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Thread: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or Socialized Medicine?

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by surlygirly View Post
    I can't imagine what the public would do if someone tried to take that away and make us wait 6 months to get dr appointments to get Rx's for it.
    I have stated on several occasions that I belong to Medicare (or you could say the NHS medical program for the elderly in the USA).

    If I have an emergency, I can see an emergency doctor immediately, that day. If it is not an emergency, I can see my personal physician, the one I selected from a list, in a week or less, and often on the same day. If it is an emergency, I can see a specialist immediately. If it is not an emergency, it could take up to a month to see a specialist. If I need a refill on a prescription, I call the doctors office, they call the pharmacy, and I pick up the prescription that day or the next.

    I do not need a prescription to purchase Calamine lotion, Advil, or Claritin. That's nonsense. I shop for non-prescription medication at Long's or Save-On just like everyone else. I did find that I can purchase my prescription drugs at Costco or WalMart for less than I can through my Medicare drug plan. But I have the option to purchase my medications wherever I want.

    My NHS plan is wonderful! I pay $96 per month for my Medicare (plus what I and my employer paid in over the years). I have a telephone number available to me 24/7 with a live person I can talk to answer questions and give direction. I would like a similar plan made available to all Americans as an option. If you want to continue to pay for an expensive medical plan through a private insurer with windfall profits going to their stockholders and multi-million dollar salaries going to the CEOs, you would still have that option.

    There is a lot of misinformation and inaccuracies about the national health insurance program being proposed by the Obama administration. A lot of that misinformation is being circulated by the lobbyists for the health insurance industry and AMA. Most of it is tu'u mama'o. It is time that the US joined the rest of the civilized world and has a comprehensive health insurance program available to the citizens as an option.

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Thank you. I know my questions may seem stupid, but, well, you see the kind of answers I get when I try to ask them elsewhere. I knew someone here would have actual answers and not BS propaganda. It seems like I can't have conversations with my peers about anything of signficance anymore because either no one cares or what they don't know, they make up. It's easier to come here and talk to you guys.

    Matapule, I appreciate your patience with me. I knew those things didn't sound right and you just confirmed what I thought.

    Can't think of anything creative this time


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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by surlygirly View Post
    I was talking with a friend about this and she told me her brother was in Canada a while back and got poison ivy and had to get a prescription for Calamine lotion. And that most things on a NHS have to be prescribed and are not over-the-counter. Can someone claim true or false on this?

    I guess I'm just leery of an NHS because while it works great for smaller countries, I don't think trying to transform the US is going to be very successful.
    I can't say about Canada, but in Britain you can get most things over the counter, in branded or generic form. Antihistamines, low grade painkillers. (Waiting time for my GP appointment would be a week at most, btw)

    It certainly would be a big job, both in terms of finding a system that works, and getting it past those who have a vested interest in the status quo!
    Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

  4. #29

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    From what I have heard, in Mexico over the counter availability of what are presciption drugs here is carried a bit too far--apparently antibiotics are available over the counter which has led to development of antibiotic resistant bacteria. Balance and sensible regulation are always needed.

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    From what I have heard, in Mexico over the counter availability of what are presciption drugs here is carried a bit too far--apparently antibiotics are available over the counter which has led to development of antibiotic resistant bacteria..
    Yes, that is correct. Many drugs are available over the counter in Mexico without a prescription. But Mexico's medical policies have no big impact on drug resistant bacteria. This has been caused by the general use of antibiotics worldwide and the adaptability of bacteria and viruses.

    Now Viagra is available without a prescription in Mexico. I wonder if overuse would lead to..............oh, never mind.
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by surlygirly View Post
    Thank you. I know my questions may seem stupid, but, well, you see the kind of answers I get when I try to ask them elsewhere. I knew someone here would have actual answers and not BS propaganda. It seems like I can't have conversations with my peers about anything of signficance anymore because either no one cares or what they don't know, they make up. It's easier to come here and talk to you guys.
    You're questions aren't stupid! We're all coming from our own experience, plus the things we've heard other people say.

    I know I must sound like I'm banging a drum for the British Health service. It's because I get the impression that it's used as a scare story in the US. Certainly, before I came over here, I was told that British dentistry was 'pretty third world'. As a consequence, I agreed to the surgical removal of a wisdom tooth that wasn't troubling me, 'just in case'.

