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Thread: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or Socialized Medicine?

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    No Tutu, it is just the opposite. The elderly tend to use more drugs as they age up. Medicare wants you to sign up early when you are using fewer drugs that way they can dollar cost average the expense over one person's lifetime. If you sign up early, you save the government money over your lifetime (on average).
    Well, all right! But I still think the increase is silly. Just mnsho!
    Medicare has a complete list of generics to cover all conditions and a list of branded drugs where no generics are currently available. If someone wants to take a branded drug when a generic is avaiilale, that is where choice and options is available.
    That's the list to which I was referring. It does not cover all drugs, generic or brand, for all conditions. My doc can file for an exception but that can also be denied. In the meantime the high cost is out of pocket. Another of my prescriptions runs approx. $100./mo. It is not available in generic and is the only one of several I tried that works. And, that's the Costco price! I did find it cheaper online; almost half the price.

    What I'm getting at is, after 26 years on the same HMSA plan, Medicare is a step down mainly when it comes to drug coverage. My hope is I won't, in the future, need an expensive drug that Medicare won't cover. I'd love to just keep my existing HMSA plan but the costs are going up every year and it's become unaffordable. Medicare will certainly help in that regard but it's the drug situation that scares me. I'm trying to figure out what to do about my current prescriptions but it's the down-the-road unknown that's a bit freaky!
    Have you tried Costco, Sam's Club, WalMart, etc? I found that I saved about 60% on my presctriptions by purchasing at Costco as compared to my Medicare pharmacy. Again, that is where choice comes in.[...]
    In addition to the stores you list above, I also checked online. $277. is the least expensive price I could find.

    Choice is still the magic word!

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by LocalMotion View Post
    excluding the fact that there are already many doctors offices that no longer take new patients. IT doesn't matter if it's medical or any other business, when you only have a certain amount of resources to accommodate present day customers, then you add millions more... it's called growing pains.

    it would be naive to think there wouldn't be longer waits, especially in the first couple years. my girlfriend is already given a 3 months due date for setting up a new doctors appt. i'm not saying everyone is like that but....
    i think the physician shortage has way more to do with an issue that was tangentially yet vigorously/colorfully discussed on this thread than it has to do with the healthcare reform option obama wants to achieve.
    superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

    "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

    nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by LocalMotion View Post
    excluding the fact that there are already many doctors offices that no longer take new patients. IT doesn't matter if it's medical or any other business, when you only have a certain amount of resources to accommodate present day customers, then you add millions more... it's called growing pains.
    Does this mean there are millions of people who are currently NOT getting health care? Or am I missing something here?
    Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post

    In addition to the stores you list above, I also checked online. $277. is the least expensive price I could find.
    I feel your pain, Tutu. I'm in the same boat with my meds. Two of them are outrageously expensive and Wal-Mart's brand is a whole $.50 cheaper a pill. I had to stop taking another Rx b/c it's another $400 a month that we can't afford.

    So the idea that only "low income" families are in need of health care reform is really a myth.
    You're right. I need surgery, but our insurance has a $6k deducible we are maybe $200 into. My husband and I have decided that we just can't afford it right now. We don't have $5800. We don't have any credit cards. And we are not a low income family by any means- he makes great money.

    I can tell you where it goes. Mortgage, car payment, insurance, utilities, food, gas, my Rx (which are over $500 a month), student loans, debt we are paying off from when we were young and didn't know better, medical bills we're paying off from previous surgeries of mine.

    I really wish our high school had offered a person finance class. No one explained to me the importance of credit and how much it would affect my future. You make a few mistakes when you're 18 and you end up paying for them for the rest of your life because that "it falls off your credit report after 7 years" BS? Is NOT true.

    Can't think of anything creative this time


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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by cynsaligia View Post
    i think the physician shortage has way more to do with an issue that was tangentially yet vigorously/colorfully discussed on this thread than it has to do with the healthcare reform option obama wants to achieve.
    I agree i never said it was due to healthcare reform (since we don't even have it in place today). It's the state of today. That's why when millions that don't have healthcare now, get it with obame healthcare reform, wait times will increase. it's just a reality.

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Betsey View Post
    Does this mean there are millions of people who are currently NOT getting health care? Or am I missing something here?
    Yes. there are millions of people in the United States without healthcare, mainly because they can't afford it.

  7. #57

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
    It's not complicated. Just eat healthier.
    I'm going to be mean, which is outta character for me. But, I was talking about obesity in young people. Obesity shouldn't happen in high numbers when their metabolism is at its best.

