Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

    Acousticlady, the saddest thing about your story is that the terminally ill partner did nothing to ensure his partner would have any say in his death or in his inheritance. He had all the power to do that with power of attorney and wills. I have worked with partners in the past who have taken care of these issues prior to illness/death. Too bad they did not.

    No matter what is decided by the HI legislature, homosexual couples do not have federal rights. They may have rights in the state they live in by civil union or by homosexual marriage laws, but no federal rights. So if your friend was a military or federal retiree, no pension benefits, no Social Security benefits. And at the rate the states are going, I don't see that it will change any time soon.

    For those who endorse civil unions/same-sex marriage, it is not time yet. And I am one who is not ready for it yet.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

      Originally posted by cyleet99 View Post
      Acousticlady, the saddest thing about your story is that the terminally ill partner did nothing to ensure his partner would have any say in his death or in his inheritance. He had all the power to do that with power of attorney and wills. I have worked with partners in the past who have taken care of these issues prior to illness/death. Too bad they did not.[...]
      Exactly. I have family who are gay. During the short time when gay marriage was legal in Calif. last year I called them to ask if they were finally going to tie the knot...after 26 years of togetherness. Nope, they said. They had been thru estate planning and all of their ducks are now in a row. They said they didn't need to take any vows to show their commitment. Their 26 year relationship spoke for itself. Everything is in writing. Whatever works for them works for me. I love those guys to death.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

        TS, your friends sound pretty married to me; smart, too.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

          This particular thread is a really intelligent, and civil, conversation. It reflects the best that HT discussions can be - thanks to you all.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

            What would Oscar winner Sean Penn say?

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

              Originally posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
              What would Oscar winner Sean Penn say?
              Regardless of what he might say and has already said, this conversation would probably become a lot less civilized!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                The way I've understood these issues over many years - there is a major difference between "civil unions" and "same-sex marriage".

                Civil is equal to "legal" and is entirely guided by state laws. Marriage is not only a civil union (you have to get a license) but also religious. The current bill is not asking for the religious part. I think that is what part of the problem is - many do not understand the difference.

                It's kind of like Pro-Choice & Pro-Life................at least in my view. I totally support Civil Unions, with no reservations. Same as I support Choice for all women. Doesn't mean I support homosexuality or abortion. It just means I believe in individual choice - whatever works or feels good for those involved. It may not be my own particular choice but I certainly don't believe in forbiding equal rights to all.

                I hope I'm making sense here because these are issues I feel very strongly about.
                "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
                – Sydney J. Harris

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                  Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
                  [...]
                  I hope I'm making sense here because these are issues I feel very strongly about.
                  I think you stated your case very well, Fran. You made total sense to me!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                    Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
                    The way I've understood these issues over many years - there is a major difference between "civil unions" and "same-sex marriage".

                    Civil is equal to "legal" and is entirely guided by state laws. Marriage is not only a civil union (you have to get a license) but also religious. The current bill is not asking for the religious part.
                    I think you're right.


                    Originally posted by DiverDown808 View Post
                    A lot of the churches rallied together to try and shut this bill down, even the big ones like New Hope and Grace Bible.
                    Big ones? What about the Roman Catholic Church or the Mormons who were so active before? The members may turn out, but those churches seem rather quiet this time around. I think anapuni808's observation may be the key.



                    Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
                    Churches that go into politics violate their tax exemption
                    Indeed. It's a tricky area. They do have a right to speak on moral issues, but must be careful about how they go about it. If the there is a consequence that the bill would result in altering their religious practices, I think they do have a right to speak out.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                      Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                      It’s very difficult to cut through the rhetoric and get the truth. Civil unions bill proponents contend that all they seek is equality for gay and lesbian couples under the law. But critics contend that this bill opens up a Pandora’s box. For one thing, will the gay community use this bill to sue churches, forcing them to conduct gay marriages?
                      Can they do that? Should they do that? We've often talk about separation of church and state (i.e., government) only to keep the churches from interfering (or dictating) government affair, but should the government do likewise?

                      Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                      What about post-operation transgendered couples?
                      Can they change the legal gender status, or under current law, their gender is based on their birth (stated in their birth certificate)?


                      Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                      Father-daughter couples?
                      While it is taboo in the moral sense, if both are consenting adults...

                      The same could be said of mother-son and brother-sister couples.

                      Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                      Cousin-cousin couples?
                      Didn't Jerry Lee Lewis married his [second?] cousin?

