Political Hall Of Shame

[Kalalau]

Re: Political Hall Of Shame

Gingrich gets my vote. Serving the wife with divorce papers when she's coming out of anesthesia for cancer surgery is so bad its a warning sign of a disturbed personality. Its like a child who tortures animals growing up to be a mass murderer, or like when Bush was Gov. of Texas and Gonzalez the AG there LAUGHING over clemency pleas from human beings condemned to be killed. It shows a fundamentally flawed personality, disconnected from humanity. Having seen that politics has a powerful allure for numerous sickos like Stalin, Hitler, Mao, et al, the press really owes it to the country to examine and report vigorously on character flaws that may indicate murderous inhumane impulses. I do think that serving your wife of 19 years with divorce papers while she is coming out of cancer surgery qualifies as a sign of a severely sick personality.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Political Hall Of Shame

WHAT?!?

No Ted Kennedy vote?

Mass. is still brimming with "Remember Mary Jo" bumper stickers.....

Hmmm, I guess my saying that this poll was about 10 of the more recent politicians involved in a sex scandal didn't quite register.

Chappaquiddick happened 40 years ago.

Gingrich gets my vote. Serving the wife with divorce papers when she's coming out of anesthesia for cancer surgery is so bad its a warning sign of a disturbed personality.

Newt revealed himself to be a real creep by doing that. But then again, John Edwards doesn't come off any better in that regard, engaging in an affair while wife Elizabeth was battling breast cancer.

[Random]

Re: Political Hall Of Shame

Gingrich gets my vote. Serving the wife with divorce papers when she's coming out of anesthesia for cancer surgery is so bad its a warning sign of a disturbed personality. Its like a child who tortures animals growing up to be a mass murderer, or like when Bush was Gov. of Texas and Gonzalez the AG there LAUGHING over clemency pleas from human beings condemned to be killed. It shows a fundamentally flawed personality, disconnected from humanity. Having seen that politics has a powerful allure for numerous sickos like Stalin, Hitler, Mao, et al, the press really owes it to the country to examine and report vigorously on character flaws that may indicate murderous inhumane impulses. I do think that serving your wife of 19 years with divorce papers while she is coming out of cancer surgery qualifies as a sign of a severely sick personality.

One could question the timing, but one has to wonder if the marriage have already been broken despite the wife's illness.

Gee, you make politics sound bad and unhealthy for people. Maybe we should try anarchy. While there are tragically flawed leaders, they like all humans are hard-wired for flaws. Otherwise, we'd all be saints ... and I'd be ridding myself of my porn collection.

[Walkoff Balk]

Re: Political Hall Of Shame

Does it have to be a sex scandal? How about Michael Dukakas in an Army tank or Mrs. Reagan on Mr.T's lap?

[Kaonohi]

Re: Political Hall Of Shame

Hmmm, I guess my saying that this poll was about 10 of the more recent politicians involved in a sex scandal didn't quite register.

Where did you say that?
Not in the poll header:

View Poll Results: Which politician most shamed himself in a sex scandal?

Not in your instructive #1 post:

Who's your pick for the politician who most shamed himself and his family with his extramarital affair?

Oh, here, way down in post # 28:

A couple of things to keep in mind here. This message board polling system allows a maximum of up to 10 choices only. So there's no way to list every single politician in history who engaged in some hanky-panky on the side. I just picked 10 of the more recent politicians who have been involved in a major sex scandal.

Leashlaws asked the same question, WAAAY back inpost # 12!,

Where's Ted Kennedy?

and you didn't berate leashlaws for it....

Oh, I get it. I was supposed to read your reply to Matapule. Sorry, I still had you on "IGNORE" on the 26th.

And to think that I thought you were picking on me.

Chappaquiddick happened 40 years ago.

Seems like just yesterday....

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Political Hall Of Shame

Leashlaws asked the same question, WAAAY back inpost # 12!,

and you didn't berate leashlaws for it....

Oh, I get it. I was supposed to read your reply to Matapule. Sorry, I still had you on "IGNORE" on the 26th.

And to think that I thought you were picking on me.

*sigh!*

I wasn't berating you.

And while Leashlaws did mention Ted Kennedy, he didn't specifically mention Mary Jo Kopechne like you did. Leashlaws might have been referring to a more recent scandal, like the senator's involvement in an incident which resulted in nephew William Kennedy Smith being accused of rape.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Political Hall Of Shame

*sigh!*

I wasn't berating you.

Hmmm. Thought I made it clear that was my first impression, but that by following the dots, I figured out you weren't.

No hard feelings, your post was valid - you just didn't realize I didn't read your response to Matapule (just before my post). You do realize that now, right? Not your fault - my fault for not reading the whole thread.

Hey, you and I seem to always have had a hard time communicating. No need for a frustrated sigh, just recognize it and accept it. It's not the end of the world. Plus, when you emit an asterisked two-line sigh as the first part of your response, don't you think that sends a certain, very specific message? I'll leave it to you to figure out that message, perhaps you can do what you told me:

To paraphrase your comment:
'If someone inserted an asterisked, set-aside, two-line spaced 'sigh,' how would you respond? Let's be honest here.'

