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Thread: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or Socialized Medicine?

  1. #1
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    Default Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or Socialized Medicine?

    I've heard confusing things about Obama's healthcare reform strategy. He wanted to model it after the European (or Russian) healthcare system? But are they successful outside of our borders?
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    I am happy and healthy, under the care of the NHS!
    Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Betsey View Post
    I am happy and healthy, under the care of the NHS!

    Couldn't agree more Betsey. The medical insurance I paid in Hawaii was way over the odds. Sure we might have to wait here for hospial treatment if the doctor doesn't consider it very serious, they will just push us pils.

    My Respect goes out to the nurses. They stop the doctors from killing us.

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    I am very happy with my Medicare plan. Why can't this plan be made available to all Americans as an option to private insurance? Or better yet why can't Americans have the same medical plan that congressmen and senators have voted for themselves?

    It is time for a national health care option.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    The French system is the absolute best.

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    The French system is the absolute best.

    Can I come back to live in France. I will sleep in your cupboard

  7. #7

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    I am very happy with my Medicare plan. Why can't this plan be made available to all Americans as an option to private insurance? Or better yet why can't Americans have the same medical plan that congressmen and senators have voted for themselves?
    It is because of the $$$$$. As usual.

    Private health care insurers, the AMA, and big pharma has been lining the campaign coffers of lawmakers for years, both Republican and Democratic. Its obvious that the GOP opposes the public option, but they are in the minority now. The biggest obstacle to health care reform is now coming from some key Democrats, believe it or not. First on my list of suspect Democrats is Senate Finance Chair Max Baucus.

    http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notio...can_believe_in

    The Sunlight Foundation recently reported that "five of Baucus' former staffers currently work for a total of twenty-seven different organizations that are either in the health care or insurance sector or have a noted interest in the outcome," including many of the firms--like PhRMA--that are sure to lobby against or work to severely dilute Obama's bill. Moreover, the Billings Gazette found that Baucus raises $1,500 a day from the medical-industrial complex, more than any other Democratic senator.

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    It is because of the $$$$$. As usual..
    Actually maybe not. If you factor in how much medical care costs for the uninsured, some argue it would be a cost savings. And the financial cost did not stop other civilized countries from providing public health insurance for their citizens.

    My Medicare coverage costs me $96 per month, $1,150 per year. Plus I (and most of us) have paid into Medicare over our working careers. At this point, I don't use $1,150 worth of medical care a year.........and I am happy about that. I'm not complaining!

    I would like to make a similar program available to everyone.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Can I come back to live in France. I will sleep in your cupboard

    I have a better idea...

    Unless, of course, you LIKE cupboards.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    Actually maybe not. If you factor in how much medical care costs for the uninsured, some argue it would be a cost savings..
    Matapule, if you had read my comments beyond the first paragraph, you would see that when I talked about "$$$$$," I wasn't talking about the costs of a public health care option. I was talking about "$$$$$" that lawmakers receive from the private insurers and various special interests groups that do not want a public option.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    A friend and I were hiking in BC back in the '70's. He came down with a strep throat. We went to a Canadian public clinic. He saw a doctor, got lab tests, and got medicine, then they found out he was American and they said they'd have to charge. Conferred behind a desk. Finally, "Would $3.40 be okay?" My friend peels off a $5 bill and tells them to keep the change. Granted it was the '70's. Without exception my Canadian friends LOVE their national health system and would never consider trading it for America's system. Nothing is perfect, and their system isn't either, but it is so much better than ours there is just no comparison. Friends who have lived in Mexico find a lot about Mexico's system that is superior to America's, too. Mexico does not have the money to fool around supporting parasites in its health care system. And a friend from Australia says his country's national health system is so good that its competition forces private health insurers there to act much more responsively to their policy holders than American companies do.

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    The NHS is not perfect - no system is. But it works reasonably well. I'd be interested to hear what the problems of socialized medicine are perceived to be.
    Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Betsey View Post
    I'd be interested to hear what the problems of socialized medicine are perceived to be.
    Betsey, I guess the most often expressed concern is the expense to the taxpayer.

    I don't agree with that, but a minority do.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    I saw a bumper sticker on topic this morning, "If Obama screws up health care, where will all the Canadians go?" Wow, what a 100 % delusion!!! It is the Americans who would love to get coverage in Canada, not the other way around. The same car had another sticker, "Jindall 2012, the end of Socialism" Prezident Bobbi Jindall...can't wait.

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    "Jindall 2012, the end of Socialism" Prezident Bobbi Jindall...can't wait.
    I thought he was out walkin' the Appalachian Trail? Why isn't he passing the ball in order to "progressing" his State?

    There's always Mitt Romney for Pres. I bet he conducts his campaign on a bicycle, white shirt, black tie, selling home security systems.

    Lingle is looking better and better all the time as the Repub alternative....driving her ol' Weinermobile.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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    Question Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    I'm not real clear on how the proposed plan works. But from what I've heard, the companies that offer insurance to their employees will be charged more, thus the worker's premium's will go up. Is this correct?

