The Natatorium, a goner?

[Vanguard]

Re: The Natatorium, a goner?

Keep in mind this could happen to WWII and Vietnam monuments too. Just because the families of those who died in WWI and their immediate families and the survivors and their immediate families are no longer around does not mean you should forget the sacrifices of those people.

There is one known American World War I veteran left. Frank Buckles; 108 years old.

[Kaonohi]

Hawaii important sites, each a goner?

1) I agree, there should have been much more attention to the problem and more voices towards it from before it was closed.
2) That's what the Bishop Museum said about the Falls Of Clyde, and now we fully know that was BS.

There is plenty to salvage from the pool area inward and can be made very stable.

My plan gives new life to The Nat and provides many varied and sorely needed jobs, allows for a world class venue that would help attract visitors and locals to Waikiki, plus helps educate and continue the pool's many historic moments and people's legacy for generations to come.

I call this: "Welcome to Hawai`i!"
We get all worked up about an issue, then practical concerns (paying the rent or mortgage, sending the kids to school or summer camp, etc) take precedence and the matter dissipates, just like our "elected" officials want - so they can go back to "Business as usual."

H-3 'Buries' a unique Hawaiian religious site (heiau). Most archaeologists knew the score and pandered to the state-federal mandate in order to keep their reputations and jobs. Archaeologist Buddy Neller protests this sell-out -travesty, and soon fades into obscurity. Others preserve their position.... Pat? Yoshi? were you sell-outs? I know Marion was not!

Stairway to Heaven - the Coast Guard built aluminum stairs were accessible for years and years. All one needed was to sign in at the LORAN station at the head of the valley. Gee, weren't the feds accommodating? So when satellites made LORAN redundant, the State closed the stairs. Gee, some vandals took out a section or two. The State dropped the ball on one of the most important accesses to the top of the Ko`olaus. Why?

Sacred Falls - Need I say more? I went there for years, and never got killed. Stupid people die - fact of life.

Falls of Clyde - of historical importance, for sure, but it should have been hauled up onto land, where it could last.

So what's next? The Aloha Tower? More prime real estate! Sell the Natatorium so the Outrigger Canoe Club can expand.

I kinda liked government by, of and for THE PEOPLE. Where did it go?

[Ron Whitfield]

All plans NOT reviewed

www.starbulletin.com/news/hawaiinews/20090529_natatorium_plans_viewed.html

It would be 'a good process in making a fair decision' IF more proposals were being considered.
To leave the decision making to a few whom it seems will be only discussing 4 possibilities.
1) complete demolishion
2) do nothing
3) remove the pool and relocate the facade
4) complete renovation, is NOT a good process.

#s 1 & 2 are not worthy of a competent discussion
#3 is ignoring the fact that it is probably impossible to accomplish without major or complete destruction
#4 while infinitly better than the rest, doesn't represent credibility towards success and especially without major $ letigious actions involved for many years.
Plus, these plans don't have any notions towards utilizations of the memorial that could be of great value to the community (as I've suggested and as former Mayor Harris once proposed), beyond merely as a reconstituted pool.

This is not going in a direction that will prove to be in the communities best long run interests.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: All plans NOT reviewed

This cartoon sums it up best.



Hey, I have a simple suggestion for this task force. It is an idea that will best fulfill the original intention of the memorial designers to have people walk in through the arches and to swim in a saltwater pool, but do so in a manner that is affordable and practical in a 21st century world. Let people walk through the restored memorial arches and swim in the biggest saltwater pool there is: the Pacific Ocean!!!

Nah, that would be too much common sense for a City and County taskforce to deal with.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The Natatorium, a goner?