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
    I'm going to be mean, which is outta character for me. But, I was talking about obesity in young people. Obesity shouldn't happen in high numbers when their metabolism is at its best.
    What happens when metabolism is NOT at its best?
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    obesity is a much more complicated issue than anyone wishes. if it were simply a matter of (a) genes or (b) bad eating habits or (c) other health conditions or (c) lack of exercise or (d) lack of education or (e) not caring for one's health, and so on, things would be so much easier.

    do i feel anger when i go to the original pancake house and see morbidly obese parents feeding their not-yet morbidly obese but definitely and decidedly overweight six year old daughter an adult sized plate of bacon and cheese omelet, banana pancakes stacked three high, and an extra large glass of orange juice? most definitely.

    at the same time, i can't help but feel empathy for someone like the formerly 600 lb plus jackie finley, whose road to being super-morbidly obese started when she received a blood transfusion decades ago that gave her hepatitis. i wish i could remember exactly what was said on her documentary as to why she needed the transfusion and how it put her on a path to being so large she could not get into the back of a mini van without the help of two people and so much exertion that she had to sit in her wheelchair, breathless and anxious, between attempts.

    Quote Originally Posted by surlygirly View Post
    I really wish our high school had offered a person finance class.
    amen to that! luckily, it seems that moves are (slowly) being made to teach high school students across the nation about personal finance and economics. it would be great if every high school campus had at least one instructor like this.

    thanks for the clarification, localmotion. let's hope that obama's healthcare reform is merely the first big step in improving US healthcare for everyone.
    Last edited by cynsaligia; July 23rd, 2009 at 11:08 PM.
    superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

    "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

    nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

  10. #60

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Have you ever listen to Health Talk with Hesh on K-108? He can be brutally honest about our eating habits and the bad stuff in our foods.

  11. #61
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
    I'm going to be mean, which is outta character for me. But, I was talking about obesity in young people. Obesity shouldn't happen in high numbers when their metabolism is at its best.
    But your metabolism is affected by what you eat...

  12. #62

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by LocalMotion View Post
    But your metabolism is affected by what you eat...
    Not to mention how much exercise you get.

    Getting back to health care,....

    The president's nationally televised press conference on Wednesday was supposed to have focused on health care reform. Instead, the President went off-message in a big way by making a controversial comment on the Cambridge (Mass.) police dept.'s handling of an arrest involving Harvard Prof. Henry Louis Gates in his own home. Obama could have used the press conference to emphatically state to the nation, "Congress should not take a recess until a national health care plan is passed." Instead, the media has focused on Obama saying that the Cambridge police dept. acted "stupidly" in arresting a man in his own home. While there is a legitimate issue regarding racial profiling in the latter story and it made folks like Al Sharpton happy, it seems to me that if ever there was a critical time for the President not to let himself be distracted from his health care agenda, this was it.

    As a consequence, it appears that the Senate will go into its August recess with no plan in place. In the meantime, the AMA, private insurers, and big pharma will be cranking up their propaganda machines, planting seeds of doubt about the viability of a public option.

    Congress will go back into session in September, but time is beginning to run out on getting something done this year.

  13. #63

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    http://www.kitv.com/health/20192494/detail.html
    This is a costly problem we Americans don't want to admit.

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    This answered some of my questions about why health care is so expensive in the US:

    [URL="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=111063048"[/URL]

    It's an interview with Maggie Mahar, who wrote Money-Driven Medicine. One of her points was:

    I think that people are unnecessarily fearful, partially because they don't understand that the health care they have now is not very good. The U.S. does not have the best health care in the world, and medical researchers and doctors will tell you this.

    If you read in medical journals, you'll see studies done by American doctors comparing outcomes for various diseases. Outcomes are often not the best in the U.S. In terms of managing chronic diseases, we rank quite low.

    So no one wants to believe this because people want to feel I can trust my doctor, and I know my doctor is the best, and what he's doing is the very best possible thing he could do for me. They think anything else is scary.

    So when people worry about losing something, they're worried about losing something in the context of thinking what they have now is better than it really is. Secondly, if we didn't reform the system, you have to remember what the president said in a recent press conference, which is the system we have now is a plan where costs are going to double in the next 10 years, and many of you who now have insurance will find yourself uninsured, alone in a market where you have to, somehow or another, come up with the money to pay for insurance that is twice as costly as it is today. That's the alternative to health care reform.
    Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

  15. #65

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    While the topic of health care reform is a very serious and pressing matter, the President offered this lighter moment:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJp-roulVsA

    "I got a letter the other day from a woman. She said, 'I don't want government-run health care. I don't want socialized medicine. And don't touch my Medicare!"

