view the carnage, and posting the MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner on the carrier was what gave the public the perceptions they we now hold. What a complete ass!

The only good thing about the last 8 years is that he didn't succeed in completely flipping the Supreme Court to wacko conservatism. During Obama's term/s he will only be able to replace middle of the road/left leaning judges, as the rightys are most likely going to survive and retain their power seats. That's a real shame, but at least we can hope for another sensible person to fill the Oval Office at Obama's end to continue the needed changes.

And mentioning Carter as anything close to being the worst is just stupid.
The man wasn't able to accomplish much, but at least he had the kind of heart you wish for in a leader, wasn't a crook, didn't deliberately decieve or lie, and he didn't go out of his way to be bad for the nation.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Bush or Nixon?

And mentioning Carter as anything close to being the worst is just stupid.
The man wasn't able to accomplish much, but at least he had the kind of heart you wish for in a leader, wasn't a crook, and he didn't go out of his way to be bad for the nation.

President Carter has also represented the best work that a President can do after leaving office. Most ex-Presidents sit back and do nothing but collect fat fees for speaking engagements, and hope that they will be lauded as "elder statesmen"; Carter picked up hand tools and got to work building homes with Habitat For Humanity.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Worst president - Bush or Nixon?

Carter has rather powerful in the last 20 years showing how to conduct a post-presidency.
Who else has even come close?

On FOX News Sunday, with the 'let me kiss your ass' Brett Humne doing the interview, Bush Sr. say's that Jr. was put thru a lot, AND PASSED THE TEST!

[scrivener]

Re: Bush or Nixon?

The current mantra that history will be the deciding factor of his tenure, and yet further insulting that it will be kinder to him, is absurd. We don't need no stinking history to tell us what we just lived thru and barely survived!

I'm not sure. Perspective (and the distance of time is one of the great perspectives) allows us to see a lot of things. When my dad pulled me out of the high school play (I was set to be Tommy Djilas in The Music Man) during my senior year, I thought it was the worst thing in the world, ever, and that I'd never get along with my father again. Time takes care of the little things and lets us see the bigger things from different people's positions. I'm not defending the President; as I've said, I'm no fan. But to insist that the book is written and that we know all we need to know is perhaps a bit immature.

And mentioning Carter as anything close to being the worst is just stupid. The man wasn't able to accomplish much, but at least he had the kind of heart you wish for in a leader, wasn't a crook, didn't deliberately decieve or lie, and he didn't go out of his way to be bad for the nation.

I seriously doubt any President has ever gone out of his way to be bad for the nation. I agree with you that he doesn't belong in the bottom fourth (or even third). However, I wonder how kindly the American public would look upon any President in whose tenure there were (a) a hostage situation lasting 444 days and (b) a botched rescue attempt resulting in the deaths of eight servicemen.

President Carter has also represented the best work that a President can do after leaving office. Most ex-Presidents sit back and do nothing but collect fat fees for speaking engagements, and hope that they will be lauded as "elder statesmen"; Carter picked up hand tools and got to work building homes with Habitat For Humanity.

I think Carter set a new standard. Clinton and Bush have both worked (together, even!) on projects and have become friends (not really relevant, but I still think it's cool). The wielding of their influence on causes important to them personally is really cool. I hope future Presidents take note.

[Ron Whitfield]

The book is far far from written on Bush

As stated, we have lot's yet to learn about his unAmerican actions.

Some are now trying to gloss over the mountains of horrors by Bush with his AIDS 'accomplishments' and one other minial matter that I've forgotten (it was THAT impressive!...), hoping to show something, anything, that was positive in his 8 years.
FAILURE - at every turn, is Bush's legacy, at best.