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  • #31
    Re: Organ donors, where are you?

    Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
    Organ donation depends entirely on your own personal belief in the afterlife and how confident you are that you're right.

    As for CPR, IIRC, it takes regular classes to stay current. People just have too many things going on to stop and take the time for something that might happen.

    What percentage of homes have a fire extinguisher? Kitchen fires happen. I think it's about $10-15 at a local bigbox. I would not expect the percentage of CPR trained people to be any higher then the percentage that have fire extinguishers in the home.
    As for CPR, dear boy, it does not "take regular classes to stay current." CPR, in the last 30 years or so, IME, has remained pretty much consistent. The powers that be may have changed the compression/ventilation ratios a bit (they gotta do SOMETHING fer chrissakes, IMHO, LOL) but basically, if you come upon someone who is down, not breathing, and pulseless and you do CPR to the best of your abilities and remembrances of your community CPR course you are doing a good thing and you just may save a life.
    Advanced cardiac life support practices have changed quite a bit during the same thirty years but that's a nursey/doc thing that shouldn't concern the lay public.
    Please learn CPR. It truly may save the life of someone you love. Or maybe just sorta like. Or what the hell...someone you don't give a damn about but whom you want to save just for the sake of saying "Hey I saved somebody!" Glory points.
    As far as organ donation...hmmmmm.
    I've been here about nine years now, long enough to note that some ethno/cultural groups will, in general, not GIVE, but have absolutely no qualms about TAKING. Whatever...this is not for us to judge but jeez, it's pretty awful to actually see it. We contact the ODN (Organ Donor Network) before every death and let them evaluate the patient for donation---it is mandatory that we do so. It is ultimately up to the family to decide, of course. Even if the patient has designated themselves as a donor the family can nix it (not so elsewhere, IME)..welcome to Hawaii.
    Oh...get a fire extinguisher too. Can't hurt, might help.

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    • #32
      Re: Organ donors, where are you?

      Originally posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
      Are the organs still good if you're taking certain prescription medication?
      Probably. The Organ Donor Network has definite criteria for organ donation but, IME, it does not concern itself with mundane prescription medications. The concerns are with cause of death, co-morbidities, whether or not the donor candidate was mechanically ventilated or on vasopressors, presence of cancers, age of the deceased, etc.

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      • #33
        Re: Organ donors, where are you?

        wondered how long it would be before you decloaked. a clinician's voice is quite needed in this thread.

        i would say if you are inclined to donate, make it apparent. don't eliminate yourself as a donor because you think your organs aren't good enough for whatever reason. the docs and nurses can do the necessary testing when it comes time (and of course, i hope it's a very long and happy time before anyone reaches that point!).
        superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

        "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

        nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

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        • #34
          Re: Organ donors, where are you?

          Originally posted by zztype View Post
          I've been a card-carrying organ donor since the 1980s. If I make it to the ER but I'm that buss up, give the other guy my organs and cut me loose. Better only one of us dies than both of us.
          That's my sentiment too, ZZ. If I am doomed and my innards can benefit another, bring hope where there previously was no hope, then I say go for it.
          There is no greater gift, no greater evidence of selflessness.
          And Scriv? Your apparent fear of organ robbery is so very unfounded. IME emergency services people, ER people and ICU people beat themselves nearly to death working to save the critically injured and critically ill and the organ donation thing is waaaay in the backs of their minds while they are working. The call to the Organ Donor Network is an afterthought. Sometimes we even screw up and forget to call them.

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          • #35
            Re: Organ donors, where are you?

            Of course there's always the possibility that someone might not want anything to do with organs.

            Yep. Someone might hate my guts....

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            • #36
              Re: Organ donors, where are you?

              Please tell me that I will not be giving up my organs without anesthesia...even if I'm classified as 'braindead'.
              http://thissmallfrenchtown.blogspot.com/
              http://thefrenchneighbor.blogspot.com/

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Organ donors, where are you?

                Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                If there is even the smallest chance that I might recover, I want that chance. I love life and am not willing to let go without a fight, and mock me for believing in miracles if you will, but I do believe in miracles. The only thing stopping me from putting ORGAN DONOR on my driver's license is not being convinced that my organs won't be taken from me before I'm through with them. How and where can I get that assurance? Will my next of kin be allowed to give the green (or red) light, or will someone else be making that decision? These are questions I need answered before I'll sign my name to anything.
                Whatever you do, don't watch Aloha Means Goodbye

                I think the bigger question is just when is the point of "no hope"? There have been cases when people have woken up after years, even decades in a coma. And given the limited lifespan of a organ, I don't think they wait for the body to get cold before the harvest. So at an emotional level, it just doesn't seem like the person is really dead yet....