                      Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                      Will the passage of this bill provide any type of loophole that will enbolden organizations like NAMBLA or other pro-pedophile groups to fight laws currently restricting their activities?
                      I doubt it, since most if not all straight and gay communities would go against any adult-minor relationships.

                      Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                      And I’m sure there will come a day when animal rights activists insist that there are certain animals intelligent enough to make their own decisions. Will we then have bestiality couples?
                      I'm sure we'll get to that when we make First Contact with an advanced alien being that is nonhuman. We will have to legally addressed the difference between animals and sentient beings.

                      Besides, not all animal right activists "sleep" with their animals, if you know what I mean. Nor do I think they'll want their animal "spouse" to have Power of Attorney.
                      Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                      Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                        Originally posted by DiverDown808 View Post
                        The book of Leviticus tells us that God does not approve of same sex relationships, so a "Marriage" of two people of the same sex is a contradition to what the bible teaches.
                        The bible also teaches that masturbation is wrong. Have you been naughty DD, spilling your "seed" on the ground as the bible says? Oh the bible also teaches that eating shellfish, shrimp, and lobster is wrong. Now I know you have sinned!

                        The bible is a poor document to justify anything one way or the other.
                        Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                        People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                          I haven't been paying much attention to the coverage of this issue but I was kind of wondering if any of the Human Resources or computer programmer type of people had a say in the cost of modifying computer code or other records to keep track of martial status. For instance more than likey such record keeping might be like this:

                          S - Single
                          M - Married
                          D - Divorced
                          W - Widowed

                          So what would they use for Civil Unions? C or U? I don't think the databases themselves would be changed, but rather the reports or input rules would have to be modified to reflect the additions to the martial status field.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                            What I don't get are the folks who insist marriage is only for procreation and why don't they go about insisting that couples should make a baby first to prove they can procreate.



                            No baby no marriage.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                              Originally posted by tutusue View Post
                              Exactly. I have family who are gay. During the short time when gay marriage was legal in Calif. last year I called them to ask if they were finally going to tie the knot...after 26 years of togetherness. Nope, they said. They had been thru estate planning and all of their ducks are now in a row. They said they didn't need to take any vows to show their commitment. Their 26 year relationship spoke for itself. Everything is in writing. Whatever works for them works for me. I love those guys to death.
                              Then what is the incentive for marriage in the eyes of the government?

                              I know that Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn never tied the knot yet managed to stay together and raise a family.
                              Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                              Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                                Originally posted by DiverDown808 View Post
                                I was in a New Hope small group and was asked to participate in this rally. I said no, and that I was all for Civil Unions. You could have heard a pin drop in that small group.

                                I'm sure the same thing happened simultaneously in heaven.

                                As a Christian, I'm completely opposed to same sex marriages. "Marriage" is a biblical ceremony where two people of the opposite sex join together in front of witnesses and God, to declare a lifelong commitment to each other. The book of Leviticus tells us that God does not approve of same sex relationships, so a "Marriage" of two people of the same sex is a contradition to what the bible teaches.

                                However, two people of the same sex living together as a family unit, some with children, deserve all the rights and securities of a traditionally married couple. Civil Unions will do that. Most of the arguements from church members tend to have trouble separating a Civil Union and a Marriage, so they round it off to it just being a marriage. I think that's wrong.

                                If I'm not mistaken, you just implied that Civil Unions are not two people making a lifelong comnmitment to each other. Umm... Isn't that what it is? You just contradicted yourself.

                                Someone needs to remind them that not even Jesus judged people. That responsibility lies in the hands of God.

                                Jesus called sin a "sin". He didn't shy away from that, unlike a few mega-church pastors on TV. The apostles confronted sin as well, especially Paul. Are you saying they were wrong? Many Christians don't understand the meaning of the word "judge". Judgment comes with a sentence. No one is condemning anyone by standing up for righteousness. This is a fight over government policy and the rule of law. If you're really a Christian, then how do you live holy if you can't discern right from wrong, and live accordingly? This law will force everyone to be subject to the gay lifestyle, from our taxes to the care and welfare of children.


                                My plea to the churches would be to read the facts and approach HB444 for what it is, A Civil Union and NOT a Marriage. It's not a bill to condone the gay lifestyle, but a bill to give security to the gay families that already exist.

                                You just totally contradicted yourself here.

                                Again, YES to Civil Unions
                                NO to same sex marriages.

                                DD
                                DD, I'm shocked at what you just wrote. I can still hear pins dropping.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X