13 DUI's

[Ron Whitfield]

www.kitv.com/video/19652632/index.html
www.khnl.com/global/story.asp?s=10475586

What can be done to prevent this abuse of privilege?

I ask because Pat is a long time friend of mine, and all his better friends have often tried to keep him from being his own and other's worst enemy, but too often to no avail. X #s of years in jail may not be the answer for him. I'll bet he'll eventually go back to the old excuses and routines like always. He'll get another vehicle and drive, I'm sure. What can be done?

[Kaonohi]

Re: 13 DUI's

I had a brother-in-law (I say 'had' because he was murdered in Chinatown a couple years ago) who was brain-damaged from a motorcycle accident and fell back on drugs and alcohol to relieve some inner pain. Judged incompetent, he was remanded to the custody of his parents who had him take a daily medication which caused nausea when alcohol was imbibed.

Often he 'cheeked' the meds, spit them out and went out and got plastered anyway. Falling-down-drunk. Seeking oblivion. Finally he found it permanently.

It is not punishment this man needs, but rehabilitation. Hopefully 5 years in jail will enable him to dry out adequately, and give him time to utilize A.A. so he can come out, realize his path, and stay dry.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: 13 DUI's

What can be done to prevent this abuse of privilege?

I ask because Pat is a long time friend of mine, and all his better friends have often tried to keep him from being his own and other's worst enemy, but too often to no avail. X #s of years in jail may not be the answer for him. I'll bet he'll eventually go back to the old excuses and routines like always. He'll get another vehicle and drive, I'm sure. What can be done?

As far as the system is concerned, the Legislature needs to make some changes to the DUI laws. As a starting point, 1st-2nd-3rd-4th (and so forth) offense DUIs should not set the count back to zero just because 5 years has passed in-between DUI arrests. If you got tagged for your first DUI 15 years ago, then getting caught today should result in whatever penalties are given for a 2nd offense.

As far as personal accountability for Mr. Rowland is concerned,.... the man is 58 years old. He's not a kid, so he needs to take full responsibility for his actions. If he insists on getting behind the wheel after his driving license has already been revoked for life, he should be put in prison (with no chance for early release/parole). There's only so much that government and his friends can do for him. He can receive hundreds of hours of counseling. But when all is said and done, Rowland is the one who ultimately makes the decisions on whether he follows the law or not. If he can't clean up his own act, then society needs to do whatever it takes to make sure that he presents no danger to innocent people around him. If 5 years in prison isn't enough to stop him from getting behind the wheel again (drunk or sober) after he is released, then lock him up for 10 years. Sheesh!

[Random]

Re: 13 DUI's

www.kitv.com/video/19652632/index.html
www.khnl.com/global/story.asp?s=10475586

What can be done to prevent this abuse of privilege?

I ask because Pat is a long time friend of mine, and all his better friends have often tried to keep him from being his own and other's worst enemy, but too often to no avail. X #s of years in jail may not be the answer for him. I'll bet he'll eventually go back to the old excuses and routines like always. He'll get another vehicle and drive, I'm sure. What can be done?

Induce him into a coma?

Revoking not only his license but his limbs?

Dress him up as a peacock?

Introduce his meat to TAT's GF?

[oceanpacific]

Re: 13 DUI's

THIRTEEN DUIs are too many. The fact that he hasn't killed or maimed anyone yet is irrelevant to the danger this man presents to the public. Revoking his license didn't stop him from getting behind the wheel after getting "buzzed." Jail time was rightfully called for.

[Ron Whitfield]

Maybe I'm asking the wrong people...

1 DUI is too much.
Prison? A lifetime in prison with no release would be the only answer for someone like Pat if prison is the only answer. He HAS to drive, w/or w/out a license, and will when he get's out, and eventually will probably do so drunk and then it's back to his normal ways.

Maybe there is no solution to this for him.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Maybe I'm asking the wrong people...

Prison? A lifetime in prison with no release would be the only answer for someone like Pat if prison is the only answer.

If someone persists in breaking the law despite numerous warnings, what else can be done? Driving w/out a license is breaking the law. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

He HAS to drive, w/or w/out a license,

Why does he have to drive? We have a good bus system. Lots of taxis. Doesn't he have family members or friends (like you) who are willing to give him a lift when he needs it?

Nobody NEEDS to drive. Driving is not a right. It is a privilege. It is a privilege that gets permanently taken away from you for irresponsible behavior like 13 DUIs.

and will when he get's out, and eventually will probably do so drunk and then it's back to his normal ways.

Maybe there is no solution to this for him.

Somebody persists in breaking the law and presents a danger to others,.... No. There is no solution other than incarceration.

Pat Rowland is in no way, shape or form, the victim here.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Maybe I'm asking the wrong people...

1) If someone persists in breaking the law despite numerous warnings, what else can be done? There is no solution other than incarceration.
2) Why does he have to drive? We have a good bus system. Lots of taxis. Doesn't he have family members or friends (like you) who are willing to give him a lift when he needs it? Nobody NEEDS to drive.
3) Pat Rowland is in no way, shape or form, the victim here.

