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Gays in the Armed Forces

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  • #16
    Re: Gays in the Armed Forces

    Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
    Great post.[...]
    Agree!

    Do people really think that all gays are sexually promiscuous and, with abandon, will lust after every person of the same gender? That a gay won't be able to control himself in common surroundings? What about straights who are promiscuous and aggressive? Are they more acceptable?

    Just curious...

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    • #17
      Re: Gays in the Armed Forces

      Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
      Gives a whole new meaning to the term, "sub sandwich", huh?
      *groans*

      File this under Worse Joke I've Heard in Ages.
      Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

      Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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      • #18
        Re: Gays in the Armed Forces

        Originally posted by tutusue View Post
        Agree!

        Do people really think that all gays are sexually promiscuous and, with abandon, will lust after every person of the same gender? That a gay won't be able to control himself in common surroundings? What about straights who are promiscuous and aggressive? Are they more acceptable?
        I don't know. Let's put a straight aggressively promiscuous guy in an occupied all-girl shower room and see what happens.

        So, show of posts that any girls -- and guys too -- here want a coed barrack a la Starship Troopers?
        Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

        Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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        • #19
          Re: Gays in the Armed Forces

          Originally posted by tutusue View Post
          Agree!

          Do people really think that all gays are sexually promiscuous and, with abandon, will lust after every person of the same gender? That a gay won't be able to control himself in common surroundings? What about straights who are promiscuous and aggressive? Are they more acceptable?

          Just curious...
          Exactly the point I was trying to make 15 years ago, only much more concisely put.

          Can't think of anything creative this time

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Gays in the Armed Forces

            Originally posted by Random View Post
            Let's put a straight.........guy in an occupied (coed) shower room and see what happens.
            Been there, done that. After the first 3 minutes, it is no big deal for either gender. Obviously you have not had the experience and have no idea what to expect or the group dynamics. Try it sometime, you might be surprised - in a good way.

            So, show of posts that any girls -- and guys too -- here want a coed barrack a la Starship Troopers?
            I don't see any problem with that. In fact. things tend to be much more civilized in a coed barrack than an all male barrack. I would much prefer to be in a co-ed barrack than an all male barrack. And I have always been aggressively non-promiscuous too.
            Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

            People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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            • #21
              Re: Gays in the Armed Forces

              Originally posted by zztype View Post
              You haven't been in the military, have you? They don't have separate homosexual bathrooms, living quarters, etc.

              Kinda ujie, if you know what I mean.
              If you don't mind me putting you on the spot a little, Blaine ... do you feel comfortable explaining what about it made you "ujie"? (Great spelling of that word, btw.) I want to be sure I'm not assuming anything about you (or anyone else) in this discussion.
              Originally posted by Random View Post
              I don't know. Let's put a straight aggressively promiscuous guy in an occupied all-girl shower room and see what happens.

              So, show of posts that any girls -- and guys too -- here want a coed barrack a la Starship Troopers?
              By this logic, then, nudist gatherings should have all turned out disastrously over the decades. Yet they don't.
              Last edited by Leo Lakio; February 20, 2009, 12:58 PM.

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              • #22
                Re: Gays in the Armed Forces

                This isn't a problem unless they change how a soldier salutes or carry his weapon.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Gays in the Armed Forces

                  Originally posted by Random View Post
                  *groans*

                  File this under Worse Joke I've Heard in Ages.
                  ZZType knows my sense of humor.

                  Having worked with a summer job with a cross-gender gal (was a guy) and being part of a film crew with a lot of gays for about a month, I'm not bothered at all. They were all great to work with. However, this wasn't the military, we weren't living in closed quarters for months a a time, and I didn't have to bunk with them.

                  About 30 years ago I did end up in a small tent with someone who I soon found out was gay, and that guy couldn't keep his hands to himself. I should have "outed" him right there and then but didn't quite know how to handle it without embarrassing myself and him. Needless to say, I was pissed off.

