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Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or Socialized Medicine?

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  • #16
    Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    I'm not real clear on how the proposed plan works. But from what I've heard, the companies that offer insurance to their employees will be charged more, thus the worker's premium's will go up. Is this correct?

    All I know is that I haven't had health insurance since the end of 2007. It's been wildly expensive. My prescriptions cost us $388/month. And that's after I stopped taking one that I still need but costs another $300, and we just cannot afford $688. That's more than we spend in groceries!

    I have lots of medical bills stacked up, but I have other things I need to pay first, like my mortgage and electric bills. The only county hospital is 50 miles away, and the average wait time is about 12 hours. To go see a doctor cost me $260 for 10 minutes of talking and for her PA to take my blood pressure. But we don't qualify for Medicaid by a long shot.

    Hopefully when my husband is hired on full-time with this company, the insurance won't suck. The contract company insurance was $600/month and they wouldn't pay for ANYTHING until we met a $6k deducible. Yeah, right!

    Can't think of anything creative this time

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    • #17
      Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

      I've been trying to figure out how much the NHS costs me as a taxpayer. I'm a long way from being an accountant or an economist, but here goes.

      UK Department of Health spending 2008-9 was £98.6 billion (American billion). The population of the UK was 60,943912. That's £1617.88 spent per person, that year.

      Total UK government spending that year was £575.2 billion, so just under a sixth of that is on health. I guess that means a sixth of our tax bill pays for the NHS.
      Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

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      • #18
        Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

        Originally posted by Betsey View Post
        That's £1617.88 spent per person, that year..
        Betsey, that figures out to US$2,600 per person per year. I think that most Americans who purchase their own insurance or employers who purchase insurance for their employees would jump at the chance to get those rates for a comprehensive health insurance plan. Obama is proposing a national health insurance as an option. People can keep their private plan if they like it better. But NHS would allow people like SurlyGirly to get insurance that would be more affordable than a private plan.

        I know that my Medicare coverage (NHS for the elderly) costs me US$1,150 per year with copay on doctor's visits, medicine, procedures, etc. That is affordable for me. I could not afford a private insurance plan.

        NHS is long overdue in America as an option for everyone.
        Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

        People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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        • #19
          Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

          Okay. Thanks for clearing that up for me, Betsey and Matapule. So I was pretty confused about the whole thing. I admit I don't follow the news very often. This is mostly b/c I didn't like watching all the violent crime stories when my husband was traveling all the time and also because our newscasters are so awful.

          Can't think of anything creative this time

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          • #20
            Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

            I wonder if the standards of care will remain the same or better, not only on routine doctor's visit but surgical care.

            Will NHS determine the kind of care on an individual basis as HMO?
            Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

            Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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            • #21
              Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

              Originally posted by Random View Post
              I wonder if the standards of care will remain the same or better, not only on routine doctor's visit but surgical care.
              For my NHS Medicare the answer is yes. I got to keep my same doctor with the same services as I had with my employer paid plan.

              Will NHS determine the kind of care on an individual basis as HMO?
              The answer is yes, in my experience.
              Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

              People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

                NHS

                Just to put your minds at ease. We have had the NHS here since 1947 and it works. There is a team of 9 doctors at the Elms where I go and I book visitors from abroad in with them for free.
                Two from Hawaii are booked in for the next 3 weeks. while they travel around.

                Can I say again that the disadvantange of NHS is the hospital waiting list?

                You can use Medicare in conjunction to NHS if you need speedy hospital treatment.

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                • #23
                  Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

                  Originally posted by Random View Post
                  I wonder if the standards of care will remain the same or better, not only on routine doctor's visit but surgical care.

                  Will NHS determine the kind of care on an individual basis as HMO?
                  I can only answer impressionistically as to standards - it would be interesting to see a really scientific comparison of surgical outcomes across different health systems.

                  Here you would probably have to wait, up to six months, for some non-urgent procedures. If it's something time-sensitive or life threatening, they're onto it instantly.

                  One other difference I have noticed is that in America, doctors seem to maximise the number of tests and procedures they order. If you went with a sore throat, they would routinely order a swab before prescribing. Here the GP would make a visual diagnosis, and only go for the lab tests if there was some doubt.

                  I don't know if the thinking is 'the insurance is paying, have everything!' or influenced by litigation. Here there would be an element of cost-benefit analysis written into the clinical guidelines.

                  Again, this is only my experience, my perception.
                  Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

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                  • #24
                    Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

                    I remember when Mrs. Clinton did all that work trying to get the country health care only to have it all shot down by a terrified public motivated by excellently crafted TV ads (I think it was the most expensive ad campaign in history) sponsored by the insurance industry. A male and female actor portrayed a poor downtrodden couple destroyed by national health care. Very persuasive. I have heard that the male actor went on to develop an expensive medical condition and his insurance company dropped him as insurance companies so frequently do, and he died. Can we say "karma"? Or would it be cause and effect.