And frankly (no pun intended) within the limits imposed, you gave good poll. You are obviously on top of current and recent events.



Oh, and BYW, if you want part 2 of my recent PM, you need to clean out some more old PMs. Maybe you already have. I'll give it two more tries, today and tomorrow.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Political Hall Of Shame

Hey, you and I seem to always have had a hard time communicating. No need for a frustrated sigh, just recognize it and accept it. It's not the end of the world.

Kaonohi, I will tell you the truth. I was frustrated because by your saying that I "didn't berate leashlaws" for mentioning Ted Kennedy, you implied that I berated you. As I said, I didn't berate you. The definition of "berate" is:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/berate

To rate or chide vehemently; to scold or lecture

And I did none of that in post #32. Not even close. Merely bringing to someone's attention a fact that they overlooked is not berating them.

So if you're going to comment on my "frustrated sigh" in my last post, so be it. But I have every right to take exception to terms that are used that mischaracterize the nature of my posts. And with all due respect, I hope that is something that you will recognize and accept.

[surlygirly]

Re: Political Hall Of Shame

JFK had several other lovers while in office. It's in the records.

But I don't think that morality should be based on the number of lovers one has had, but the number of people one is responsible for killing.

True. But JFK wasn't a choice. And I wasn't preaching morality; I was answering the question of who I thought shamed their family the most. I'm only 28, so Clinton's string of women is very clear in my mind. There was even a parody of a song about it. Taking a lover or multiple lovers isn't necessarily something I look down upon, but doing it when you're someone who is in the public eye and having a wife and child who have already been through it before is pretty shameful. At least to me. YMMV.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Political Hall Of Shame

True. But JFK wasn't a choice. And I wasn't preaching morality; I was answering the question of who I thought shamed their family the most. I'm only 28, so Clinton's string of women is very clear in my mind. There was even a parody of a song about it.

Not to mention that media accounts of Clinton's affairs were very graphic, descriptive, and was plastered on newspapers and TV news reports all around the world.

For all of JFK's affairs, none of it was mentioned in the mainstream press while he was alive, let alone any details being discussed on what sex act JFK performed on whom.

[Kaonohi]

Hall Of Shame

So if you're going to comment on my "frustrated sigh" in my last post, so be it. But I have every right to take exception to terms that are used that mischaracterize the nature of my posts. And with all due respect, I hope that is something that you will recognize and accept.

Yeah, I've been misusing berate! It's a much stronger word than I thought, so I'm cool with that. My bad, and thank you. I love to learn.

But (LOL) your frustrated sigh is almost comical.... It reminds me of George Carlin's "Sister Mary Elizabeth with the steel ruler...." (These kids, won't they EVER get it???) ROTFL!

But you have a right to be frustrated when one of us lesser beings doesn't meet up to your high standards of perfection. You have a right to *sigh* even. I guess *sighing* is a first amendment right. No problem, sigh away!

(Are you using rhetoric to change the subject?)

But, you didn't answer my question, even after I so graciously answered yours in the same vein:

Now if you think that my "pettiness" remark was too strong, so be it. I think that calling someone a "truly pathetic sort" is far more insulting. If someone called you a "truly pathetic sort," how would you respond? Let's be honest here.

I hope I would say "That's because you don't know me," (my ideal response), but since I do know myself, and where my trigger is set, I'd likely respond strongly. But not offhandedly, I would respond aggressively, head-on, and question how they presume to judge me. And since I'm so verbose, it would be pages....
I have no presumptions about myself. I'm not infallible, and I F-Up with the best of them. I'm smart (I.Q. 175 in my prime), but not worldly. I'm often naive. I have some strong opinions and many things I find interesting but don't care about other things. I value people who value other people and have no use for people who are exploiters, users or who need to support their egos, especially those who boost their self image by putting others down or use comparisons to say, in essence, "I'm better/smarter/richer/whatever than you."
I try to take people at face value, but sometimes I'm fooled.

And I might even question their choice of the word 'pathetic,' similar to your challenge of my use of 'berate,' questioning if they really knew the meaning of pathetic.

So, since I was so nice to answer you, can you not ignore my question?:
I.E.:

"If someone inserted an asterisked, set-aside, two-line spaced 'sigh,' how would you respond? Let's be honest here."

[Frankie's Market]

Posting private messages

Kaonohi, you just posted a private message that I sent to you. Without my permission. Not cool.

But, you didn't answer my question, even after I so graciously answered yours in the same vein:

You sent me a private message both yesterday and today, and I simply didn't have a chance to get around to replying to them. Impatience is not an excuse to post someone else's private messages without their permission.

