Too bad I wasn't an executive with AIG

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Too bad I wasn't an executive with AIG

I call Godwin's Law!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law

LOL!!!!! Ahhhh, you beat me to it!

In the interests of full disclosure to the HT ohana, let me say that I currently hold an AIG policy on my home and two cars. And while I formerly worked in the insurance industry, I was never on AIG's payroll, nor did I represent them in any way, shape, or form. If there is any perception of me being outspoken on the matter, it is just my desire to provide fairness and perspective on a topic where objective and thoughtful discussion has been run roughshod with emotion and anger,..... Godwin's Law being being a testament to that.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Too bad I wasn't an executive with AIG

Nuh-uh Frankie. You had better be a little more intellectually honest than that. Let's review:

Hey, who you decide to buy your auto insurance from is your business. I just wanted to state that for the fact that AIG is a HUGE company with different divisions. And not everybody is going to paint them with a broad brush like you are doing.

By all means, cancel your AIG policy if it will make you feel better. But I'll say it right here and now: Only an ignorant babooze would take their anger and frustration out on the employees working in AIG Hawaii's office. They (as well as the rest of the insurance division) had nothing to do with the company's meltdown. If you're going to express your ire to anyone, you should direct it to the rightful place: At AIG's Financial Products division in London and CEO Edward Liddy.

No one here mentioned either anger or frustration with the employees working in the AIG HI office. I did mention RC by name, precisely because I do hold the man in high regard and his opinion matters to me. I believe he could do great work in assuaging the situation; tell us that he didn't get any bonuses, nor did his staff. Tell us how hard they worked; humanize for us what it is like to have a parent umbrella under such scrutiny and public derision, yet the good things these guys are doing at the local level. AIG is a global titan after all; it won't be such a cerebral stretch to understand the HI offices appeal to the public to hang tight and keep the faith, because their policies makes good financial (and socially responsible investment) sense.

But where is their appeal? The silence is deafening. That doesn't bode well for folks like me who look at their pennies and policies and this economy and think "why don't I give it to companies with better ethics, top<-->down?"

The corollary to this is two-fold: local management silence begets all sorts of suspicion and it won't stave the customer walk-off. If the only press AIG is getting is too machi harakiri and no nuffy news interviews, then really, who is the ignorant babooze?

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Too bad I wasn't an executive with AIG

Nuh-uh Frankie. You had better be a little more intellectually honest than that. Let's review:
No one here mentioned either anger or frustration with the employees working in the AIG HI office.

And reviewing what has previously been written,..... where did I ever say that a specific person on HT was angered or frustrated with an AIG employee?

Hard to take your suggestion to be more intellectually "honest" seriously when you simultaneously misrepresent what I've actually said in this thread.

I did mention "anger and frustration" with AIG because there is a growing tide of anti-AIG populist outrage that is all too apparent in the blogsophere. To deny its existence,......

But where is their appeal? The silence is deafening. That doesn't bode well for folks like me who look at their pennies and policies and this economy and think "why don't I give it to companies with better ethics, top<-->down?"

Not being associated with or working for AIG, I can't say for sure. But it wouldn't be surprising for all of their employees (Hawaii and elsewhere) to be under a corporate gag order. It wouldn't be the first time a company under P.R.-siege resorted to such a measure.

To assume that an AIG employee's public silence amounts to a condoning of AIG's financial products division misdeeds,...... that would be the harshest judgement I've heard from anyone yet.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Too bad I wasn't an executive with AIG

And reviewing what has previously been written,..... where did I ever say that a specific person on HT was angered or frustrated with an AIG employee?

Hard to take your suggestion to be more intellectually "honest" seriously when you simultaneously misrepresent what I've actually said in this thread.

oh really. Where did I say that you said that a specific person was angered on HT?

Seriously; you make the statement and the judgement, but then you choose this road to qualify and re-qualify when called on it. Mealy, intellectual honesty, you choose. Either way, I call b.s. particularly as I am the one who specified an AIG HI employee (or in this case, CEO) by name.

I did mention "anger and frustration" with AIG because there is a growing tide of anti-AIG populist outrage that is all too apparent in the blogsophere. To deny its existence,......

who is denying that existence?