    While it's healthy to have an informed and educated debate over a public option, as Obama points out, there is a lot of ignorance floating around out there. That woman obviously doesn't know what she's talking about. But the fact that she's using terms like "govt.-run health care" and "socialized medicine" is a clear indication that she's been fed a steady diet of right-wing political talking points and private insurance industry propaganda.

  16. #66
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    This morning I received an email from a mainland friend...a very, very conservative, very, very anti-Obama Republican. In part it read:
    Did you have any experiences with Kaki Care program in Hawaii? Apparently, it did not last very long. The proposed healthcare bill would be on a grander scale. I have great insurance coverage, which I prepaid when working. I'd hate to lose it. I've witnessed Canada and England first hand on many trips to both countries-- really poor quality.
    Never having heard of "Kaki Care", I searched on Google. The only hit was a transcript from a Hannity show on Fox!!! I loved this line:
    (voice-over) The word "kaki" means child in the Hawaii native tongue,...
    Great researching, Fox, altho' I wouldn't expect anything better. It's called "Keiki Care"! And, I'd not heard of Keiki Care so I made that comment to my friend, along with a small dig about Fox while refusing to discuss politics or healthcare reform! I didn't even bother to mention the word "options"! My friend is too hard core!

    ETA: Loved the link, FM!

  17. #67
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    I'm getting sick of people just refusing to even listen to the proposed plan, too. And then spouting off crap they know nothing about. I don't care about your brother's friend's cousin's bad experience with Poison Ivy in Canada when he couldn't buy his Calamine lotion over the counter. Apparently, that's BS and so are you. I bet you just made that crap up. And even if you didn't, then he should be schooled in the infinite wisdom of "leaflets-three". But you don't care, because you HAVE insurance! Some of us don't and need medical care that we can't pay for! And we're sitting on our couches with ice-packs, snarfing down Advils (because of course, you can't ask a doctor for pain pills, b/c then you're "drug seeking", even though your insides feel like they're on fire and you can't move), and praying that the hospital will work out some kind of payment plan for surgery that won't require a 25% down payment.

    Sorry. Sorry. It's just been a bad week. I'm a Republican, always have been. But I think I want this to go through so I can finally get some ing insurance around here and I'm tired of listening to all the Good Ol' Boy talk. If it doesn't work, then can't they scrap it? I mean, Prohibition didn't work. Trial and error. And ANYTHING'S gotta be better than shelling out $250 for 10 minutes of a PA telling me my blood pressure's normal and here's your refills for the extremely expensive Rx's you need.

    And for the last two days, I've been all achy and have had a low-grade fever and a sore throat and my huz thinks I'm getting swine flu, which is SO not funny after me making this post. 4 of the Texas Rangers have it now.

    Not to mention I have a cavity the size of a grapefruit that's been there for years and a phobia of the dentist. And it's hurting too.

    Okay, I think that's it. Sorry. Didn't mean for all that to come out, but there you go. And all because of Kaki Care. I'm off to go drink more TheraFlu and pout.

    Can't think of anything creative this time


  18. #68
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    I have great insurance coverage, which I prepaid when working. I'd hate to lose it.
    That's great! I'm happy for that person. I'm happy they had the option and choice and could afford to purchase prepaid insurance.

    How is passing Obama's insurance initiative going to take away this person's coverage? How would they "lose it?"

    What happens to that person when their insurer arbitrarily decides not to extend their coverage for whatever reason and gives them their prepaid money back? What about those people who could not afford to purchase prepaid insurance while working? Just because this person has a great insurance policy why would they begrudge someone less fortunate the same opportunity?

    In Tonga, we would call this person "kai po". NOT a pleasant recognition. Kai po means "eat at night." In Tonga it is the greatest transgression not to share food. You always eat during the day, out in the open, so as to share food with anyone who passes by. If you eat at night, you do so in the dark so no one can see. It is an indication of selfishness, self-centeredness, and self-righteousness. These are perhaps the worst sins in Tongan society.

    My father had GREAT employer provided insurance too, after retiring...up until age 90. Nobody lives till 90, right? OOOOOOPS! He just celebrated his 90th last year and guess what! He lost his GREAT insurance plan. His insurance company refused to extend his coverage at any price because of existing medical conditions. Fortunately he has Medicare to fall back on, but his mdedical costs have gone up as a result, but not like if he had no insurance at all.

    I've witnessed Canada and England first hand on many trips to both countries-- really poor quality.
    I doubt this person is an expert on the English and Canadian medical systems, they certainly aren't on the Hawaiian "kaki" system . But, whatever. They would not be forced to join the US system. If they are happy with what they have, then they can keep it. Why would they want to prevent people an alternative if they don't have or can't get or can't afford private insurance at this time?