Kaonohi, I honestly tried to improve relations with you. But you're making this really hard.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Political Hall Of Shame

Hey, what say we all remember this wise post (from a different thread, but still applicable throughout HT)? The name of the o.p. is not relevant ---

I don't know about anyone else, but I know that a harsh tone and heated rhetoric carried on by 2 or more people can easily discourage others who want to express their opinion, but are reluctant to do so because of the battle royal that is raging. This was probably true in this particular thread,... and I definitely know it is true in past threads where I and others have been guilty of letting disagreements get out of hand. Messages from people that I respect have been sent to me expressing that POV, for which I have come to regret.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Political Hall Of Shame

Hey, what say we all remember this wise post (from a different thread, but still applicable throughout HT)? The name of the o.p. is not relevant ---

To Leo: No, let's not engage in a game of charades. Those were my words you quoted. Those are ideas that I still believe in. And being the imperfect person that I am, I fell short of those ideals. I readily admit losing my composure. It happens to me whenever a trust gets violated. And if anyone here can say with 100% honesty that they have never experienced being upset when confidence has been breached, then I tip my hat to you. You are a better person than I. If not, then may the rest of us all take comfort at knowing how it feels to be human.

To Kaonohi: Reading through the entire thread, I concede that I may have been testy and overly sensitive over your use of the word berate in describing my actions. For that, I do offer a sincere apology. But I do hope that you understand that if we throw "loaded" words at each other with no regard for the other person's feelings, this will inevitably lead to trouble somewhere down the road. As I said before, I was sensitive to having my response to you being termed as a beratement because I am trying to shed the image that other people here have of me as someone who lectures and comes down hard on them. I AM trying to be nicer and kinder in my responses. So when you came out and said I was berating you just because I pointed out something that you missed, it really did frustrate me as I don't want my actions to be associated with an unflattering term that mischaracterize my intentions. I said it before and I say it again. I hope you understand this.

What I do not apologize for is being upset over your public posting of my private message without obtaining my consent. You can give out whatever reason you want. I don't care. There is no excuse for doing what you did. I was very upset at the outset. But after some time, I've calmed down. I don't feel upset anymore. Be that as it may, I will no longer send you private messages, nor will I respond to any of your PMs for the time being. And I hope you understand that as well. If I can't trust you to keep things in strict confidence, then it defeats the entire concept of a private message.

[Kaonohi]

Humanity's Hall Of Shame

To Kaonohi: Reading through the entire thread, I concede that I may have been testy and overly sensitive over your use of the word berate in describing my actions. For that, I do offer a sincere apology. But I do hope that you understand that if we throw "loaded" words at each other with no regard for the other person's feelings, this will inevitably lead to trouble somewhere down the road.

No apology necessary, but if it helps, I accept, and though I feel there is no wrong to forgive, I offer my hand in forgiveness.
I also apologise for using a small excerpt from your private message to me to illustrate my willingness to answer your questions as completely and honestly as I am able. And for my impatience. I will patiently wait for your answer, I accept your explanation.

One problem with "loaded words" is that we each have varied cultural backgrounds, and what may be 'sensitive' to one may be mundane to another. I've said many times that there is no one standard. Here in Hawai`i, especially we must be tolerant and understanding.

We have at least three obvious choices here: we can ask politely for clarification, we can practice tolerance of each others' differences and act accordingly, or we can become various degrees of upset.
It is obvious where each path leads, and there are other choices as well: we can try to obfuscate the issue with rhetoric, play "victim" games, lead the issue in an irrelevant direction, etc.

But we need to look at our long-term goals; what do we want to accomplish? I have been trying to use tolerance and clarification as tools to increase understanding and to repair a series of interactions that almost... well, perhaps I shouldn't say in public, as I wouldn't want to further offend you... let's just say that the possible consequences would have been unpleasant for us both, and it's no one else's business anyway.
This is not to say that I've been doing it perfectly - to me you are a complex person, and I often feel I must tiptoe around you - I will make mistakes, I guarantee it. Have I not been gracious and expressed gratitude when you have clarified something for me? I am trying! (Or as my spouse sometimes says, "very trying!)

We also need to look at the flip side of apology: forgiveness. What use is sincere apology if it is not followed with sincere forgiveness? I am willing to empower both and wipe the slate of misunderstanding clean. How you respond is your choice.

I AM trying to be nicer and kinder in my responses.

More people than I have noticed and commented on this; you don't have to change who you are to accomplish this. I certainly appreciate your efforts.

Be that as it may, I will no longer send you private messages, nor will I respond to any of your PMs for the time being. And I hope you understand that as well. If I can't trust you to keep things in strict confidence, then it defeats the entire concept of a private message.

I understand. If you need a time-out from me, so be it. I have learned that you hold private messages to a very high standard of confidentiality. If you feel I can't learn, so be it; do what you feel best. Though I do make mistakes, I do try to not make the same mistake twice.

Although you currently desire not to reply to my posts, I hope you at least read this one so you can see my efforts are to repair and build up, not tear down. I will close this with a relevant phrase that can guide us all into keeping our discussions peaceful:

"It is as destructive to take offense as it is to give offense."

I hope you find it in your heart to forgive any and all offenses I have given you. If it takes time to do it, so be it.