Not being associated with or working for AIG, I can't say for sure. But it wouldn't be surprising for all of their employees (Hawaii and elsewhere) to be under a corporate gag order. It wouldn't be the first time a company under P.R.-siege resorted to such a measure.

To assume that an AIG employee's public silence amounts to a condoning of AIG's financial products division misdeeds,...... that would be the harshest judgement I've heard from anyone yet.

Human nature is what it is. This is why there is PR in the world; because public opinion matters and relates directly to the bottom line. If AIG Hi doesn't figure out a way to raise their public image, then the corporate AIG image is going to take over. Harsh judgement? Nope; good business sense.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Too bad I wasn't an executive with AIG

oh really. Where did I say that you said that a specific person was angered on HT?

You were the one who said I had to be more "intellectually honest," quoted me, and then wrote (in boldface letters no less),

No one here mentioned either anger or frustration with the employees working in the AIG HI office.

So if you weren't referring to what I was saying in your boldface quote, then why were you saying that I wasn't being intelluctually honest in the first place?

Seriously; you make the statement and the judgement, but then you choose this road to qualify and re-qualify when called on it.

Look in the mirror, PM.

Either way, I call b.s. particularly as I am the one who specified an AIG HI employee (or in this case, CEO) by name.

Ah, so we finally get to the crux of the matter. If this was what was bothering you all along, why did you not mention it right away instead of writing a post that was all bark but had no bite.

You did mention Robin Campaniano earlier. Despite that, I can honestly say that you were not who I had in my mind when I talked about folks who were "angry and frustrated" with AIG. In your own words, you said that you held him in "respect." There would have been no reason for anyone here not to take that at face value.

In any case, I wasn't talking about you.

I did mention "anger and frustration" with AIG because there is a growing tide of anti-AIG populist outrage that is all too apparent in the blogsophere. To deny its existence,......

who is denying that existence?

Oh, so you are aware about the anti-AIG sentiment circulating on the net, then? If so, you've just substantiated my claim that when I earlier talked about "anger and frustration" that people feel about AIG, it wasn't specifically referring to anybody on HT.

Human nature is what it is. This is why there is PR in the world; because public opinion matters and relates directly to the bottom line. If AIG Hi doesn't figure out a way to raise their public image, then the corporate AIG image is going to take over. Harsh judgement? Nope; good business sense.

If only it were that simple in the real world. But hey, I'm not an apologist for AIG. Go right ahead and draw whatever conclusions you want about AIG Hawaii.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Too bad I wasn't an executive with AIG

Frankie, what is your point on this thread?

[Mililani]

Re: Too bad I wasn't an executive with AIG

What really gets my panties in a bunch is that these executives really believe they friggin deserve millions, despite the fact their greed and arrogance is what got them in this mess to begin with!

Poor babies are whining that they don't want their names released to the public because of the threats they've been getting. Well hell!!! These doodoo heads are getting rewarded millions of dollars while millions of people are getting laid off. And we all know whose going to be forking that bill and WITHOUT the luxury of sailing on a new yacht or flying to Europe on a brand spankin new jet!

Last I heard they have options, though. Give the money back, tax these greedy whore mongers 90%-100% of the money received, or hmm, I don't remember what the third one was. I think a senator said something about "they should commit suicide."

[StinkyTheGrump]

Re: Too bad I wasn't an executive with AIG

By all means, cancel your AIG policy if it will make you feel better. But I'll say it right here and now: Only an ignorant babooze would take their anger and frustration out on the employees working in AIG Hawaii's office. They (as well as the rest of the insurance division) had nothing to do with the company's meltdown. If you're going to express your ire to anyone, you should direct it to the rightful place: At AIG's Financial Products division in London and CEO Edward Liddy.

So you're actually going to stand by that you were not calling those canceling their AIG policy ignorant baboozes (because they are taking out their anger on local AIG employees by canceling)?
That is what PM means by a lack of intellectual honesty. I'm also calling B.S.


BTW, I was outraged when something like $15 billion was paid out to wall street employees (many of whom worked for companies that received *a lot* of government bailout money) for Christmas bonuses. Where was the outrage then?