    I ended up marrying an English dentist! And I have all my teeth (except that one I left in Queen's), and my three kids have had years' worth of free orthodontic treatment. Spike Milligan's poem about 'English Teeth' still makes me laugh, though.

    Britain had a comparatively easy time converting to a national health service. It was immediately after the Second World War, when there was a sense of togetherness as a nation. Many doctors weren't entirely happy with it at first, but there was no established insurance industry, and Big Pharma was only in its infancy, I guess, certainly not the multinational octopus it is now.
    Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

  7. #32

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by surlygirly View Post
    Thank you. I know my questions may seem stupid, but, well, you see the kind of answers I get when I try to ask them elsewhere. I knew someone here would have actual answers and not BS propaganda. It seems like I can't have conversations with my peers about anything of signficance anymore because either no one cares or what they don't know, they make up. It's easier to come here and talk to you guys.

    Matapule, I appreciate your patience with me. I knew those things didn't sound right and you just confirmed what I thought.
    Just kinda want to chime in here, I live just across the river from Canada and I've bought OTC stuff without a 'script.

    However, my daughter does have a 'script with a Canadian pharmacy for one of her epilepsy meds (APO-Clobazam is not FDA approved). The only hoop that had to be jumped through was her being put under a Canadian doctor's 'care' in order for him to write the 'script because it's a narcotic. It gets shipped to me from Windsor and while I can get a 6 month (or more) supply of her US pharmaceuticals, I can only get 3 months of the Canadian 'script at a time due to the US narcotic laws on how much can cross the boarder at one time.

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    I have stated on several occasions that I belong to Medicare (or you could say the NHS medical program for the elderly in the USA).

    If I have an emergency, I can see an emergency doctor immediately, that day. If it is not an emergency, I can see my personal physician, the one I selected from a list, in a week or less, and often on the same day. If it is an emergency, I can see a specialist immediately. If it is not an emergency, it could take up to a month to see a specialist. If I need a refill on a prescription, I call the doctors office, they call the pharmacy, and I pick up the prescription that day or the next.
    Serious question. You honestly think it would work the same way when you had 100,000,000+ more people you're version of NHS? would you still see a emergency doctor immediately? how many months would it take for non emergencies? The number of doctors is not going to increase with the amount of new people added to the system.

    Also what's going to stop a business from dropping health coverage altogether because they know the govt offers it so they don't have to?

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by LocalMotion View Post
    Serious question. You honestly think it would work the same way when you had 100,000,000+ more people you're version of NHS?
    LM you may want to sit down for this.........but there are already 87,000,000 people on Medicare and Medicaid.

    You ask if I think "honestly". Does that imply that you think I think "dishonestly?"

    would you still see a emergency doctor immediately?
    Yes, the length of wait would depend on the nature of the emrgency. Some people go to the emegency room with a toothache. They would probably not be moved to the front of the line. A couple of weeks ago, a woman called 911 because McDonalds was not giving her the order fast enough! She thought it was an emergency. Yes, you could get emergency treatment immediately, depending on the nature of the emergency.

    how many months would it take for non emergencies?
    Well if you are willing to go to the office within minutes, you can get in on a cancellation that day or the next. Otherwise it may take as much as a week, or on very rare occasions, 2 weeks.

    The number of doctors is not going to increase with the amount of new people added to the system.
    That is an incorrect assumption. According to this study the number of physicians is going to increase faster than the population growth in the USA.

    The perceived problem of too few doctors is not a good excuse for preventing people from getting affordable medical care.

    Also what's going to stop a business from dropping health coverage altogether because they know the govt offers it so they don't have to?
    Part of the current health care initiative will REQUIRE employers provide health care coverage for their employees, even if it is the government plan which will have a cost to employers. My Medicare plan isn't free, I pay for it, $96 per month. I don't need or want cadillac medical care. I am perfectly happy with honda basic care that does everything I need without all the bells and whistles and profits for the insurance companies and multi-million dollar salaries for the CEOs.

    The bottom line is that it works in other countries and it will work well in the US.

    YES WE CAN
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by surlygirly View Post
    [...]It's easier to come here and talk to you guys.[...]
    You're absolutely right, SG! That's exactly how I felt about the election. HT made it informative, understandable and fun...regardless of the candidate of choice!