                  If I were in a battle situation I couldn't care less what someone's orientation might be, as long as they were good team members, shot straight, and were willing to pull a trigger when the time came. But they'd still have to keep their hands to themselves. Just plain courtesy.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Gays in the Armed Forces

                    Originally posted by matapule View Post
                    Been there, done that. After the first 3 minutes, it is no big deal for either gender. Obviously you have not had the experience and have no idea what to expect or the group dynamics. Try it sometime, you might be surprised - in a good way.
                    Considering that you deliberately omitted the adjectives from my post, I'm guessing you're NOT aggressively promiscuous.
                    Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                    Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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                    • #25
                      Re: Gays in the Armed Forces

                      Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                      By this logic, then, nudist gatherings should have all turned out disastrously over the decades. Yet they don't.
                      Perhaps, but not everyone have the same mindset as nudists both male and female.
                      Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                      Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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                      • #26
                        Re: Gays in the Armed Forces

                        Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                        As for the part above - isn't that linked to a shortage of movement above the junior-officer rank? I have no personal experience, but I have heard comments from elsewhere that what happens is the officers reach a level, make some calculations on their chance for promotion - and bail. There's just no where to go.
                        It all depends on what's going on in the force at the time. I think the Air Force has been pruning recently but the Army, Marines, & Navy certainly have upward mobility. There are submariners commissioned in year group '96 who are practically guaranteed command, let alone the promotion to O-5 that precedes it. Over the last few years the Navy has been commissioning officers as old as their late 30s, just to help bolster the ranks.

                        It's a pendulum. In the early 1980s, everyone was being begged to stay Navy. Submariners commissioned from year groups in the late '60s were essentially failing Prospective Commanding Officer school but being sent to sea on submarines for "remedial" training... then given command. I was commissioned in 1982 into the "600-ship Navy" (including 125 attack submarines) but the post-Cold War drawdown put an end to those plans. By '96 BUPERS realized they'd cut too far and now the force is struggling to catch up.

                        Today's submariners (and most Navy officers) are practically guaranteed to make O-3 four years after commissioning. Some years they don't even hold a promotion board-- just a records check for DUIs or felony conviction or really really bad fitness reports. It's not unusual for a senior officer to get a phone call from a BUPERS staff officer asking "Is LTJG Shmuckatelli really this bad? Is there any way we could salvage his promotion to lieutenant?"

                        Making O-4 isn't much harder-- at least 75% overall and darn near 100% in some specialty areas. Once a Navy officer makes O-4 they're usually offered the chance to continue on active duty to a 20-year retirement. A military retirement is a darn good deal if you survive to take it-- this year my O-4 pension is $39K with a CPI COLA and cheap healthcare. Many officers get to their career's 10-year midpoint and realize that the gold ring is approaching within reach. With nearly automatic promotions and generous pensions, something must be really really bad to keep them from sticking around.

                        The retention complaints I'm hearing today haven't changed much. Too much submarine workload on sea duty and not enough family time on shore duty. Burnout & high divorce rates. In the last five years it's become expected that most Navy officers on shore duty will "volunteer" for a one-year individual augmentee tour in the desert in order to remain competitive for promotion. This despite a submariner promotion rate to O-4 of over 95%.

                        New department heads start their second submarine sea tour and realize that they're not much better off than junior officers. Their pay & benefits have grown to over $100K/year (with the prospect of an additional $25K/year bonus pay) but life is not good. Same duty roster, bigger workload, yet held to a higher standard of accountability. They look at the "fun" their XOs & COs are having, compare their future to their spouse's life (and her career, too) and decide that the Reserves or civilian is the way to go.

                        In the mid-1990s, one of my COs looked at promotion percentages and showed that it was easier to promote from O-1 to O-5 than it was to promote from E-4 to E-8. Promotion percentages start dropping off at O-6 and they're downright vicious to flag officer, but below O-6 I think today's career promotion mobility is only accelerating as retention sags.

                        I think women in the submarine force would bring much more maturity & professionalism, both among their gender and by influencing the guys to raise their own behavior standards. I'm certainly glad that I never had to compete against my spouse for promotion.
                        Youth may be wasted on the young, but retirement is wasted on the old.
                        Live like you're dying, invest like you're immortal.
                        We grow old if we stop playing, but it's never too late to have a happy childhood.
                        Forget about who you were-- discover who you are.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Gays in the Armed Forces

                          Originally posted by Nords View Post
                          I'm certainly glad that I never had to compete against my spouse for promotion.
                          Quote of the month!

                          I think most of us guys would be left in the dust by our spouses.
                          Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                          People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Gays in the Armed Forces

                            Originally posted by Random View Post
                            Perhaps, but not everyone have the same mindset as nudists both male and female.
                            Nor is everyone so sexually aggressive that they can not keep some sense of control.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Gays in the Armed Forces

                              Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                              Nor is everyone so sexually aggressive that they can not keep some sense of control.
                              Which brings my point of having coed barracks with coed shower rooms in military bases and camps.
                              Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                              Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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