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Organ donors, where are you?

                  Originally posted by WindwardOahuRN View Post
                  As for CPR, dear boy, it does not "take regular classes to stay current." CPR, in the last 30 years or so, IME, has remained pretty much consistent. The powers that be may have changed the compression/ventilation ratios a bit
                  The reason for the need to annually (or bi-annually, as the case may be) re-certify oneself for CPR isn't because of changes to CPR technique. The reason is mainly due to the fact that people can and do forget. Let's face it. Unless one works in the medical/rescue profession, most folks rarely (if ever) get a chance to practice their CPR skills.

                  It's true that having received CPR training 5 years ago is better than never having been trained at all. But if you work at a job where you might be called upon to act in an emergency, you stand a much better chance at saving someone's life if the technique is fresh in your mind and you have had recent opportunity for hands-on practice and repetition. Remember, you only have one chance at saving the life of a heart attack victim. It might even be a member of your family. Why squander it with a half-remembered attempt?
                  Last edited by Frankie's Market; February 17, 2009, 10:54 PM.
                  This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Organ donors, where are you?

                    Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                    I think the bigger question is just when is the point of "no hope"? There have been cases when people have woken up after years, even decades in a coma. And given the limited lifespan of a organ, I don't think they wait for the body to get cold before the harvest. So at an emotional level, it just doesn't seem like the person is really dead yet....
                    i totally get that. it's been almost ten years since my mama (grandma) passed away, and it still doesn't completely seem like she's dead. it feels more like she's away on a long trip or something. of course, that's probably just how i've dealt with my grief. from when i was born til i moved out, mama was the person with whom i spent most of my life.

                    here's a phrase i've said many times: i'm not a clinician, like WORN is. regardless, i know there are comas...and then there are *comas*. brain activity is measurable and there is an official scale that MDs use to determine how likely it is that someone will recover meaningfully from brain injury.

                    i will admit it's a judgment call, like every other medical decision is. the thing is, most physicians really want the best outcome for their patients. as WORN correctly pointed out, MDs are there to win, and winning means that the patient recovers. a phrase i often read in death summaries where a patient hadn't asked not to be resuscitated is "herculean efforts." in other words, the team is trying its darndest to bring a person back. no one who works in healthcare ever wants a patient to die (unless that person is a nutcase). every time i run across a nurse who just had a patient move on is heartbroken, even in instances where the death was expected and maybe even welcomed by the patient. so the idea that any of my colleagues would be standing there with even the tiniest bit of eagerness over a patient's bed because the deceased's organs are about to be harvested is completely disconnected from reality.

                    as for the CPR certification thing, here's the bottom line:

                    if you have ever been certified and have the time to be recertified and can actually get into a class to be recertified, by all means--get recertified and feel more confident in your skills. your loved ones will probably feel a bit more comfort knowing they have someone recently CPR-cerrtified in their midst.

                    if you were certified, say, five years ago, and (to quote WORN again) "someone who is down, not breathing, and pulseless," by all means, do not hesitate. of course, if someone nearby declares they're a doctor or nurse or EMT, give way to them or move into an assisting position.

                    if you're afraid that you might somehow screw up and be sued for it, remember that there hawaii has a good samaritan law.

                    lastly, i think practically everyone works/lives in a situation where s/he may be called upon to act in an emergency, so learning CPR is a good thing for everyone (assuming you're a proper person to administer it). you'd be surprised how many non-clinicians working in a hospital building or on the campus of a hospital building are CPR-certified, and it's not because work requires or requests it. i mean, it's not as if we have a shortage of doctors or nurses around, eh?
                    superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

                    "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

                    nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Organ donors, where are you?

                      Originally posted by cynsaligia View Post
                      i as for the CPR certification thing, here's the bottom line:

                      if you have ever been certified and have the time to be recertified and can actually get into a class to be recertified, by all means--get recertified and feel more confident in your skills. your loved ones will probably feel a bit more comfort knowing they have someone recently CPR-cerrtified in their midst.

                      if you were certified, say, five years ago, and (to quote WORN again) "someone who is down, not breathing, and pulseless," by all means, do not hesitate.
                      All that is absolutely true. But just to make my original point again, because I don't want it to be clouded by all these other things: The reason why people should make every effort to regularly certify themselves for CPR is not because CPR techniques have changed. This is an important point, and I'll tell you why.