                    Also a grizzled old Republican veteran being interviewed on the subject of health care: "I am perfectly happy with my Veterans Administration health benefits, Medicare, and Social Security--I don't want the government getting involved in health care!" How can you argue with that kind of logic?

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                    • #25
                      Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

                      I was talking with a friend about this and she told me her brother was in Canada a while back and got poison ivy and had to get a prescription for Calamine lotion. And that most things on a NHS have to be prescribed and are not over-the-counter. Can someone claim true or false on this?

                      That just doesn't sound...right to me. And I don't think that would fly here anyway. I mean, we're all so addicted to Advil and Claritin, I can't imagine what the public would do if someone tried to take that away and make us wait 6 months to get dr appointments to get Rx's for it.

                      I guess I'm just leery of an NHS because while it works great for smaller countries, I don't think trying to transform the US is going to be very successful.

                      Can't think of anything creative this time

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

                        Originally posted by surlygirly View Post
                        I can't imagine what the public would do if someone tried to take that away and make us wait 6 months to get dr appointments to get Rx's for it.
                        I have stated on several occasions that I belong to Medicare (or you could say the NHS medical program for the elderly in the USA).

                        If I have an emergency, I can see an emergency doctor immediately, that day. If it is not an emergency, I can see my personal physician, the one I selected from a list, in a week or less, and often on the same day. If it is an emergency, I can see a specialist immediately. If it is not an emergency, it could take up to a month to see a specialist. If I need a refill on a prescription, I call the doctors office, they call the pharmacy, and I pick up the prescription that day or the next.

                        I do not need a prescription to purchase Calamine lotion, Advil, or Claritin. That's nonsense. I shop for non-prescription medication at Long's or Save-On just like everyone else. I did find that I can purchase my prescription drugs at Costco or WalMart for less than I can through my Medicare drug plan. But I have the option to purchase my medications wherever I want.

                        My NHS plan is wonderful! I pay $96 per month for my Medicare (plus what I and my employer paid in over the years). I have a telephone number available to me 24/7 with a live person I can talk to answer questions and give direction. I would like a similar plan made available to all Americans as an option. If you want to continue to pay for an expensive medical plan through a private insurer with windfall profits going to their stockholders and multi-million dollar salaries going to the CEOs, you would still have that option.

                        There is a lot of misinformation and inaccuracies about the national health insurance program being proposed by the Obama administration. A lot of that misinformation is being circulated by the lobbyists for the health insurance industry and AMA. Most of it is tu'u mama'o. It is time that the US joined the rest of the civilized world and has a comprehensive health insurance program available to the citizens as an option.

                        IO LAVA PE (YES WE CAN!)
                        Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                        People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

                          Thank you. I know my questions may seem stupid, but, well, you see the kind of answers I get when I try to ask them elsewhere. I knew someone here would have actual answers and not BS propaganda. It seems like I can't have conversations with my peers about anything of signficance anymore because either no one cares or what they don't know, they make up. It's easier to come here and talk to you guys.

                          Matapule, I appreciate your patience with me. I knew those things didn't sound right and you just confirmed what I thought.

                          Can't think of anything creative this time

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                          • #28
                            Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

                            Originally posted by surlygirly View Post
                            I was talking with a friend about this and she told me her brother was in Canada a while back and got poison ivy and had to get a prescription for Calamine lotion. And that most things on a NHS have to be prescribed and are not over-the-counter. Can someone claim true or false on this?

                            I guess I'm just leery of an NHS because while it works great for smaller countries, I don't think trying to transform the US is going to be very successful.
                            I can't say about Canada, but in Britain you can get most things over the counter, in branded or generic form. Antihistamines, low grade painkillers. (Waiting time for my GP appointment would be a week at most, btw)

                            It certainly would be a big job, both in terms of finding a system that works, and getting it past those who have a vested interest in the status quo!
                            Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

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                            • #29
                              Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

                              From what I have heard, in Mexico over the counter availability of what are presciption drugs here is carried a bit too far--apparently antibiotics are available over the counter which has led to development of antibiotic resistant bacteria. Balance and sensible regulation are always needed.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

                                Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
                                From what I have heard, in Mexico over the counter availability of what are presciption drugs here is carried a bit too far--apparently antibiotics are available over the counter which has led to development of antibiotic resistant bacteria..
                                Yes, that is correct. Many drugs are available over the counter in Mexico without a prescription. But Mexico's medical policies have no big impact on drug resistant bacteria. This has been caused by the general use of antibiotics worldwide and the adaptability of bacteria and viruses.

                                Now Viagra is available without a prescription in Mexico. I wonder if overuse would lead to..............oh, never mind.
                                Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                                People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                                Comment

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