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  • Re: Swine Flu

    WORN, eric isn't home at the moment to reply back, but i will.

    you've heard this from your own risk management department. i will repeat it to you here: think before you speak. what you say comes with the heavy weight and responsibility of your being a healthcare professional. i'm sure you meant to chide previous posters on this thread for joking about a serious disease. what ended up happening was that you potentially inflamed the issue beyond where it needed to be.

    far from eric having "patted your nursey head" he was asking you to be more clear. your initial, breathless post verged on the alarmist with its lack of detail (and you yourself described certain aspects of your post as "brief"). i'm not talking about your refusal to violate HIPAA. i'm talking about the absolute necessity for you to write responsibly on a public discussion board while holding up your RN as proof of expertise. this is why: when you reveal that you treat patients with a disease that many in the public are afraid of (i'm sure you noticed the absolutely inane posts about conspiracy on this thread) and then reinforce that fear by calling that disease "ugly" "serious" and "no joke" without pointing out that for most people, catching the disease can be easily mitigated by simple precautions, you're being an thoughtless health care provider making a display of your expertise that has more to do with your ego and need for show versus being actually helpful and informative to a readership looking to you for guidance.

    i'll stand with eric on his statement that spanish flu really went after young ADULTS whereas the current iteration of H1N1 seems to have a fondness for children and the immunocompromised. i'll also stand by eric in the sense that with his first post on this thread, he did more googling than you did for your first post and shared what he learned for the benefit HTers who don't have a healthcare background.

    i also object to your implication that only queen's has a good ER. you know as well as i do that every hospital--including ED--has to meet the exact same standards set by the DOH, CMS and the Joint Commission. to imply that only queen's ED is "good" is irresponsible, maybe even elitist, and insulting to your clinician colleagues. yes, queen's has a trauma center. but every hospital participates in the various meetings/updates/telephone conferences with the DOH H1N1 updates. every hospital has been prepared to diagnose/isolate/treat possible H1N1 patients. had H1N1 been more contagious/virulent than it is, your words could have caused queen's ED staff more stress than it needed, with patients refusing to be diverted/asked to go to to other EDs completely and equally capable of treating them.

    i'm not dissing queen's by any means by pointing out they're the first hospital whose staff were infected by H1N1. it makes absolute sense that queens was the first simply because of the volume of patients they treat is much larger than anyone else's. but the fact that they have infected staff shows they're not significantly much more capable of caring for H1N1 patients who come into their ED than any other hospital's ED.

    the point of eric's post--and mine before it--is not to minimize the seriousness of H1N1. you're right--it may mutate into something much more serious, and the fact there is already a strain resistant to tamiflu may be a step toward that. yes, a small number of people have gotten so sick with H1N1 that you've had to care for them in your CCU. but the fact remains--most people can avoid getting H1N1 at this point--indeed, any flu, and many other diseases--with simple actions. you yourself may need a full body condom when you're at work. but you're a CCU nurse, and that's very ordinary for a CCU nurse. that's not normal for the regular healthy person walking down the street or shopping in the mall or going to the movies.

    i'll point out another thing: i may not be clinical, but bcs i'm in risk management, i get those updates from DOH and CMS et al before even you CCU nurse do. i'm not saying that to swing my dick. i'm saying that because i want everyone to know that i see the exact same CDC/DOH reports you do. in fact, i'm more likely to see the actual report whereas you get what's told to you by your manager or is dispersed via your hospital's bulletins.

    what those reports indicate is that most people who get the swine flu don't need a stay in the CCU. most are quarantined home and given antibiotics. given a couple weeks, they're able to resume normal life and go back to work/school/daily activities. you also failed to mention that the swine flu currently isn't seen as more contagious/virulent than regular flu (which is itself can be deadly) and that the DOH is no longer requiring that every person who comes in with flu symptoms be tested for having H1N1.

