Islam Day - Hawaii Politicians just plain crazy?

[TuNnL]

Re: Is Hawaii Politicians just plain crazy

Christmas is a secular holiday - or should I say a commercial holiday? I don't think it counts, in spite of the name, except to those who celebrate it religiously.

That’s absurd! Millions of people worldwide “celebrate it religiously.” Just because Christians have invited non-believers to participate in birth of Christ, doesn’t mean the holiday “doesn’t count.” What does the star at the very top of the Honolulu City Lights Christmas tree represent? A majority of Americans have turned against the Iraq War and a sizeable group are against all forms of war. On Memorial Day, do the veterans who gave all for the country “no longer count”? A holiday can be “secular” and/or commercially exploited while fully retaining its religious connotations. I can’t think of a holiday which demonstrates this more.

[leashlaws]

Re: Islam Day - Hawaii Politicians just plain crazy?

I've long thought Thanksgiving should be considered a "religious" holiday --- after all, to whom were the Pilgrims supposedly giving thanks, the Indians in the 'hood? (Yeah - the later waves of Euro-settlers sure did thank 'em over the years, almost thanked 'em outta existence.)

In our house when I was growing up we always 'celebrated/observed' June 25 the date of Custer's Last Stand.

[Kaonohi]

The Holidays we have. Religious or secular, or both?

That’s absurd! Millions of people worldwide “celebrate it religiously.” Just because Christians have invited non-believers to participate in birth of Christ, doesn’t mean the holiday “doesn’t count.” What does the star at the very top of the Honolulu City Lights Christmas tree represent? A majority of Americans have turned against the Iraq War and a sizeable group are against all forms of war. On Memorial Day, do the veterans who gave all for the country “no longer count”? A holiday can be “secular” and/or commercially exploited while fully retaining its religious connotations. I can’t think of a holiday which demonstrates this more.

Perhaps my meaning wasn't expressed clearly enough. I didn't intend to diss Christmas. What I meant was that Good Friday being a state-sanctioned holiday in a state that has a significant portion of people in religions who don't even know what Good Friday is, is different than Christmas, which is celebrated as an American Holiday by non-Christians and a holy day by Christians, so there's no issue of separation of church and state, because Christmas has been used by non-Christians to enhance commercial interests, which IS in the purview of the state.
(Interesting side-note: there are Christians who do NOT celebrate Christmas!)
As far as the star at the top of the Christmas tree, I don't have a clue what it stands for. A five-pointed star can be a Pagan symbol (Wicca - the pentacle), as is the evergreen tree. Generally it is recognized by scholars that as Christianity moved into pagan areas they adopted certain pagan symbols to ease the transition. Eggs and rabbits for Easter, symbolizing fertility, trees and stars and elves for Christmas, symbolizing the rebirth of the sun (Dec 21st) and immortality and rebirth.
Stars aren't common in Christian symbolism, and strangely enough, seven-pointed stars are often used in Christian churches. In fact, before 600 A.D., even crosses were not used as Christian Symbols. Constantine started that.
Allow me to apologise if anything I said offended you.

[TuNnL]

Re: The Holidays we have. Religious or secular, or both?

As far as the star at the top of the Christmas tree, I don't have a clue what it stands for. A five-pointed star can be a Pagan symbol (Wicca - the pentacle), as is the evergreen tree ... Stars aren't common in Christian symbolism, and strangely enough, seven-pointed stars are often used in Christian churches.

The star represents the Star of Bethlehem, a star that lead the three kings to the Messiah. There were prophecies that told of a star and a Messiah that would save the people. Some people believe it was not the star of Bethlehem, but the North Star that did the job. However this has always remained a question of debate.

Here’s another link to the beautiful Star of Bethlehem adorning Mufi’s Christmas tree at Honolulu Hale, courtesy of the city’s website.

Allow me to apologise if anything I said offended you.

No apology needed. I think your explanation both public and via private message were quite clear and thoughtful.

[Kaonohi]

Love.

The star represents the Star of Bethlehem, a star that lead the three kings to the Messiah. There were prophecies that told of a star and a Messiah that would save the people. Some people believe it was not the star of Bethlehem, but the North Star that did the job. However this has always remained a question of debate.

Indeed.

