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Thread: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or Socialized Medicine?

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    You go gurl!! Congratulations for paving the way for the rest of us...

  2. #77
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Heh. There aren't many Medicarians on HT!

  3. #78
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    No.....I mean gummit sponsored healthcare for all. I'm up to page 350 in the Act, and I'm thinkin' it's coming.

  4. #79
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by cyleet99 View Post
    No.....I mean gummit sponsored healthcare for all. I'm up to page 350 in the Act, and I'm thinkin' it's coming.
    Whoot! I am now officially a sponsor.

    I just got back the estimate on my surgery. The total for the surgery is over $6k. We are responsible for $3384.84. Upfront. The hospital is being nice and letting us only pay 75% upfront, but that's still $2538.63. Cuz that's gonna happen.

    Thanks for dregging through that document, Cyn, and giving us some hope!

    Can't think of anything creative this time


  5. #80

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    In the midst of the health care debate comes this interesting side development.

    In Hawaii, can you guess who received the most thorough health care coverage provided by the state, up until now?

    Answer: Non-citizens from Micronesia, Palau, and the Marshall Islands. They received full and comprehensive medical coverage, with the state paying 100%! Surprised? I was, upon first learning of it.

    But that will change for adults and non-pregnant women, effective Sept. 1.

    http://www.kitv.com/money/20271024/detail.html

    Now, I'm aware of the Compact of Free Association that the US govt. signed with these Pacific Island nations. I'm aware of how some of these people (esp. the Marshallese) were impacted by the nuclear weapons testing during the 1940s-'50s. But I don't see why all of that made the taxpayers of Hawaii liable for 100% of these people's medical bills, when it was the actions of the federal govt. that displaced them from their original homes and contributed to their poor health conditions. With so many taxpaying "citizens" in Hawaii not able to afford health care coverage for themselves, it is high time that the DHS drop 100% paid-for-by-the-state health plans for these non-citizens, as the feds should start footing a bigger portion of the costs associated with caring for these people.

  6. #81
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    I read over the compact documents, Frankie; then I read this study. Poor planning by Washington, with Hawaii taking the fall; the compacts say the feds will pay and reimburse Hawaii, but the repayment grants did not supply near enough funding.

    Wonder if Congress knows this is waiting in the wings to bite them in the nether regions? Or will they remove the migrants from the list of eligibles?

    I don't blame Hawaii for stopping this program. I would vote to stop it.

  7. #82

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Keith Olbermann calls out each of the lawmakers by name (Republican and Democrat) who are obstructing health care reform,.... and oh, just so happens to have thousands of dollars in contribution from the health care industry. This is the most impassioned "Special Comment" from Keith that I've seen since Obama took office.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/...77034#32277034

  8. #83
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    If we were to look at America as an organism, the health insurance industry itself is a cancer...
    I'm sorry, but if we were to look at US citizens as an organism (restricting myself to America as per the quote), they are the cancer, overrunning species and habitats left and right, destroying ecological biosystems to supplant them with monocultures of crops that support their own obesity, promoting a belief in the sanctity of human life, but not the sanctity of ALL life, yada, yada, yada... In the year 9595...
    Last edited by salmoned; August 5th, 2009 at 11:40 AM.
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

  9. #84
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Spoke to yet another person tonight that commented on the new plan with this, "Well, you do realize that under this new plan that only really, really sick people will be able to get to the doctor, right? So if you're not deathly ill, you'll be waiting for months."

    I asked where she got this information and she said from her husband who travels internationally for work. I said, "Huh, that's funny, because a lot of people I talk to from countries that already have NHS said that's not true."

    I'm so over people spreading crap like this. Grrr. And the worst part? That was my own mother.

    Can't think of anything creative this time


  10. #85

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Your mom is probably getting sucked in by the 60Plus.org commercials:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AVi_uGpCGY

    Problem is, the 60+ Association is almost exclusively backed by the big pharmaceutical companies:

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...us_Association


    The 'Front Group' section of Source Watch is pretty good for finding out who's really behind what push for this or that agenda:

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...l:Front_groups

  11. #86
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    one thing that's really ticking me off is that demagogues like palin are making the end-of-life planning clause out to be some "death panel" where elderly have to justify being able to continue living.

