Organ donors, where are you?

[tutusue]

Re: Organ donors, where are you?

[...]
HERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "BRAIN DEAD" AND THE BRAIN DEAD DO FEEL PAIN!

Never be a "DONOR" THEY BUTCHER YOU ALIVE WITHOUT ANESTHESIA!!! "Donor organs" are NOT taken from really DEAD people,[...]

Then, imnsho, the same theory would hold true for an autopsy.

And, yes, Susie, I realize you quoted from a site you don't belong to!

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Organ donors, where are you?

ummmmm....okay. thanks for the passionate post, frankie. you even decorated it with big letters and bold font! awesome!

let me summarize the important points of this thread for everyone, and leave frankie to finding fault with something i say here so he can enjoy working himself into a frenzy:

Where did I ever "find fault" with anything you said in this thread? Do tell me.

Morevore, did I not concur with your statement that it is a good idea for anyone to receive CPR training? I quote myself, "Oh, absolutely."

Gee, I offer agreement and support for what you wrote,.... and this is the thanks I get.

Did you have a problem with me offering a rational explanation on your observation about why there tends to be many non-medical personnel at certain hospitals being CPR certified? All right, then. Forget about what I said and may this phenomenon continue to be a strange mystery for everyone.

And if you have a problem with me using bold font, well, that's just a tool that the good folks on HT provide to emphasize certain points. If you're reduced to criticizing my use of font and short burst of capitals letters, I'll take it to mean that the substance of what I wrote is essentially correct.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here. But I'm not afraid to defend myself against mischaracterizations, either.

[Adri]

Re: Organ donors, where are you?

I really don't believe that's correct. When testing for brain activity, the tests include things like pricking the patient, running the little wheely with spikes over the skin (I'm sure there's a technical name for that instrument, but I don't know it), and putting cold water in the ears. If a person could feel pain, their EEG would measure brain activity, even a small amount. I'm taking classes that overlap with neurology, and it's been a while since I've been in the classroom (since last summer), but your brain registers pain and it WOULD show up on the EEG. /snip

That's true. I didn't mention it because I could see how it might freak out some people but part of the testing for brain activity is to see if the person can feel pain by measuring brain wave activity in response to painful stimuli. In the case of my family member, they poked something under his fingernail to see if it provoked any brain wave activity. At the time I thought surely there must be a better way of testing and I was unhappy with the thought that he might be feeling that pain while he was helpless during the process of determining when he was brain dead but it is part of the doctors making very sure he wasn't feeling anything and he really was brain dead because response to pain is a basic brain function.

[Composite 2992]

Re: Organ donors, where are you?

When I went through surgery I don't recall feeling any pain. And I wasn't brain dead.

In fact even for days afterward I was very comfortable due to the pain killers administered directly to the site of the incision.

So I don't know if feeling pain is a good indicator of life or death.

". . . running the little wheely with spikes over the skin (I'm sure there's a technical name for that instrument, but I don't know it). . . "

That's known as a pizza cutter. :-)

One measure is whether a patient will breathe on their own without a respirator. If not, then an advance directive might say "no life support". The premise is that if one can't survive without extensive outside help, then it's best to let 'em go. Still, that's a hard choice.

Everyone has to make their own decision about what they might want done. I had to emphasize a "DNR" request for my wife's ex-father-in-law when he was doing poorly with congestive heart failure. The man's wife couldn't get the doctor to understand the advance directive despite the existing paperwork. I finally had to talk to the doctor and let him know that we understood what he was trying to do, but the doctor had to realize that he can't win them all. It was OK to let this man go (who had a very long history with a weakening heart), and the best thing he could do was to make the patient as comfortable as possible in his last hours.

So the doctor suggested increasing the morphine to ease the patient's distress, saying that it could interfere with his breathing. I said OK, and thanked him for his consideration. The doctor and I both understood what it really meant. It was what the man wanted, and what the wife wanted, too.

[surlygirly]

Re: Organ donors, where are you?

Had your doctors not pumped you full of painkillers, though, you would have been feeling pain. And even though YOU weren't feeling it, it still registers on your EEG. Your receptors just don't give your nerves the message that you're in pain.

But yeah, there's the whole breathing on your own. I mean, they administer LOTS of tests. This isn't something doctors take lightly. Nor should they.

[cynsaligia]

Re: Organ donors, where are you?

I dunno...I clicked on those links and nothing was clear.

This comes from another site (ok, some of the posters are very strange), which by chance, I visited before I saw this thread....

.................................................. .................................................. ...

HERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "BRAIN DEAD" AND THE BRAIN DEAD DO FEEL PAIN!

Never be a "DONOR" THEY BUTCHER YOU ALIVE WITHOUT ANESTHESIA!!! "Donor organs" are NOT taken from really DEAD people, that would be called "cadaver" organs and THEY DO NOT USE CADAVER ORGANS!!

What a horrific, cruel, diabolic thing to do to someone you claim to have loved! To have their last experience in life to be butchered alive without anesthesia.

Lately because so many of these people REFUSE TO BE STILL while they are being butchered the doctors have taken to injecting them with CURARE to totally paralyze their muscles (but it does NOT anesthesize them, they still feel all pain but cant bat an eyelash or move anything) while they chop them up alive SO THE NURSES AND OPERATING STAFF NO LONGER RUN OUT OF THE ROOM OR HAVE NIGHTMARES OF THE "PROCEDURE" BECAUSE OF PATIENT MOVEMENT.

.................................................. .................................................. ....
Could this be true? Or partly true?

I'd like to think not, as donations are a good thing for the recipients....but I've heard stuff like this before.

(and , no, I am NOT a member of that site)

susie, the kind of people who put up false information like that are the same people who lie about bone marrow and blood donations. scum of the earth for whom the perfect punishment in hell would be the kind of treatment they falsely claim happens during organ/blood/marrow donations. people i work with fight against this kind of determined, evil ignorance all the time. you wouldn't believe the ugly flotsam of crap is said at donor drives.

what is a more relevant concern is the sale of organs. that, however, is for another thread, another time, and another writer to start.

[Composite 2992]

Re: Organ donors, where are you?

Had your doctors not pumped you full of painkillers, though, you would have been feeling pain. And even though YOU weren't feeling it, it still registers on your EEG. Your receptors just don't give your nerves the message that you're in pain.

The sensation of pain goes from the extremities to the brain. Not the other way around.

The system the surgeon installed (Accufuser) put the painkiller directly at the site of the incision. "Pain" never even gets into the nervous system, so the brain wouldn't have registered it at all. It's the chemical equivalent of a nerve amputation.