    that all said, thank you for taking the time to clarify and add to your first post. besides the complete mischaracterization of eric's motives and your defensive tone (which again shows that you're more interested in protecting the aura of expertise that having RN next to your name than the more altruistic desire of educating people), you did a decent job of "showing your work." ironic that you chide him for being condescending because it's actually you who's guilty of it.

    thankfully, we three can all agree on these points:
    • wash your hands frequently, using soap and scrubbing all surfaces of your hands vigorously for at least the amount of time it takes to say the pledge of allegiance in your head.
    • stay home if you're sick.
    • avoid getting close to people who are sick if you can help it.
    • use hand sanitizers esp after touching widely-used surfaces in the public (doorknobs, for example).
    • eat and drink healthily.
    • sleep well and make sure you get enough sleep.
    • call your doctor if you have flulike symptoms. if you have fever of 100 degrees or more, go to the ER if your doc can't see you that very same day.


    update: we now have a confirmed second swine flu-related death in hawaii. one of the comments to the HonAdv story contains a good-to-know stat: for the same time period: swine flu killed 600 or so people whereas regular flu killed 6,000. geewhiz, regular flu sounds like it can be an ugly, nasty, serious disease that hits hard, too! no joke!
    Last edited by cynsaligia; July 11, 2009, 11:39 AM.
    superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

    "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

    nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

    Comment


    • Re: Swine Flu

      :::sigh:::

      Talk about defensive here, LOL.
      I know condescension when I see it, my dear. All the grandiose displays of defensive accusations can't obscure it. "Asking me to be more clear..." lol yet again. And no, I will not ignore it. Nurses are expected to be subservient shufflers far too often. Not much goes over my head, especially in that department.
      C'mon now. Methinks there is much more to your response than just what we see in that post but I'll let that go. And ER's are all the same? Really? And you're in risk management?
      Not caring to address the insults nor the overblown tirade any further I'll bid you adieu.
      To all others (who I doubt misconstrued my original post and instead viewed it as a mere contribution to the thread and hardly a call for hysteria, quarantine, or wholesale panic) I apologize if my post caused undue concern. I doubt that it did, seeing that what I posted was already common public knowledge but just in case, sorry about that.
      Stay safe and stay well.

      Comment


      • Re: Swine Flu

        Originally posted by WindwardOahuRN View Post
        :::sigh:::

        Talk about defensive here, LOL.
        I know condescension when I see it, my dear. All the grandiose displays of defensive accusations can't obscure it. "Asking me to be more clear..." lol yet again. And no, I will not ignore it. Nurses are expected to be subservient shufflers far too often. Not much goes over my head, especially in that department.
        C'mon now. Methinks there is much more to your response than just what we see in that post but I'll let that go. And ER's are all the same? Really? And you're in risk management?
        Not caring to address the insults nor the overblown tirade any further I'll bid you adieu.
        To all others (who I doubt misconstrued my original post and instead viewed it as a mere contribution to the thread and hardly a call for hysteria, quarantine, or wholesale panic) I apologize if my post caused undue concern. I doubt that it did, seeing that what I posted was already common public knowledge but just in case, sorry about that.
        Stay safe and stay well.
        there you go again, WORN. "all ERs are the same?" so NOT what i said.

        if you think there's something more behind my coming after you, YES. i don't like it when someone mischaraterizes what eric says, even more than when i'm mischaracterized. YES, i hate it when someone uses their profession as if by mere mention of it, everyone should take what you say as complete and utter fact even tho what you do say is far from complete and therefore very easily could have been overblown by others not as well-versed in H1N1 as you should be. YES, i hate when a clinician is irresponsible. working in risk management (and also having worked with med mal plaintiff attys) i see it more often than i would like. your all-too brief and sensationalist initial post? less than responsible, and less than befitting someone with your creds.

        if you think that risk managers have a role that works against clinicians on the floor and that's the attitude i take, well, i feel sorry for you.