[joshuatree]

Re: Too bad I wasn't an executive with AIG

BTW, I was outraged when something like $15 billion was paid out to wall street employees (many of whom worked for companies that received *a lot* of government bailout money) for Christmas bonuses. Where was the outrage then?

Bailout fatigue didn't set in for most people at the time. Also, a lot of people had unrealistically high expectations that Obama can magically fix the problem wait for him to take office.

[Mililani]

Re: Too bad I wasn't an executive with AIG

BTW, I was outraged when something like $15 billion was paid out to wall street employees (many of whom worked for companies that received *a lot* of government bailout money) for Christmas bonuses. Where was the outrage then?

There was outrage, but its like the story somehow got swallowed up with other issues. This time, however, the people refused to be ignored and more and more people got wind of it.

The Wall Street employees are not in the clear. The chief justice ordered the names of these people to be released. Soooo... they're running scared and afraid for their lives. As well, they should be. When the rest of the country are trying to get by working long hours and sometimes in an undignified position just to eat, while these executives are living it large, they ought to be running scared.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Too bad I wasn't an executive with AIG

So you're actually going to stand by that you were not calling those canceling their AIG policy ignorant baboozes (because they are taking out their anger on local AIG employees by canceling)?

You are putting words in my mouth. That is not what I said.

Apparently Stinky, even when my quote is in front of you, you do not comprehend.

Let me break it down for you,...... using my exact words.

By all means, cancel your AIG policy if it will make you feel better.

That is one sentence. One complete thought.

But I'll say it right here and now: Only an ignorant babooze would take their anger and frustration out on the employees working in AIG Hawaii's office.

This is another sentence. Another thought.

I attributed the description of an ignorant babooze speicifically as someone who "would take their anger and frustration out on the employees working in AIG Hawaii's office." OTOH, if someone cancelled their policy, but did so in a calm and civilized manner, then they are not a babooze, AFAIAC.

That is what PM means by a lack of intellectual honesty. I'm also calling B.S.

Then both of you need to calm down and carefully read what I actually said, instead of reading what you think I said. (Which happens to be incorrect.)

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Too bad I wasn't an executive with AIG

I call Godwin's Law!

I did not know about this - that is brilliant! (And I, therefore, have automatically lost a couple old discussions right here on HT.) Learning of this is the highlight of my day; thank you, Jewlipino.

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled name-calling.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Too bad I wasn't an executive with AIG

Frankie, what is your point on this thread?

My point is simply this. The employees working at the AIG Hawaii office do not deserve to be the target of anyone wanting to vent their anger and frustration over the bonuses being received by the AIG executives working at the Financial Products unit in London.

That's it.

If someone wanted to simply cancel their AIG policy and cease doing any business with the company, but did so in a calm and civilized manner, that's another matter entirely. Absolutely nothing inappropriate about that. If someone wanted to cancel their policy and wanted to discuss/share their reasons for doing so, but did it in a professional and non-confrontational manner, I see nothing wrong with that, either.

Now do you get my point?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Too bad I wasn't an executive with AIG

The employees working at the AIG Hawaii office do not deserve to be the target of anyone wanting to vent their anger and frustration over the bonuses being received by the AIG executives working at the Financial Products unit in London.

Am I missing something here? Did someone suggest that they would point their anger in that specific direction, or were you just the first to bring up such a scenario?

If someone wanted to simply cancel their AIG policy and cease doing any business with the company, but did so in a calm and civilized manner, that's another matter entirely. Absolutely nothing inappropriate about that. If someone wanted to cancel their policy and wanted to discuss/share their reasons for doing so, but did it in a professional and non-confrontational manner, I see nothing wrong with that, either.

I believe that's what Composite 2992 was saying he would do; I don't see him suggesting that he was going to be confrontational about it.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Too bad I wasn't an executive with AIG

Am I missing something here? Did someone suggest that they would point their anger in that specific direction, or were you just the first to bring up such a scenario?

Yes! I was the first to bring it up!

This is precisely why I wasn't calling anyone here on HT a babooze. It was just a pre-emptive statement on my part.

I believe that's what Composite 2992 was saying he would do; I don't see him suggesting that he was going to be confrontational about it.

Yes! For the last time, I didn't call him a babooze. I never said he was going to be confrontational to anybody at AIG Hawaii.

*sigh!*