1) That's why I'm asking. I'd hope there is a better way.
2) You don't know Pat, mobility/freedom is his life. His work/livelyhood and sanity demand it. I don't/won't drive because I'm worse than him, and his family is part of his problems that drive him to drink. 'Asking friends' is pointless after a day or two.
3) Sure he is. Anyone caught up in a similarly and seemingly impossible situation is a victim of sorts. He needs some kind of help that prison alone won't provide. The judge should have let him have the drug rehab he asked for. Hopefully it will be part of the term.

I'm in no way condoning or excusing his actions, just hoping for some workable help for him when he get's out. We've tried for decades to keep him from himself. It's a mental thing that needs some kind of impercievable tweaking. Fortunately, he's not managed to kill or seriously injure anybody with his actions, which would really mess his head up. He really is a good guy apart from the drinking and driving.

[lurkah]

Re: Maybe I'm asking the wrong people...

Driving is not a right. It is a privilege. It is a privilege that gets permanently taken away from you for irresponsible behavior like 13 DUIs.

Your definition and my definition of the word permanently appears to differ from that of the court's definition...

Because of his driving record, prosecutors say Rowland's license was revoked for life on two separate occasions.

Did he die in one DUI accident and then somebody revived him? Wtf?

[68-eldo]

Re: 13 DUI's

I’ve heard of offenders like this being sentenced to work as a volunteer at the ER of a busy hospital. Once they see the horror of a car accident time and again they begin to understand the possible consequences of their actions.

This mans root problem is alcohol. If he can beat that it will be a giant leap forward for him. Alcohol does not solve anything.

[Random]

Re: Maybe I'm asking the wrong people...

Maybe there is no solution to this for him.

Well, no humane solution, that is.

*missing smiley: sinister devil*

[Kaonohi]

Maybe compassion has died, and people are too frigid to care.

Re: someones insistence that the DUI person is not a victim:

3) Sure he is. Anyone caught up in a similarly and seemingly impossible situation is a victim of sorts. He needs some kind of help that prison alone won't provide. The judge should have let him have the drug rehab he asked for. Hopefully it will be part of the term.

In no way am I implying he is innocent, or not responsible for his actions, but the guy IS a victim!
He is a victim of alcohol addiction.
Addicts can no more control their actions than animals can keep from killing for food. Their addiction IS their food. They cannot live without it, or at least that is what their mind and body tells them.

Do you think people get up one morning and decide, "Hey, I'm going to be an alcoholic!" or heroin addict, or meth or whatever...?

Get real.

Stupid choices lead to irrevocable actions due to addiction. Why do you think they call it addiction? Why do you think they call it 'dope?'

When you become an addict you have left choice behind. It is a word no longer in your vocabulary, a road blocked off by mindlessness.

Yet addicts are still responsible. The only humane solution is to aid them in overcoming their addiction; and there is NO guarantee it won't come back.

Think of it like selling your soul to the devil, and the devil refuses to sell it back.

Prison will keep other citizens safe while our friend gets important counseling and medical treatment to help him overcome his addiction. If he cannot overcome it, he must resolve himself to a life of incarceration.

For the safety of the rest of us.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Maybe I'm asking the wrong people...

You don't know Pat, mobility/freedom is his life. His work/livelyhood and sanity demand it.

Well if driving was that important to him, he should have made wiser choices in his life. Everytime a person is intoxicated and gets behind the wheel, they have a choice. They can do the stupid thing and take the chance on driving themselves home. Or they can do the wise thing and ask for a ride home from a sober friend. Or call the cab.

Anyone caught up in a similarly and seemingly impossible situation is a victim of sorts.

A victim is someone who is harmed and had no choice in the matter, like an innocent motorist driving through an intersection and is broadsided at high speed by a drunk driver running a red light.

Dana Ambrose was a victim. Clyde Arakawa was not. Arakawa's drinking problem/alcoholism does not make him a victim, anymore than it does Rowland. Both men could have made the choice to have a sober person drive them home safely. Both men instead decided to drive themselves home. You can sob all the tears of sorrow that you want for both Arakawa and Rowland rotting in jail. I don't consider anyone being imprisoned as a consequence for the poor choices they made to be a victim.

I'm in no way condoning or excusing his actions, just hoping for some workable help for him when he get's out. We've tried for decades to keep him from himself. It's a mental thing that needs some kind of impercievable tweaking.

Fine, I hope your friend eventually overcomes whatever alcohol problems and personal demons he has by the time he gets released. But no matter what recovery he makes, no more driver's license for him. 13 DUIs is way too deep a hole for him to dig out of, as far as getting his driving privilege back. If he needs some mobility/freedom in his life, he's going to have to get it from a bicycle. Or a mobility scooter.

He really is a good guy apart from the drinking and driving.

So was Arakawa. So was Bucky Lake.

[salmoned]

Re: 13 DUI's

My Random House College dictionary lists three definitions for 'victim':

1. a person who suffers from a destructive or injurious action or agency.

2. a person who is deceived or cheated.

3. a living being sacrificed in religious rites.

Maybe this avowed self-inflicted, self-deceived 'victim' according to the first two definitions should complete the triad and succumb to the third, eh?

[Ron Whitfield]

All that, and less...

...in just under a month!