Rep. Bertram’s Outrageous Comments

[Amati]

Re: Rep. Bertram’s Outrageous Comments

I said borderline. Didn't say it was. My point is that dragging staffers into this is wrong unless the staffer in question did something wrong while working for Rep. Bertram. Politicians, by dint of their public position, can and should be called out on their various hypocrisies, but I believe that the level of privacy that should be granted to staff members should be higher as for the most part they are not public personalities. Most of them aren't wannabe politicians, just people trying to make a living and possibly make a difference.

If a person commits a crime, their own history will follow them. That is one of the consequences of committing a crime. I drum it into my kids all the time. Watch out what you do today, because it can follow you into adulthood. It can affect college admission, future employment, and other opportunities throughout your life. The same holds true for adults who commit a crime - it can affect the rest of your entire life. On most job applications is the question "have you ever been convicted of a crime". The reality is that a criminal record is there for the world to see (a few bucks on the internet will bring up anyone's criminal record).

[Jewlipino]

Re: Rep. Bertram’s Outrageous Comments

So you're ok with it if I dig up your criminal record (assuming you have one) then run an ad on tv that says your company shoots kittens and just to prove it look at Amati's criminal record?

Whatever Rep. Bertram's comments were it's just kind of sad that the GOP is trying to portray him as some sort of pedo. It's even worse that they're hanging the criminal record of one of his staffers around his neck, even though the staffer served their time and Bertram had nothing to do with that whole situation. Can you come up with something better against Bertram other than "Look at this gaff he made, BAAAAAWWWW"?

<sigh> The echo chamber strikes again.

[TuNnL]

Re: Rep. Bertram’s Outrageous Comments

If a person commits a crime, their own history will follow them. That is one of the consequences of committing a crime. I drum it into my kids all the time. Watch out what you do today, because it can follow you into adulthood. It can affect college admission, future employment, and other opportunities throughout your life. The same holds true for adults who commit a crime - it can affect the rest of your entire life.

So you're ok with it if I dig up your criminal record (assuming you have one) then run an ad on tv that says your company shoots kittens and just to prove it look at Amati's criminal record?

Whatever Rep. Bertram's comments were it's just kind of sad that the GOP is trying to portray him as some sort of pedo. It's even worse that they're hanging the criminal record of one of his staffers around his neck, even though the staffer served their time and Bertram had nothing to do with that whole situation.

This is an important point that seems to be lost on HT’rs defending the GOP ad. It’s guilt by association, plain-and-simple. It’s like calling Barack Obama a terrorist because he served on an education board that also included a college professor who was anti-war radical during the 1960s. All this does is make people angry at the entity spreading absurd insinuations, and support the target of the ad even more.

[Jewlipino]

Re: Rep. Bertram’s Outrageous Comments

Just to clarify, I don't know Bertram, never met him, don't know his politics either. But I know a smear campaign when I see one, and I remember a time when the Hawaii GOP was capable of running their campaigns on something more than character assassination. They had ideals, not ideals I necessarily agreed with, but I could at least respect.

[Amati]

Re: Rep. Bertram’s Outrageous Comments

So you're ok with it if I dig up your criminal record (assuming you have one) then run an ad on tv that says your company shoots kittens and just to prove it look at Amati's criminal record?

My point was that the ad did not commit libel or slander if the statments in the ad are true.

If the ad presented "appropriate" information is a whole different question.

As to your example, if I was employed by someone who had the power to make public policy on kitten abuse, then I would have to face the reality that my being a kitten killer might indeed become an issue. [By the way, the kitten killer tag is just your example ... I actually love kittens.] That is what I warn the kids about .... your criminal record follows you.

[Jewlipino]

Re: Rep. Bertram’s Outrageous Comments

My point was that the ad did not commit libel or slander if the statments in the ad are true.

If the ad presented "appropriate" information is a whole different question.

And my point is that some of that information, while technically "true", has factors that undermine its legitimacy. So that bit about hoping Maui people watch tv was in hope that they could be misled? Wow if that's how you treat your fellow citizens I hope I don't live in your district.

As to your example, if I was employed by someone who had the power to make public policy...

Are we talking about the same person here? Last time I checked Joe Bertram was a freshman rep in a House of 51 members. He doesn't even have the power to wipe his nose without the Speaker's say so. He certainly doesn't have any sort of sway over sex crimes policy.

I think that there are other reasons that the Hawaii GOP is attacking Bertram. Some of them they wouldn't dare talk about in the open, so they focus on this gaff and the questionable conviction of his staffer (which occurred long before said staffer was employed by Bertram). Plus, he's a freshman, which makes him more vulnerable if he hasn't brought home the bacon.

[Amati]

Re: Rep. Bertram’s Outrageous Comments

I think that there are other reasons that the Hawaii GOP is attacking Bertram.

I have no clue to what you are referring. What I do know is that he made, what this thread has called, "outrageous comments". Those comments brought him under scrutiny that came about due to his own words. There are statements in the ad that have not as yet been been claimed by Bertram to be slanderous, so it can be presumed the ad is truthful.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Rep. Bertram’s Outrageous Comments

Wathcing KHON's story about online sex predator Shane Shimabuku receiving a 10 year sentence made me think about this thread and some of the issues that were discussed and debated upon. Here's what I'm thinking, nearly a year later.

1) This latest incident reinforces to me the idea that many online predators are addicted to their criminal behavior and will do it again and again until they are incarcerated. Verbal warnings and even arrests won't stop these chronics, as long as they are free and have access to a computer. Remember John Kennely? Yeah, I would prefer not to remember that disgusting slime, either. But for the sake of children, we have too. Shimabuku seems to fallen into that same category as well, continuing to entice young teenagers with explicit material even after getting caught before. The crystal meth excuse Shimabuku gave doesn't make him any less of a threat to children in the community than a predator who doesn't have a drug habit.

2) Mark Marcantonio is out and about in this state. He was given only six months of jail time by state circuit court judge Joel August, despite getting caught trying to meet a 14 year old girl in a sting operation and telling an undercover cop (posing as the underage girl) about how he previously had sex with a 15 year old girl on Oahu. Marcantonio is now free and serving probation. So parents beware, whenever you see this man. Here is a link to his photo/information on the sex offender registry.

3) Election time is coming. And a reminder to all voters living in District 11 on Maui. Remember that State Representative Joe Bertram testified in court for his friend, Mark Marcantonio, to receive a lenient sentence. Remember that his testimony is very likely one of the factors why parents in this state have to deal with being on the watch for this 53 year old sexual predator, instead of being able to take comfort in the knowledge that this man was sent to prison for many years, as he deserved. Think carefully about this, District 11 voters, before you re-elect Joe Bertram to represent you in the Hawaii State Legislature.