Since most of our current religions have their roots in what we would call 'ancient' times, there will always be debate. There are some who compare Jesus' acts to the initiation rites of the cults of Isis in Egypt and other mystery religions in Greece and elsewhere. Speculations abound!

Thank you for the erudition re: the Christmas Tree Star - my Catholic upbringing never sought to enlighten me on that one. You gotta watch out for those Persian Magi (astrologers) though - they also visited Nero (according to historical accounts) and proclaimed him "King," many years later.

For me, Jesus' most important act was his pronouncement of a "new commandment."

"A new commandment I give you, that you love one another as I have loved you." (Italics mine.)

What a wonderful would it would be if we all could practice that level of acceptance, forgiveness and recognition of our unity. And even if we could have the faith of a grain of mustard seed, enough to heal, even, as Jesus taught.

Boy, this sure could turn into a controversy far from the OP, so I'd better shut up now.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Islam Day - Hawaii Politicians just plain crazy?

The rhetoric heats up over the Islam Day resolution.

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...WS23/905310377

Gov. Linda Lingle's office reported receiving 315 e-mails and 40 calls objecting to Islam Day. About a third were from Mainlanders stirred up by accounts of the resolution on Fox News, CNN and other outlets.

In her May 11 appearance on "The Mike Buck Radio Show" on KHVH, Lingle called the resolution "just unnecessary" and said it was attracting the wrong kind of attention for Hawai'i.

"It just received ridicule all across the country. Everybody knows that the country and all 50 states are facing these historically difficult economic times. I think it's just an expression of them being out of touch," she said.

The governor obviously has a right to express her opinion on the matter. But it's ironic, isn't it? She's feels the resolution is "unecessary" because it is attracting negative attention and publicity for our state. But doesn't the guv realize that her comments are also adding fuel to the fire?

Sens. Fred Hemmings, R-25th (Kailua, Waimanalo, Hawai'i Kai), and Sam Slom, R-8th (Hawai'i Kai, 'Aina Haina, Kahala), the lone Republicans in the Senate, objected to HCR 100, citing Islam's connection to international terrorism.

"It's the old cliche: Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim," Hemmings said.

Boy, Fred Hemmings has done some pretty boneheaded things in the past, but this one tops it all!

"All terrorists are Muslim?" Is Hemmings so ignorant of history/current events that he is unaware of the terroristic violence in Northern Ireland? Is he not aware that the terrorists in that conflict have either Catholic or Protestant backgrounds?

"All terrorists are Muslim?" Can Hemmings link Oklahoma City bombers Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols to the Islamic religion? Can Hemmings link the KKK members responsible for the 1963 firebombing of a Black Baptist church to the Muslim faith?

Hemming's "All terrorists are Muslim" statement makes Rod Tam's "wetbacks" comment sound enlightened, in comparison!

Also opposing Islam Day, but for different reasons, was Big Island Sen. Josh Green, D-3rd (Kona, Kohala) and the American Civil Liberties Union of Hawai'i. Both objected on the grounds it violates the constitutional separation between church and state.

"The Legislature should not be picking and choosing among religions to honor, no matter how well-intentioned the action," said ACLU senior staff attorney Daniel Gluck in a statement.

He said the ACLU also opposes Buddha Day, Baha'i New Year's Day and Bodhi Day.

But apparently, not Christmas or Good Friday. The Hawaii chapter of the ACLU has no problem criticizing the state legislature of "picking and choosing" which religions to honor, when they as an organization are selective in deciding which religious days they will oppose. So much for the ACLU being a beacon of consistency on this matter.

[Random]

Re: Islam Day - Hawaii Politicians just plain crazy?

Personally, there shouldn't be any holidays. "Holiday" is a bastardized form of "Holy Day" (just so the secular folks can accept a word to mean "you don't have to go to work").

[Barry]

Re: Islam Day - Hawaii Politicians just plain crazy?

Personally, there shouldn't be any holidays. "Holiday" is a bastardized form of "Holy Day" (just so the secular folks can accept a word to mean "you don't have to go to work").

As I was brought up as Catholic, we never studied other religions. So can I ask if they have the same Holy Days as us ? Certain religions do have Divali at Christmas time (the festival of light) It is a holy time for them and a time to rejoice. I'd just like to know what the thought process was that went into this declaration. ?
I can take this further by giving examples of what has happened in this country but don't want to bore you.