    This is the first chance I've had to give this thread some attention. Matapule's right. The Obama admin. wants OPTIONS. It's not trying to push a one-plan-fits-all reform, that I can see. But, the bottom line is...we need REFORM...ASAP! My daughter witnessed this a couple of years ago when she and a group of her friends vacationed in Italy. One got sick and was taken to an ER where she was treated immediately, professionally, with dignity and kindness. FREE! I don't know how a NHS can treat foreigners for free but, evidently, there's a way!!!

    I've heard nothing but good things about the Canadian system. We're hearing good things about the British and Mexico systems in this thread. Why is the good, ol' U S of A in dinosaur mode when it comes to health care? Why is our newborn mortality rate the 2nd worst in the world? A friend of mine died almost 3 years ago because she couldn't afford insurance or a doctor's appt. so put off that appt. until her symptoms became unbearable. She died 8 weeks later from cancer leaving behind 2 kids. She was a single mom who was laid off from her job. That shouldn't have happened.

    It doesn't seem to me that the U.S. needs to reinvent the health care reform wheel. It's working elsewhere. Can't we just take the best of those systems and tweak them to fit our needs? Well, that's a bit oversimplistic but you get the drift, I'm sure! I'm truly taken aback by the panic-driven, chicken little style emails I'm receiving from my Republican friends and family.

    It's obvious why the insurance companies don't want a NHS. But, what about the doctors? I'm curious how this will impact them.

    My Medicare kicks in on August 1. It is, without a doubt, the most confusing issue I've had to deal with since...since...maybe ever!!! Why does the government give people decisions to make that are so confusing and so important at a time in their lives when they're dealing with a decline in the number of brain cells?! However, the change over from paying $4,080./year for health ins. to paying approx. $1157./year (unless I opt for an extra $32./mo for expanded dental coverage) is really, really appealing!

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    Why is the good, ol' U S of A in dinosaur mode when it comes to health care? Why is our newborn mortality rate the 2nd worst in the world?
    That report is very misleading.

    While the United States reports every case of infant mortality, it has been suggested that some other developed countries do not. A 2006 article in U.S. News & World Report claims that "First, it's shaky ground to compare U.S. infant mortality with reports from other countries. The United States counts all births as live if they show any sign of life, regardless of prematurity or size. This includes what many other countries report as stillbirths. In Austria and Germany, fetal weight must be at least 500 grams (1 pound) to count as a live birth; in other parts of Europe, such as Switzerland, the fetus must be at least 30 centimeters (12 inches) long. In Belgium and France, births at less than 26 weeks of pregnancy are registered as lifeless.[5] And some countries don't reliably register babies who die within the first 24 hours of birth. Thus, the United States is sure to report higher infant mortality rates. For this very reason, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which collects the European numbers, warns of head-to-head comparisons by country


    The US is no where near the top 10..
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortality

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    LM you may want to sit down for this.........but there are already 87,000,000 people on Medicare and Medicaid.
    Sit down? I realize there are already 87M, but that doesn't mean anything in regards to that number almost tripling overnight once a bill goes through.

    You ask if I think "honestly". Does that imply that you think I think "dishonestly?"
    Oh come on, figure of speech, i'll try to refrain from semantics with you if you're going to get so picky...

    Yes, the length of wait would depend on the nature of the emrgency. Some people go to the emegency room with a toothache. They would probably not be moved to the front of the line. A couple of weeks ago, a woman called 911 because McDonalds was not giving her the order fast enough! She thought it was an emergency. Yes, you could get emergency treatment immediately, depending on the nature of the emergency.

    Well if you are willing to go to the office within minutes, you can get in on a cancellation that day or the next. Otherwise it may take as much as a week, or on very rare occasions, 2 weeks.
    That's based on present day. Triple the number of NHS insured and there's no way it will still be as fast.

    That is an incorrect assumption. According to this study the number of physicians is going to increase faster than the population growth in the USA.

    The perceived problem of too few doctors is not a good excuse for preventing people from getting affordable medical care.
    Once again that's based on todays number people insured. If you add 100,000,000 more people to the system there is no way they'll add doctors fast enough


    The bottom line is that it works in other countries and it will work well in the US.

    YES WE CAN
    I'm not saying we can't make it work, but it will take years if not a decade or 2 to get it to run correctly. And it's a FACT that countries that do offer a NHS have longer wait times for the doctor or get denied critical procedures.

    I'm all for it, but it's not all roses. I'm mean Medicare is on the verge of bankruptcy, so it's not as easy as just duplicating that system for all...

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by LocalMotion View Post
    ....
    That's based on present day. Triple the number of NHS insured and there's no way it will still be as fast.