                      My company offers free CPR class to every employee. For some, it is mandatory. But it is also offered to anyone else who is interested. Of course, not everyone's circumstances allow for them to take the CPR class. That can't be helped. But there are others who can take the classes, but decline with the reasoning, "Are the Red Cross guys bringing the same videos and pamphlets from last year? Is the CPR technique still the same? It is? Ah, then I no need go!" It is this kind of complacent attitude that I was talking about.

                      Yes, CPR itself has largely remained the same over the years. Yes, that demonstration video might have been around for awhile. But just because you've gone through it once doesn't mean everything you learned will be instantly recalled several years down the road. That is why CPR certification lasts for 1 or 2 years at the max. No one gets 5 or 10 year certification..... and there's a reason for it. I just wanted to make sure that people know the correct reason.

                      Originally posted by cynsaligia View Post
                      lastly, i think practically everyone works/lives in a situation where s/he may be called upon to act in an emergency, so learning CPR is a good thing for everyone (assuming you're a proper person to administer it).
                      Oh, absolutely.

                      Originally posted by cynsaligia View Post
                      you'd be surprised how many non-clinicians working in a hospital building or on the campus of a hospital building are CPR-certified, and it's not because work requires or requests it. i mean, it's not as if we have a shortage of doctors or nurses around, eh?
                      I'm not surprised. Anytime a cardiac arrest takes place, EVERY SECOND IS CRITICAL! Someone suddenly collapses and stops breathing while they're in the parking garage,..... what good are all the doctors and nurses working inside the hospital if they can't get to the victim in time? OTOH, CPR certified parking attendants, security guards, and anyone else in a position to be a first responder can make a huge difference in such a scenario.
                      This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Organ donors, where are you?

                        Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                        All that is absolutely true. But just to make my original point again, because I don't want it to be clouded by all these other things: The reason why people should make every effort to regularly certify themselves for CPR is not because CPR techniques have changed. This is an important point, and I'll tell you why.

                        My company offers free CPR class to every employee. For some, it is mandatory. But it is also offered to anyone else who is interested. Of course, not everyone's circumstances allow for them to take the CPR class. That can't be helped. But there are others who can take the classes, but decline with the reasoning, "Are the Red Cross guys bringing the same videos and pamphlets from last year? Is the CPR technique still the same? It is? Ah, then I no need go!" It is this kind of complacent attitude that I was talking about.

                        Yes, CPR itself has largely remained the same over the years. Yes, that demonstration video might have been around for awhile. But just because you've gone through it once doesn't mean everything you learned will be instantly recalled several years down the road. That is why CPR certification lasts for 1 or 2 years at the max. No one gets 5 or 10 year certification..... and there's a reason for it. I just wanted to make sure that people know the correct reason.



                        Oh, absolutely.



                        I'm not surprised. Anytime a cardiac arrest takes place, EVERY SECOND IS CRITICAL! Someone suddenly collapses and stops breathing while they're in the parking garage,..... what good are all the doctors and nurses working inside the hospital if they can't get to the victim in time? OTOH, CPR certified parking attendants, security guards, and anyone else in a position to be a first responder can make a huge difference in such a scenario.

                        ummmmm....okay. thanks for the passionate post, frankie. you even decorated it with big letters and bold font! awesome!

                        let me summarize the important points of this thread for everyone, and leave frankie to finding fault with something i say here so he can enjoy working himself into a frenzy:

                        if you're inclined to be an organ donor, don't eliminate yourself from the donor pool just because you think no one would want your organs. i hope it's long before you are in that position, but if/when you are, the docs will put you through an evaluation process for fitness for donorship anyway. some part of you may be worth saving, and can be used to help someone else in need. and your loved ones can take comfort that even in death, you helped someone out. what better gift in death is there but the gift of life?

                        additionally, i understand the many reasons for hesitating to donate your organs upon your death, including the fear that your organs will be harvested prematurely (eg, before you're done with them). look up the FAQs at donate life america and the organ donor center of hawaii, talk to your physician, or shoot me a PM for more information to help you make an informed decision about this, one way or another.

                        learn cpr if you can, whether your job requires it or not. if you were certified before and it's expired and you are able to get into a class, great. all the better, since you'll be more confident in your skills and more likely to be successful at proper administration. but don't let the fact that your certification is old stop you from helping someone out if they're in need.