[matapule]

Re: Islam Day - Hawaii Politicians just plain crazy?

"I'm an Athiest, and thank God for it."

George Bernard Shaw, Irish philosopher.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Islam Day - Hawaii Politicians just plain crazy?

The Advertiser has posted a schedule of events for the upcoming Islam Day festival at McCoy Pavilion.

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...mutual+respect

Michael Tsai's article does touch upon the continuing controversy surrounding Islam Day.

Sen. Sam Slom, one of three legislators who voted against the resolution, expressed frustration that he and others who oppose the celebration have been unfairly characterized as ignorant racists.

Well Sam, when you don't come right out and condemn one of your fellow senate colleagues (Fred Hemmings) for saying in the Advertiser, "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim," it's only natural for some folks to wonder if you two voted against the Islam Day resolution for the same reason. A sharp minded politician would have spoken out instead of letting himself get lumped into the ignorant racist camp. Ah, but that's why representing the most conservative district in the Hawaii State Senate is the farthest you will ever get in politics.

In a more general sense, Slom said, he is discouraged by the seeming privilege afforded designations like Islam Day over other efforts to celebrate or recognize events important to those who hold more conservative American values.

Citing peripheral matters as reasons to oppose Islam Day? Weak arguments, if you ask me. And this kind of talk sounds very self-centered. Why does everything else have to revolve around the values of "conservatives" like Slom?

He cited lackluster observances of 9/11 (including President Obama's designation of the 9/11 anniversary as a "day of service") and the state's cautious approach to marking the 50th anniversary of Hawai'i statehood.

"We can 'celebrate' the contributions of Islamic culture, but we have to 'commemorate' not 'celebrate' statehood?" he said. "I went to the statehood conference at the Convention Center and it was blah. Everybody from the state and city was on tippy-toes not to offend anybody. Yet we can celebrate Islam Day? It just rubs more salt in the wound."

If Sam Slom wanted more festivities to take place during 9/11 and the golden anniversary of statehood, then maybe he and other like-minded folks should have stepped up to the plate and did something about it. At best, it appears that Slom would rather selfishly rain down on the efforts of those who want to celebrate Islam Day in order to sate his discontent with the way 9/11 and statehood was commemorated. At worst, Slom is simply using these other events as a convenient excuse.

Slom and others like him are entitled to their opinions, of course. Nobody is forcing them to take part in any of the celebrations taking place on Sept. 24. I just hope that such ones watch the tone of their rhetoric. The last thing we need is for some right-wing looney to commit some kind of act that disrupts what is supposed to be a peaceful day of celebration for Muslims at Ala Moana Park.

[Vanilla]

Re: Islam Day - Hawaii Politicians just plain crazy?

My question about this is a simple one: with the State of Hawai'i (and the whole country) in terrible ---devastating---financial shape, can anyone make the argument that this is what our elected officials should be spending their precious time on? Are there more pressing matters at hand?

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Islam Day - Hawaii Politicians just plain crazy?

Pretty soon there should be simply no holidays but days of remembrance. That way you can celebrate it by taking your vacation day off. Most holidays nowdays seem to be a reason to have a huge one day sale anyway.

If you're a Christian (like me) then take those days off as it applies to your religion using your vacation time. That way it doesn't impose on others who have different views. If you're a Muslim, then whatever take that day off using your vacation days.

So get rid of all holidays and replace it with one day or one week proclaiming it as Pick Your Holiday day or week. Everybody takes the day off and celebrates whatever they want at the same time, then we all go back to work.

[SusieMisajon]

Re: Islam Day - Hawaii Politicians just plain crazy?

The OP is one sick puppy.

[Vanguard]

Re: Islam Day - Hawaii Politicians just plain crazy?

If you're a Muslim, then whatever take that day off using your vacation days.

Funny you should mention, the Eid Al-Fitr holidays take place today and tomorrow (starting yesterday).

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Islam Day - Hawaii Politicians just plain crazy?

Funny you should mention, the Eid Al-Fitr holidays take place today and tomorrow (starting yesterday).

I'll be looking for the sale ads in the paper!