    Once again that's based on todays number people insured. If you add 100,000,000 more people to the system there is no way they'll add doctors fast enough
    i'm not sure i understand what you mean by these two comments. i mean, i understand english, but practically speaking, why is it that you think more people who have national health insurance plan + current number of doctors = problem? i'm probably misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you think that as people choose the national insurance plan, there will be more people who will use healthcare facilities (whether by visiting their doctor for regular physical check up, or going to the emergency room for a heart attack or broken bones, or needing dialysis services, or because they have a polyp to remove out of their gut), and there won't be enough doctors to keep up with the increase in need. if that is what you think, how to you come to that conclusion?
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by surlygirly View Post
    I mean, we're all so addicted to Advil and Claritin, I can't imagine what the public would do if someone tried to take that away and make us wait 6 months to get dr appointments to get Rx's for it.
    Ugh

    Claritin D IS a prescription here in my state, again. This is the only thing I have found that allows me to breathe normally.

    They changed it's status because of the meth issue here in Oregon. Many decongestants were made prescription only.

    I think they messed up on Claritin though. People were using pseudoephedrine hydrochloride (Sudafed) to make their drugs. Claritin D uses pseudoephedrine sulphate. I do not know that much about chemistry, but one would think that the method used for the first one would not work on the second. Also Claritin D has the decongestant PLUS an antihistamine.
    Plus the biggest reason is economic, Claritin D is around $1 a pill. I really don't think it would be used for abuse like Sudafed.

    Oh well.
    Last edited by sunriseshell; July 19th, 2009 at 05:08 AM.
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by sunriseshell View Post
    I think they messed up on Claritin though. People were using pseudoephedrine hydrochloride (Sudafed) to make their drugs. Claritin D uses pseudoephedrine sulphate. I do not know that much about chemistry, but one would think that the method used for the first one would not work on the second. Also Claritin D has the decongestant PLUS an antihistamine.
    Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter what else is mixed with it. Meth cooks have to break it down anyway and filter out whatever is combined with it, because all they want is pure pseudoephedrine. And no, I don't make drugs in my spare time...I'm 8 classes away from finishing my degree to become a licensed chemical dependency counselor.

    The laws are a pain in the butt. I have to take Sudafed every morning for allergies and the process of buying it irritates me to no end. Especially since, like the gun laws in Great Britian, the "bad guys" will always procure what they need, and it's the innocent people who are inconvienced.

    Can't think of anything creative this time


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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by cynsaligia View Post
    i'm not sure i understand what you mean by these two comments. i mean, i understand english, but practically speaking, why is it that you think more people who have national health insurance plan + current number of doctors = problem? i'm probably misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you think that as people choose the national insurance plan, there will be more people who will use healthcare facilities (whether by visiting their doctor for regular physical check up, or going to the emergency room for a heart attack or broken bones, or needing dialysis services, or because they have a polyp to remove out of their gut), and there won't be enough doctors to keep up with the increase in need. if that is what you think, how to you come to that conclusion?
    excluding the fact that there are already many doctors offices that no longer take new patients. IT doesn't matter if it's medical or any other business, when you only have a certain amount of resources to accommodate present day customers, then you add millions more... it's called growing pains.

    it would be naive to think there wouldn't be longer waits, especially in the first couple years. my girlfriend is already given a 3 months due date for setting up a new doctors appt. i'm not saying everyone is like that but....

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by LocalMotion View Post
    [...]my girlfriend is already given a 3 months due date for setting up a new doctors appt. i'm not saying everyone is like that but....
    One of my docs retired last year. I polled a bunch of friends and decided on a choice of a new doc. I called Aug. 2008 and got an appt. for Feb. 2009! That was with a friend referral. Possibly, had it been a doctor referral, the wait time would've been less. That, and it was for a well patient check-up; not an illness or an emergency.

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by LocalMotion View Post
    my girlfriend is already given a 3 months due date for setting up a new doctors appt.
    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    I called Aug. 2008 and got an appt. for Feb. 2009! .
    Both are examples of how private pay insurance is not working in the USA - poor service for relatively high cost. When I subscribed to Meidcare, I requested an appointment for a complete physical to get me started off on the right foot. The doctor's office asked if I could come in the next day! I had plans to leave town for a while and asked for an appointment 2 weeks later and they said no problem. BTW, my cost for the physical and a complete blood work up was $25.