        if you think that there's something more than that, i welcome you to spill what you think my so-called ulterior motive is, here, in public. last year, i made the mistake of trusting you with my name, my actual job title, and where i work in a PM on a different subject (with the intention of alleviating certain concerns you had for friends of yours)--something maybe only five people on HT know. i'm thinking you're implying that what you know about me automatically colors my responses to you.

        funny--you never returned the professional courtesy i gave you and told me who you are and where you work.
        Last edited by cynsaligia; July 11, 2009, 01:23 PM.
        superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

        "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

        nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

        Comment


        • Re: Swine Flu

          Originally posted by WindwardOahuRN View Post
          But there is one glaring similarity that we are seeing now (and which is clearly evidenced by the stats pertaining to ages of H1N1 victims published by the CDC) and that is the propensity of the virus to affect the young. This is what I very briefly referenced in my previous post. This trend has been noted not only by our own public health organizations but by those in Canada and Mexico. The evidence is not just anecdotal in nature. The statistics clearly show it.
          MPB, since you have an aversion to "statistical diarrhea" I'll refrain from posting the stats here. I suggest you google to your heart's content. The information is out there.
          That is one glaring point you were wrong on and are still wrong. Show us the documentation that the Spanish Flu of 1918 had a propensity to affect the young. And by "young" I'm sure you mean those who would normally fall under the care of a pediatrician. I have Googled to my heart's content, and Stanford University, the World Health Organization, CDC and the visiting outbreak expert that MyopicJoe heard all say you're dead wrong.

          CDC on Spanish Flu. CDC on H1N1 and which populations would be best to vaccinate first (eg, are the most likely to be infected first). WHO on Spanish Flu (pdf, page 2). WHO again on Spanish Flu (pdf, page 3) Stanford University info. (Here I am, again providing sources to back up what I say, not just resting on my degree as laurels, as you are wont to do.)

          Yes, I do have an aversion to "statistical diarrhea." However, in my case I was being self-deprecating in pinching it off. You've yet to start a movement judging from the content of your posts. Using privacy as cover for making provocative blanket statements without being able to produce referential or statistically significant sources is just sad and lazy for someone who is speaking in their area of expertise. Of course if you were working in healthcare during the 1918 Spanish Flu outbreak, I'll happily take back any criticisms. I'd be foolhardy to risk having my head chopped off.
          Originally posted by WindwardOahuRN View Post
          :::sigh:::

          Talk about defensive here, LOL.
          I know condescension when I see it, my dear. ...

          To all others (who I doubt misconstrued my original post and instead viewed it as a mere contribution to the thread and hardly a call for hysteria, quarantine, or wholesale panic) I apologize if my post caused undue concern. I doubt that it did, seeing that what I posted was already common public knowledge but just in case, sorry about that.
          Stay safe and stay well.
          Perhaps you meant to say that you know condescension when you yourself excrete it, my dear. Google "condescension" to your heart's content and you'll find that I'd have to consider myself your professional superior in order to be guilty of said offense. Since I've never purported to be a physician or even play one on TV, I plead not guilty. And since you've plainly mischaracterized my original post to the degree of digging for pejorative gold, I'd like to kindly suggest you take a good, long look in the mirror. I wouldn't want any of Hawaii's valuable healthcare providers to fall victim to professional insecurity.

