Burials at National Cemeteries?

[anapuni808]

Does anyone know what qualifies someone to be buried at a National Cemetery like Punchbowl?

[Amati]

Re: Burials at National Cemeteries?

http://www.cem.va.gov/pdf/burialin.pdf

Burial in a national cemetery is open to all members of the armed forces and veterans who have met minimum active service duty requirements and were discharged under conditions other than dishonorable. Their spouse, widow or widower, minor children, and, under certain conditions, unmarried adult children, may also be eligible for burial. Eligible spouses and children may be buried, even if they predecease the veteran. Members of the reserve components of the armed forces who die while on active duty or while performing training duty, or were eligible for retired pay, may also be eligible for burial.

Re: National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific (Punchbowl Cemetery)
http://www.cem.va.gov/CEMs/nchp/nmcp.asp
Burial Space: This cemetery has space available for cremated remains. We may be able to accommodate casketed remains in the same gravesite of previously interred family members.

[Barry]

Re: Burials at National Cemeteries?

Does anyone know what qualifies someone to be buried at a National Cemetery like Punchbowl?

People living on this side of the Atlantic are not allowed to be buried in England.

[anapuni808]

Re: Burials at National Cemeteries?

Barry, with all due respect - this was a very serious question. I know someone who was buried there that I don't think should have been. I'm trying to find out the regulations that apply.

[Barry]

Re: Burials at National Cemeteries?

Barry, with all due respect - this was a very serious question. I know someone who was buried there that I don't think should have been. I'm trying to find out the regulations that apply.

If I can help ? Like on the other islands ,,,, eg Mallorca, Ireland etc,,, they are running out of burial space. Therefore, cremation is much suggested. Yes ! you can get a burial place which will cost a fortune.
Regulations don't apply but cash certainly does these days in Europe.
The funeral diectors are also business men and are out to get as much as they can from grieved persons.
Here, when you have lost a loved one, you pick up a Green certificate for the release of the body and are advised on the options.

Hope that helps ? No frivoloty here. In France you can get a plot for burial but England it is very expensive, as it is in Spain.

[Nords]

Re: Burials at National Cemeteries?

Barry, with all due respect - this was a very serious question. I know someone who was buried there that I don't think should have been. I'm trying to find out the regulations that apply.

FWIW, usually the benefit requires documentation & verification with the sponsoring veteran's discharge papers (DD214). There may also be details in the DD214 that the general public isn't aware of.

The process isn't foolproof but it's difficult to finagle. And "impersonating a veteran" has become a felony.

[anapuni808]

Re: Burials at National Cemeteries?

Barry, I was asking about burial at a US National Cemetery - specifically Punchbowl which is located here in Honolulu. I wasn't asking about burials in Europe.

Nords - thanks for the info. It is helpful.

[tutusue]

Re: Burials at National Cemeteries?

People living on this side of the Atlantic are not allowed to be buried in England.

Barry, this is another example of an 'offbeat' reply. It has nothing to do with anapuni's request. Nor does your 2nd reply.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Burials at National Cemeteries?

This has nothing to do with Anapuni's question. But since it fits in with the title of the thread, I'll inquire here.

For quite some time now, the Punchbowl cemetery administrators have been saying that there is no more room for any more casket burials. Supposedly, the only new casket burials allowed are for family members who are already buried there. Everyone else who desires to make Punchbowl their final resting place will have to be cremated and their remains stored in a niche.

I know that Dan Inouye's first wife, Maggie, was buried at Punchbowl after she passed away several years ago. Are her remains stored in a niche, or does she have a ground plot? I'm asking because I'm assuming the senator will be buried with her when his time comes. Now I can't, for the life of me, imagine Senator Dan, the single most famous member of the 442nd Infantry, ending up in a niche. Does Punchbowl have a "stash" of ground plots that have been reserved for elites like Inouye?

Just wondering.

[anapuni808]

Re: Burials at National Cemeteries?

yeah, thats another question I have. If caskets are still being allowed - how does one qualify for that?

and it does have to do with my question.

[musubi]

Re: Burials at National Cemeteries?

FWIW, usually the benefit requires documentation & verification with the sponsoring veteran's discharge papers (DD214). There may also be details in the DD214 that the general public isn't aware of.

As Nords points out, the verification process and required documentation should be sufficient to preclude any "unqualified" burials.

From personal experience, I can tell you that the staff at NMCP (National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific, aka Punchbowl) and HSVC (Hawaii State Veterans Cemetery) are extremely thorough in determining whether a decedent is qualified for interment or inurnment at their respective facilities.