    Obama's national health insurance plan gives people options and choices. You can continue your private pay plan and wait months for an appointment if that's what you want or you can subscribe to NHS. It's your choice. In fact, as a senior, I am not required to subscribe to Medicare, it is my choice. But I am very happy with my choice and hope that someday soon, everyone will have that choice.
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  19. #44

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by LocalMotion View Post
    The US is no where near the top 10..
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortality
    And yet, why is that US consumers spend twice as much on health care expenses than the British, French, and Japanese.... but have a shorter healthy life expectancy than those countries?

    Our health care system is broken. Rejecting the call for any kind of meaningful reform and offering no alternative solution other than a continuation of the status-quo is assinine and unacceptable.

    Some comments:

    1) Will a national govt.-run health care option run perfectly from the get-go with no hitches and glitches? Probably not. But every country that now has universal health care coverage has had to go through a learning curve and deal with the growing pains until all the kinks and problems were worked out. Nobody got it perfectly running out from the gate. The AMA and private health insurers are taking whatever bad story or potential problem they can find about public health care coverage,.... and blowing it way out of proportion. Why? As a scare tactic. Don't let 'em kid ya!

    Problems that occur as a result of a new health care system just getting off the ground should not be a reason to be scared off by it. If Congress rejects a public health care option in 2009 because of fears that there will be glitches in the beginning, would implementing the same plan 20 years from now miraculously eliminate the early growing pains for no other reason? Balderdash!

    2) If Congressional Republicans (and a few Blue Dog Democrats) are to be believed when they spout off about how bad and inefficient a govt. run health option would be, then why is it that more than 80% of congressmembers (from both parties) as well as members of their staff choose to participate in the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program? (The fewer than 20% who don't participate? They all have spouses who have better plans.) Why is it that a health care system that the vast majority of lawmakers participate in is something that is good enough for their own families and staff,.... but somehow is not good enough to be offered to the rest of the country? Hmmmm!!!

    3) The biggest threat to meaningful health care reform is not the Republicans. They are out of power. They are outnumbered in the House. They only have 40 seats in the Senate, which means they can't resort to a filibuster to block any legislation. The biggest threat to potentially derail health care reform are the handful of conservative Democrats I talked about in the previous paragraph.

    Earlier in this thread, I talked about Sen. Finance Chair Max Baucus (D-Montana) taking all that money from the health care industry. I did a little more digging. Common Cause tracked down how much money each Senator received in campaign contributions from the health care industry. And not so coincidentally, the non-GOP senators who have been sitting on the fence when it comes to supporting a public health care option are some of the biggest recipients from the health care fatcats.

    http://www.commoncause.org/atf/cf/%7...T_JUNE2009.PDF

    Health care industry contributions, 2000-2008 (figures rounded-off)
    1) Sen. Arlen Spector (D-Pennsylvania) $7.3 million
    2) Sen. Blanche Lincoln (D-Arkansas) $6.3 million
    3) Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Connecticut) $5.9 million
    10) Sen. Max Baucus (D-Montana) $2.9 million

    With the Democrats controlling the White House and holding a majority in the House and a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, the Dems have no excuse for not passing major health care reform this year. If they can't do it in 2009, then forget it. By 2010, the President's approval ratings may slip and he won't have the popular mandate. Also, '10 is a mid-term election year, which may cause more Democratic lawmakers to feel uneasy about passing controversial legislation. History shows: Congress will not pass any legislation that involves raising income taxes (even if it is only on the rich) or taxing health care benefits during an election year.

    The bottom is,... serious health care reform has to happen THIS YEAR. There is no "wait till next year" for this.

  20. #45

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    It's not complicated. Just eat healthier.

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
    It's not complicated. Just eat healthier.
    Yes...to a degree. That's just one piece to a much larger puzzle called the human body.
    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    [...]In fact, as a senior, I am not required to subscribe to Medicare, it is my choice. But I am very happy with my choice and hope that someday soon, everyone will have that choice.
    CHOICE is the magic word! That said, there are downsides to Medicare. Part D, drug coverage...there is a late enrollment penalty if one decides to, initially, not enroll. The penalty is 1% per month. One gets penalized for saving the government money!