    The Obama initiative is an option, an alternative for people. Let's hope that Congress does not make it ineffective with their amendments. And let's hope they pass it quickly.

    Medicare is a wonderful program and according to national surveys, the elderly are about 90% to 95% happy with it (I know, the Faux News surveys show something less, but they survey Faux News watchers). It is time we had a program similar to Medicare, available by choice as an option, for everyone in the US.

    Yes we can!
    Last edited by matapule; July 29th, 2009 at 02:41 AM.
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  19. #69

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    If we were to look at America as an organism, the health insurance industry itself is a cancer, devouring so much nutrient (money) from the rest of the system that other organs like the auto industry and small business for example are starved out of existence, and many of the individual cells, individual citizens, are also either starved out of existence or have their absorption of nutrient (money) skewed unsensibly by the boundless appetite of the health insurance tumor. The tumor insulates itself from the immune system, the government, by bribing elected officials with what are politely called campaign contributions. And now the gvt. seems determined to impose a fix, a surgery, that they know will not work because it does not address the actual problem, which is the health insurance industry. It would be better to do nothing at all and just let the patient wither away and die than to cut the patient up with a pointless, costly surgery that only makes the tumor even wealthier. America has the historic inability to deal with problems before they become disasters, usually because the people promoting a coming disaster are making a lot of money and are willing to spread it around to the government to keep themselves plush. So the best thing we could do is nothing. The Republicans are right. Let the system go ahead and collapse. Then and only then will the public have the blood lust rage and fury necessary to produce a government to do what should have been done all along--sieze the health insurance companies and their money and shut them down. They are parasites and like any parasite, they need to be removed. At the best, health insurance companies shuffle paper, and at worst they murder people by denying medical care--having the entire economy endangered by these parasites is a mighty high price to pay for their so called service. Perhaps with a truly furious, enraged public we would get a government that represented the interests of the people instead of the selfish piggish interests of lobbyists, maybe lobbying could even be made a crime. So by all means, let the disasterous collapse come. Its our only hope.

    I apologize in advance for this rant. Too much coffee.

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    I'm not ready to throw the health care industry out with the bathwater yet. What we have is a health care industry that is essentially unregulated and through unorganized collusion has fixed pricing on health care services. What the industry needs is a good dose of competition.....from a government sponsored national health care plan.

    I believe people should have choices and options. If they want to continue to purchase over priced private policies that are short on service (IMO) then so be it. But they should also have the option of purchasing national health insurance at a competitive price that is affordable. I have that choice with Medicare, or I can purchase private insurance at around five times the cost of Medicare. I would like everyone to have that choice.

    *****OFF TOPIC.....I would also like people to have a choice with cable TV, Internet, telephone, electric utilities, etc. I really detest the cable companies = high prices+poor service.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

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  21. #71

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    On the Rachel Madow show tonight Rep. Weiner laid it on the line--we don't NEED the insurance companies. Amen. He introduced a put-up-or-shut-up amendment to a bill that would have eliminated Medicare just to see how much Repubicans really hate gubmint health care, and behold, not a single vote. Its time to put some fire in the belly, get some courage in the na'au and get this done. Screw the insurance companies and their *%$# lobbyists.

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Today a family member emailed me the pdf file for the ‘‘America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009’’. This 1000-page document is kinda hard for my poor brain to follow, but if Congressmen can read it, so can I.

    I've read up to pg168 so far; a lot of references to healthcare systems already in place, automatic enrollment of newborns in Medicaid (I think this already happens, but I'm not sure) and adults. Of course you have to qualify for it. It seems that Medicaid will be the fallback position. There is an interesting thing I have found so far, though. Let me just share this with you....

    ‘‘Subpart A—Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage

    ‘Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.

    (a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of:
    (1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over
    (2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.
    (pg 167-168)

    the requirements are described prior to this point in the act.

    From what I have read so far, this is a whole new department, with funds set aside inthe US Treasury for retiree coverage (55-65) and for those under the Federal Poverty Level, etc, etc.

    Here's the link for the file. Enjoy!

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by cyleet99 View Post
    but if Congressmen can read it, so can I.!
    Cyleet, you are imminently more qualified to read it than 99% of Congressmen.

    Blessed be.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    hehehehe



    (psst--where do i send the check?)

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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    [drum roll, please...]

    For my post # 8000 ( --- ), I proudly announce that at midnight tonight I will be enrolled in government sponsored health care! Time flies when you're having fun...

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