One thing that I would hope gets discussed at these task force meetings and to clear up one big shibai that the Friends of the Natatorium has gotten away with for much too long in their obsession to save the saltwater pool at all costs:

When, oh when, will someone call them out on the lie, "No war memorial in this country built to honor vets had ever been demolished in whole or in part." Folks, this is not true. I present to you exhibit A: Buffalo's War Memorial Stadium. For many years, this was the former home of the Buffalo Bills pro football team as well as various minor league baseball teams. It was even the site where much of the filming for The Natural (starring Robert Redford) took place. Here is a pic of the plaque.

http://rockpile.buffalonet.org/

A lot of historic moments took place at War Memorial Stadium. But when all the pro sports teams moved out to more modern facilities, the decision was made to demolish the stadium. The fact that the stadium "honored" vets of the armed forces didn't stop Buffalo's civic leaders from making an intelligent and sensible decision. And so almost everything was torn down. The only things that remain are the field itself and a part of the stadium's facade.

http://www.littleballparks.com/Stadi...uffalo_old.htm

If you ask me, tearing down the old grandstands to create a more open spaced and publicly accessible community sports complex made infinitely more sense than keeping a large, decaying, vacant old stadium standing. I give credit to the people of Buffalo. It didn't take them 30 years to make the smart and logical decisions on what was best for their community. Too bad the same thing cannot be said for Honolulu. Keeping a vacant, obsolete, unusable, and deteriorating Natatorium for the last 30 years, just to pacify a loud minority? As they say, "Only in Hawaii!"

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: The Natatorium, a goner?

This cartoon sums it up best.

That cartoon represents nothing but the lack of thought towards a worthwhile sollution that benefits the entire state while maintaining the elegance of it's importance.

If you ask me, tearing down the old grandstands to create a more open space...

Want more space? Go across the street to the vast expanse of little used Kapiolani Park, or any of the areas all around The Nat.
Plenty of room.
Expand Kaimana Beach? On an island full of beaches..., and again, once The Nat is gone, so will be any remnants of Kaimana Beach.
This 'tear it down for Nike Town' mentality is responsible for innumerable waste of history and heritage in Wakiki, and Hawaii in total.
Nike Town; they leveled a fine old part of Waikiki's past, The Kuhio Theater, so they could build the oh so wonderful Nike Town complex that now sits almost completly vacant and will be 100% empty once Nike finally digs. That was an excellant decision..., and just one of many like it that have proven ignorant to those that had no foresight, after the damage was done. The once Waikiki Theater is another example that showcases a bunch of junk shops instead of the historic and classic venue. Sick.

Yes, let's hurry and tear it down...

[Kaonohi]

Re: The Natatorium, a goner?

"Do we need it?"

Yes, we need a war memorial to honor the 101 men from Hawai`i who gave their lives in WW I. "The Great War"

It's also a part of our island history!
"For generations, the Natatorium was a popular recreational gathering center for local Hawaiʻi residents and tourists. Inside the memorial is a 100 meter by 40 meter salt water swimming pool. Its historical patrons included Olympians Buster Crabbe, Johnny Weissmuller and local Duke Kahanamoku."

It's also marked for preservation!
"The Natatorium was added to the National Register of Historic Places in 1980."

"Can We Afford It?"
Not all of it. Recent estimates have concluded that if the pool was removed and converted to beach and groins, the facade and bleachers can be preserved adequately.

A salt-water pool at the edge of a gentle beach seems redundant. As opposed to the salt-water pool at Black Point, where the ocean is fierce.

"Do we have any say? Do our opinions matter?"
Not during an administration that says, "Steel wheels on steel rails: my way or the highway!"

So grumble, but I think they're going to do what they want no matter.

[Barry]

Re: The Natatorium, a goner?

A war merorial to Hawaiin heroes is a very deserving cause. I would certainly contribute. How's about something next to Dukes statue with the names of all those brave people on it ?

[salmoned]

Re: The Natatorium, a goner?

Why not put a/the WWI memorial in Punchbowl? We gather remains together and put them in cemeteries, why not gather memorials together in the same place(s)? Of course, if a WWI battle occurred on Waikiki beach, a memorial there may have been appropriate, eh?