    Personally, the list of prescriptions Medicare, or it's approved plans, covers does not include even one of my prescriptions. That doesn't mean that, possibly, in say 5 years, one or more might make it on the list so I need to cover myself with a drug plan now to avoid that hefty penalty later. In the meantime, one of my generic drugs costs $277./mo. (for which I've been paying $5.). I'm taking that particular rx because I don't get side effects...after trying so many others with unacceptable side effects. Now I'm back to the drawing board in search of an affordable substitute. This sounds easy but, trust me, it's not. All of my current prescriptions will be out of my own pocket with Medicare altho' I will sign up for a drug plan. After crunching lots and lots of numbers and once I find an acceptable substitute for that expensive generic then Medicare will make sense for me.

    The issue of Medicare has been a bit of a nightmare. But, at least it's a choice.

  22. #47
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    http://www.commoncause.org/atf/cf/%7...T_JUNE2009.PDF

    Health care industry contributions, 2000-2008 (figures rounded-off)
    1) Sen. Arlen Spector (D-Pennsylvania) $7.3 million
    2) Sen. Blanche Lincoln (D-Arkansas) $6.3 million
    3) Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Connecticut) $5.9 million
    10) Sen. Max Baucus (D-Montana) $2.9 million

    The fact that they have this money to throw around shows that the American public are paying WAY over the actual costs for their meds and treatment. The words 'socialised medicine' are used as a scare. You don't need to go all the way down that road, though speaking personally, I would rather subsidise low-income working people, the unemployed who are seriously looking for work (my own kids fall into both these categories) people with chronic illness, and children than the industry fatcats.



    I've been trying to follow this debate, from this side of the world. This has been useful:

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/hea.../?hpid=topnews
    Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

  23. #48
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    The penalty is 1% per month. One gets penalized for saving the government money!
    No Tutu, it is just the opposite. The elderly tend to use more drugs as they age up. Medicare wants you to sign up early when you are using fewer drugs that way they can dollar cost average the expense over one person's lifetime. If you sign up early, you save the government money over your lifetime (on average).

    Personally, the list of prescriptions Medicare, or it's approved plans, covers does not include even one of my prescriptions.
    Medicare has a complete list of generics to cover all conditions and a list of branded drugs where no generics are currently available. If someone wants to take a branded drug when a generic is avaiilale, that is where choice and options is available.

    one of my generic drugs costs $277./mo. (for which I've been paying $5.). ........... Now I'm back to the drawing board in search of an affordable substitute.
    Have you tried Costco, Sam's Club, WalMart, etc? I found that I saved about 60% on my presctriptions by purchasing at Costco as compared to my Medicare pharmacy. Again, that is where choice comes in.

    The issue of Medicare has been a bit of a nightmare. But, at least it's a choice.
    In the beginning Medicare was a puzzle to me. Then I took a Medicare sponsored seminar (2 hour class) and the program became very clear to me. It really helped me to have a specialist walk me through it. There are a number of different programs available through Medicare in an attempt to accomodate the varied needs of the elderly. With so many choices, it can be confusing.

    The bottom line is that branded prescription drugs are unnecessarily too expensive in the US. I can appreciate and accept that there is a lot of R&D in developing a new drug and the developer needs to amortize those costs over a fixed period of time. But the pharmaceutical companies are spendng way too much money on lobbying efforts to maintain corporate windfall profits.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  24. #49

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Betsey View Post
    The fact that they have this money to throw around shows that the American public are paying WAY over the actual costs for their meds and treatment. The words 'socialised medicine' are used as a scare. You don't need to go all the way down that road, though speaking personally, I would rather subsidise low-income working people, the unemployed who are seriously looking for work (my own kids fall into both these categories) people with chronic illness, and children than the industry fatcats.
    If only destitute and uninsured people were the only ones that need help.

    As the following link shows, medical expenses were the cause of nearly two-thirds of families declaring bankruptcy in the US in 2007. (Compared with only 8% in 1981. An unmistakeable indication that medical costs in America has gotten out of control.) And of all those medical bankruptcies, over 75% of the families had medical insurance. So the idea that only "low income" families are in need of health care reform is really a myth.

    http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...%3B+government

    "For middle-class Americans, health insurance offers little protection. Most of us have policies with so many loopholes, co-payments, and deductibles that illness can put you in the poorhouse," said lead author Himmelstein. "Unless you're Warren Buffett, your family is just one serious illness away from bankruptcy."

  25. #50
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    If only destitute and uninsured people were the only ones that need help.
    [/B]"[/I]
    That's the most depressing thing I've read in a long time.

    I don't understand where the money goes. Does anyone?
    Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

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