                        beyond that, unless some more substantial point of discussion comes up (frankie's predictably giving himself ventricular tachycardia has long ceased to inspire), i promise not to harp on the above points any further. have a great day, everyone, and thank you for giving thought to both organ donorship and CPR certification. *thumbs up*
                        superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

                        "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

                        nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Organ donors, where are you?

                          I dunno...I clicked on those links and nothing was clear.

                          This comes from another site (ok, some of the posters are very strange), which by chance, I visited before I saw this thread....

                          .................................................. .................................................. ...

                          HERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "BRAIN DEAD" AND THE BRAIN DEAD DO FEEL PAIN!

                          Never be a "DONOR" THEY BUTCHER YOU ALIVE WITHOUT ANESTHESIA!!! "Donor organs" are NOT taken from really DEAD people, that would be called "cadaver" organs and THEY DO NOT USE CADAVER ORGANS!!

                          What a horrific, cruel, diabolic thing to do to someone you claim to have loved! To have their last experience in life to be butchered alive without anesthesia.

                          Lately because so many of these people REFUSE TO BE STILL while they are being butchered the doctors have taken to injecting them with CURARE to totally paralyze their muscles (but it does NOT anesthesize them, they still feel all pain but cant bat an eyelash or move anything) while they chop them up alive SO THE NURSES AND OPERATING STAFF NO LONGER RUN OUT OF THE ROOM OR HAVE NIGHTMARES OF THE "PROCEDURE" BECAUSE OF PATIENT MOVEMENT.

                          .................................................. .................................................. ....
                          Could this be true? Or partly true?

                          I'd like to think not, as donations are a good thing for the recipients....but I've heard stuff like this before.

                          (and , no, I am NOT a member of that site)
                          http://thissmallfrenchtown.blogspot.com/
                          http://thefrenchneighbor.blogspot.com/

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                          • #43
                            Re: Organ donors, where are you?

                            Too bad Senate Bill 1347 that would have gotten money from private sources via some businesses choosing to get a special business license is likely not to get heard by committee this year. A really smart idea that would NOT have had to tap the general fund and would have given funds to promote organ donation.

                            Shame on Roz Baker and her buddies that blocked it. Hold your head in shame Baker. And let's not forget Baker's Maui medical outrage.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Organ donors, where are you?

                              Originally posted by SusieMisajon View Post

                              HERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "BRAIN DEAD" AND THE BRAIN DEAD DO FEEL PAIN!


                              Could this be true? Or partly true?

                              I'd like to think not, as donations are a good thing for the recipients....but I've heard stuff like this before.

                              (and , no, I am NOT a member of that site)
                              I really don't believe that's correct. When testing for brain activity, the tests include things like pricking the patient, running the little wheely with spikes over the skin (I'm sure there's a technical name for that instrument, but I don't know it), and putting cold water in the ears. If a person could feel pain, their EEG would measure brain activity, even a small amount. I'm taking classes that overlap with neurology, and it's been a while since I've been in the classroom (since last summer), but your brain registers pain and it WOULD show up on the EEG.

                              Besides, the transplant team is completely seperate from the ER or ICU team. They aren't just lurking around in the halls waiting for someone to come rolling in. And think of it this way- that patient over there might live, but YOU are your doctor's patient. That doctor doesn't want you to die. My sister has been an ER trauma nurse for 15 years and says that the transplant team has rarely been called. It's a lengthy procedure to harvest organs.

                              As for me- I really don't care what happens to my body. I'm dead. Whatever's cheapest and helps people...go for it. Yes, I'm a donor.

                              If people don't want to be- that's their decision. But as someone upthread said, if it's out of fear, seek answers.

                              Can't think of anything creative this time

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Organ donors, where are you?

                                Originally posted by AlohaKine View Post
                                Too bad Senate Bill 1347 that would have gotten money from private sources via some businesses choosing to get a special business license is likely not to get heard by committee this year. A really smart idea that would NOT have had to tap the general fund and would have given funds to promote organ donation.

                                Shame on Roz Baker and her buddies that blocked it. Hold your head in shame Baker. And let's not forget Baker's Maui medical outrage.
                                Is it blocked? I thought it was still in Committee (to where it was referred Jan. 30).

                                Description of Senate Bill 1347 (from the Legislature's website):
                                Allows smoking in properly licensed establishments. Requires collection of smoking establishment licensing fee with proceeds to go towards organ donation education and tobacco education.

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