    All I know is that I haven't had health insurance since the end of 2007. It's been wildly expensive. My prescriptions cost us $388/month. And that's after I stopped taking one that I still need but costs another $300, and we just cannot afford $688. That's more than we spend in groceries!

    I have lots of medical bills stacked up, but I have other things I need to pay first, like my mortgage and electric bills. The only county hospital is 50 miles away, and the average wait time is about 12 hours. To go see a doctor cost me $260 for 10 minutes of talking and for her PA to take my blood pressure. But we don't qualify for Medicaid by a long shot.

    Hopefully when my husband is hired on full-time with this company, the insurance won't suck. The contract company insurance was $600/month and they wouldn't pay for ANYTHING until we met a $6k deducible. Yeah, right!

    Can't think of anything creative this time


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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    I've been trying to figure out how much the NHS costs me as a taxpayer. I'm a long way from being an accountant or an economist, but here goes.

    UK Department of Health spending 2008-9 was 98.6 billion (American billion). The population of the UK was 60,943912. That's 1617.88 spent per person, that year.

    Total UK government spending that year was 575.2 billion, so just under a sixth of that is on health. I guess that means a sixth of our tax bill pays for the NHS.
    Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Betsey View Post
    That's £1617.88 spent per person, that year..
    Betsey, that figures out to US$2,600 per person per year. I think that most Americans who purchase their own insurance or employers who purchase insurance for their employees would jump at the chance to get those rates for a comprehensive health insurance plan. Obama is proposing a national health insurance as an option. People can keep their private plan if they like it better. But NHS would allow people like SurlyGirly to get insurance that would be more affordable than a private plan.

    I know that my Medicare coverage (NHS for the elderly) costs me US$1,150 per year with copay on doctor's visits, medicine, procedures, etc. That is affordable for me. I could not afford a private insurance plan.

    NHS is long overdue in America as an option for everyone.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Okay. Thanks for clearing that up for me, Betsey and Matapule. So I was pretty confused about the whole thing. I admit I don't follow the news very often. This is mostly b/c I didn't like watching all the violent crime stories when my husband was traveling all the time and also because our newscasters are so awful.

    Can't think of anything creative this time


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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    I wonder if the standards of care will remain the same or better, not only on routine doctor's visit but surgical care.

    Will NHS determine the kind of care on an individual basis as HMO?
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Random View Post
    I wonder if the standards of care will remain the same or better, not only on routine doctor's visit but surgical care.
    For my NHS Medicare the answer is yes. I got to keep my same doctor with the same services as I had with my employer paid plan.

    Will NHS determine the kind of care on an individual basis as HMO?
    The answer is yes, in my experience.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    NHS

    Just to put your minds at ease. We have had the NHS here since 1947 and it works. There is a team of 9 doctors at the Elms where I go and I book visitors from abroad in with them for free.
    Two from Hawaii are booked in for the next 3 weeks. while they travel around.

    Can I say again that the disadvantange of NHS is the hospital waiting list?

    You can use Medicare in conjunction to NHS if you need speedy hospital treatment.

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Random View Post
    I wonder if the standards of care will remain the same or better, not only on routine doctor's visit but surgical care.

    Will NHS determine the kind of care on an individual basis as HMO?
    I can only answer impressionistically as to standards - it would be interesting to see a really scientific comparison of surgical outcomes across different health systems.

    Here you would probably have to wait, up to six months, for some non-urgent procedures. If it's something time-sensitive or life threatening, they're onto it instantly.

    One other difference I have noticed is that in America, doctors seem to maximise the number of tests and procedures they order. If you went with a sore throat, they would routinely order a swab before prescribing. Here the GP would make a visual diagnosis, and only go for the lab tests if there was some doubt.

    I don't know if the thinking is 'the insurance is paying, have everything!' or influenced by litigation. Here there would be an element of cost-benefit analysis written into the clinical guidelines.

    Again, this is only my experience, my perception.
    Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

  24. #24

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    I remember when Mrs. Clinton did all that work trying to get the country health care only to have it all shot down by a terrified public motivated by excellently crafted TV ads (I think it was the most expensive ad campaign in history) sponsored by the insurance industry. A male and female actor portrayed a poor downtrodden couple destroyed by national health care. Very persuasive. I have heard that the male actor went on to develop an expensive medical condition and his insurance company dropped him as insurance companies so frequently do, and he died. Can we say "karma"? Or would it be cause and effect.

    Also a grizzled old Republican veteran being interviewed on the subject of health care: "I am perfectly happy with my Veterans Administration health benefits, Medicare, and Social Security--I don't want the government getting involved in health care!" How can you argue with that kind of logic?

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    I was talking with a friend about this and she told me her brother was in Canada a while back and got poison ivy and had to get a prescription for Calamine lotion. And that most things on a NHS have to be prescribed and are not over-the-counter. Can someone claim true or false on this?

    That just doesn't sound...right to me. And I don't think that would fly here anyway. I mean, we're all so addicted to Advil and Claritin, I can't imagine what the public would do if someone tried to take that away and make us wait 6 months to get dr appointments to get Rx's for it.

    I guess I'm just leery of an NHS because while it works great for smaller countries, I don't think trying to transform the US is going to be very successful.

    Can't think of anything creative this time


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