          Speaking of victims, I'd like to wish the five Queen's doctors and nurses infected with H1N1 a full and speedy recovery. If the spread of Swine Flu continues to accelerate, their services will be sorely needed. I hope we can all agree, however, not to exploit this phase six pandemic as an opportunity to shill for any particular healthcare institution. Insinuating monopolized expertise is needed to treat what is, at this point, mostly an easily identifiable and treatable illness makes you suspect as a credible source.
          "If it's brown, it's cooked. If it's black, it's f***ed" - G. Ramsey

          Comment


          • Re: Swine Flu

            Originally posted by MixedPlateBroker View Post
            Since I've never purported to be a physician or even play one on TV, I plead not guilty.
            I've played a nurse on TV!!
            ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

            Comment


            • Re: Swine Flu

              Originally posted by turtlegirl View Post
              I've played a nurse on TV!!
              LOL!! do you have it on youtube? if so, share! between winning the MJ tix & having acted on TV, you're an HT celebrity!

              like kaonohi, we're one degree away from someone who caught H1N1. eric's coworker, who has a job where she constantly deals with the public, was the unlucky one. she was quarantined at home and given antibiotics. she told eric it was the most horrible flu she ever had, with unpleasant expulsions from both ends. she stayed in her room alone until she got well, with her family members knocking on her door and leaving a tray with food for her to eat (not that she could eat much). when eric asked her if she got bored and ended up playing a lot of video games, she merely laughed and said, no--she was flat on her back and passed out most of the time. in any case, she's now well and back to work, where (surprise!) more dispensers of alcohol gels have proliferated for both employees and clients to use.

              my friend's mother shared a story of how the swine flu scare has made even government officials act irrationally. i can't say too much about what my friend's mother does or for which department of what part of the government she works. we'll call her dora. while at a 4th of july party, dora told us how a government official called her and demanded to know the names of those who were possibly infected with swine flu. now, this government official does not work in a capacity where she needed to know names. when dora refused, caller tried to bully her. finally, dora had to tell her that she would have to put the request with rationale for request in writing as well as an acknowledgment that doing so violated federal privacy laws, and submit such request to dora's boss (who very much outranks the caller). that was finally enough to cow the government official, who slammed the phone down.

              dora suspected that the government official, for reasons dora told us but i cannot reveal, had personal reasons for trying to get those names, and was giving into hysteria about the disease. dora reported the incident to higher ups and the caller was reprimanded.
              superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

              "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

              nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

              Comment


              • Re: Swine Flu

                For everyone's information, there are 211 recorded deaths in America this year from Swine Flu. Meanwhile, 36,000 people in American die every year from the ordinary flu strain.

                I'm really losing sleep over this one...

                Comment


                • Re: Swine Flu

                  If you catch it you'll lose about 2 weeks worth.
                  https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

                  Comment


                  • Re: Swine Flu

                    Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                    If you catch it you'll lose about 2 weeks worth.
                    Supposedly the current symptoms of H1N1 aren't *that* bad. I rarely get the flu but 3 or 4 years ago I had a terrible flu that knocked me on my keister for 9 days and was responsible for killing off nerve endings in my nose. Hence, my lack of smell and taste. From what I've read about H1N1, it's milder than what I had. Sure wish that awful flu had been swine 'cuz I'd probably have enough antibodies to avoid it this go around and in the future. Just gotta keep my immune system in top notch, working order!

                    Comment


                    • Re: Swine Flu

                      Beware of this new variation:
                      http://www.nataliedee.com/071309/pandemic-twine-flu.jpg

                      Comment


                      • Re: Swine Flu

                        Haha, Leo! that's cute!

                        Comment


                        • Re: Swine Flu

                          +1

                          it totally had me in stiches!! *snortsnort*
                          superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

                          "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

                          nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

                          Comment


                          • Re: Swine Flu

                            Sorry, but what was so funny about that!?

                            Comment


                            • Re: Swine Flu

                              If we gotta esplain, you ain't gonna get it.

                              It's kinda like the other one.

                              It's just a funny play on words. I guess folks find humor is different places. Sometimes you just gotta laugh instead of moaning.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Swine Flu

                                Originally posted by cyleet99 View Post
                                If we gotta esplain, you ain't gonna get it.

                                It's kinda like the other one.

                                It's just a funny play on words. I guess folks find humor is different places. Sometimes you just gotta laugh instead of moaning.
                                Hey, moaning is designated for something else..!

                                Comment

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