IMHO, it would be highly improbable for an interment/inurnment to proceed at either facility without satisfying the requisite criteria.

[anapuni808]

Re: Burials at National Cemeteries?

I appreciate and I thank you for all your comments. I will proceed with my inquiries. I'm not expecting to find that something was wrong, I'm just not sure how this particular burial was qualified for Punchbowl Cemetery.

and I don't want to cause any problems - I just have questions.

[musubi]

Current Interments (casket burials) at Punchbowl

Hi... I have a little more time at the moment to provide some possible explanations for a couple of the other questions:

For quite some time now, the Punchbowl cemetery administrators have been saying that there is no more room for any more casket burials. Supposedly, the only new casket burials allowed are for family members who are already buried there…
…Does Punchbowl have a "stash" of ground plots that have been reserved for elites like (Senator Daniel K.) Inouye?

yeah, thats another question I have. If caskets are still being allowed - how does one qualify for that?

When an interment space becomes available at Punchbowl, it is quickly filled since the demand far exceeds the supply. One factor that makes current interments (casket burials) possible was noted by Amati in post #2 (bold added for emphasis):

Re: National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific (Punchbowl Cemetery)http://www.cem.va.gov/CEMs/nchp/nmcp.asp
Burial Space: This cemetery has space available for cremated remains. We may be able to accommodate casketed remains in the same gravesite of previously interred family members.

--------------

Another factor is that formal requests for interment space may have been submitted at an earlier date. From the FAQ section of the VA's website pertaining to Burial & Memorials:
http://www.cem.va.gov/bbene/prepare.asp

"Gravesites in Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) national cemeteries cannot be reserved in advance; however, reservations made prior to 1962 will be honored..."

More than a few veterans who survived combat duty resolved long ago to be buried, when the time came, alongside comrades earlier laid to rest at Punchbowl. Especially for veterans of WWII, formal requests could have been filed well before 1962.

So the privilege of interment at Punchbowl could have been secured by any "average joe" who qualified and did a little bit of advance planning... not just "elites like Inouye," as Frankie's Market postulated.

---------------

Lastly, although Punchbowl has been closed to "new" burials since 1991, a small number of interment spaces becomes available each year. These are usually due to relinquishment by a beneficiary (or his/her family) for various reasons, including but not limited to:
- Beneficiary's original intent was interment, but later changes to final disposition by cremation instead. If the beneficiary is cremated, Punchbowl now has an ample supply of columbarium niches for inurnments.
- Beneficiary has made alternate arrangements (e.g. a cemetery closer to residence of surviving relatives, a private family estate, etc.);
- A previous Punchbowl interment is disinterred for relocation of remains.

A Honolulu Star-Bulletin article from May 2005 quotes NMCP Director Gene Castagnetti, in mentioning the above as one of the ways interment space becomes available:

"Though Punchbowl Cemetery is officially closed to new burials, sometimes vacancies are created when a body is moved to another cemetery. In that way, five men who died serving in Iraq have been buried at Punchbowl, Castagnetti said."

(full article at http://archives.starbulletin.com/200...ws/index5.html )

I hope that some of these explanations are helpful in understanding how current interments can occur at Punchbowl even though it is technically "closed to new burials."

[musubi]

Eligibility for Punchbowl & Other VA Cemeteries

I appreciate and I thank you for all your comments. I will proceed with my inquiries. I'm not expecting to find that something was wrong, I'm just not sure how this particular burial was qualified for Punchbowl Cemetery.

and I don't want to cause any problems - I just have questions.

anapuni808, if it would help to answer your questions regarding how the person that was laid to rest at Punchbowl met the criteria for burial there:

Amati's post #2 contained a brief summary regarding qualifying criteria, but a more detailed description can be found at:

http://www.cem.va.gov/bbene/eligible.asp

Some of the more obscure qualifying criteria include:

• Commissioned Officers of NOAA (National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration);
• Commissioned Officers of the US Public Health Service;
• WWII Merchant Mariners;
• WWII Phillipine Armed Service members;
• Designees of the Secretary of Veterans Affairs or the Secretary of Defense.

Depending on how much access you have to the decedent's personal information... you may or may not eventually be able to find the answers to all your questions.

Either way, I think you can rest assured that NMCP's staff made sure that the decedent was qualified to receive the service and benefits they provided.

Good luck and best wishes--

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Burials at National Cemeteries?

Thanks for sharing your insights, Musubi. It certainly cleared up many of my questions. Sounds like for anyone who did not get the opportunity to reserve a plot for themselves, it takes some fortuitous timing and the right circumstances in order to receive a casket burial in Punchbowl.