    HTers discussed the dangers of not having an advanced directive or other kind of end of life planning in place here. the whole nation was brought into the drama of what should be a very personal choice--one that can be a gift you give to your loved ones should you be in a hospital, unconscious, and in very dire circumstances so that they don't fight over what decisions should be made next. as one HTer noted, going through the process of making end-of-life planning is painfully emotional, but, in the opinion of this non-clinical healthcare worker, it's absolutely necessary.

    if you don't already have an advanced directive and would like one, let me know. i can email one to you.
    superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

    "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

    nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

  12. #87
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by cynsaligia View Post
    HTers discussed the dangers of not having an advanced directive or other kind of end of life planning in place here. ..........in the opinion of this non-clinical healthcare worker, it's absolutely necessary..
    Thanks, Cyn, been there and done that.

    Shame on Palin and Rep. Michelle Bachmann for obfuscating the facts about a very important decision that people need to make as they age up.

    We are going to get health care reform. And in my opinion, the more aggressive the reform, the better.

    YES WE CAN!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  13. #88

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    For anyone who still harbors doubts about the need for health care reform, please watch the following video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKI9be55N00

    I wonder: how is it that an insurance company whose CEO earned $3.2 million in salary, has nearly three-quarters of a billion dollars worth of stock options, and owns a 9 bedroom mansion can deny legitimate claims to people who are in dire need?

    Support health care reform NOW!!! If not for the 47 million people who are uninsured, then do it before a catastrophic illness strikes you or someone in your family,..... and having your insurance claim denied. If it can happen to the people shown in the video, it can happen to anybody.

  14. #89
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Well, yesterday I plunked down my $2384.17 and I finally get to have my surgery in the morning! They'll bill me for the rest. Too bad I still have $6 left on my deductible...

    WHEN is this bill going to pass??

    Can't think of anything creative this time


  15. #90
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    I watched a little of Obama's New Hampshire presentation this am on Yahoo; another orchestrated session (orchestrated in that he knew who was fer it and who was agin it as he called on folks.)

    It is surprising to me that the administration took so long to change the focus of their publicity. Now it is health "insurance" reform, even though, in the first place, the bill was obviously a reform of health insurance, not health care. Now the warnings are not about the millions with no health care, but about the chances that YOU could lose your health care if you have a catastrophic event or that YOU may not be able to get health care due to your preexisting conditions.

    I cannot understand why they did not focus on this in the first place. I think it would have made a lot of difference in the public's reaction.

  16. #91
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by surlygirly View Post
    Well, yesterday I plunked down my $2384.17 and I finally get to have my surgery in the morning! They'll bill me for the rest. Too bad I still have $6 left on my deductible...

    WHEN is this bill going to pass??
    Wouldn't kick in until at least 2012 or 2013. I no think you can wait that long. Will be thinking about you; good luck and God Bless.
    Cindy

  17. #92

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?


  18. #93

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    The angry people at the town hall meetings remind me of baseball managers when they yell at umpires. I remember a sports video of ranting baseball managers set to the music of The Authority Song by John Mellencamp. Those old guys in tight uniforms yelling at umpires always make me . There should be a video of those angry town hall meetings people and the over the top baseball managers intercuting to I Fought Authority, Authority Always Win. There's a line in the song of, "Dying to me don't sound like all that much fun" that might relate to Healthcare.

  19. #94
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by cyleet99 View Post
    (orchestrated in that he knew who was fer it and who was agin it as he called on folks.)
    How did you come to that conclusion? Questioners were called at random. I know some of the am conservative radio jocks have said this, but they have a history of twisting the facts.

    Now it is health "insurance" reform, even though, in the first place, the bill was obviously a reform of health insurance, not health care.
    The "public option" is still the most important single piece of this legislation. I will be disappointed with anything less. I would like everyone to have the same OPTION I have for public health insurance.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  20. #95
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    "THE PRESIDENT: All right, last question, last question right here. This is a skeptic, right?

    Q I am a skeptic.

    THE PRESIDENT: Good.

    Q Thank you, Mr. President, for coming to Portsmouth. My name is Michael Layon (ph). I'm from Derry, New Hampshire, District 1 in the congressional district. I'm one of the people that turned myself in on the White House Web page the other day for being a skeptic of this bill. I'm proud to have done so."


    Taken from this transcript of the health care Town Hall in Portsmouth, Aug 11, 2009, heard on the video I viewed. After further review of the transcript, it may be that he only knew that his last question would be from a skeptic, but he did say that he wanted to focus on those who did not agree with him.

    I stand by my reporting.

    BTW, I agree with you that if the public option is removed, the teeth have been jerked from the jaws of health insurance reform (so to speak.)

  21. #96

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    There is not much positive in the forecast for swine flu this coming year--the forecast says about half the people in America will get sick and there may be around 90,000 deaths. The only positive thing is that the epidemic may put enough strain on our private health care system to collapse it, the insurance companies may have to take a hike on their obligations, and then government will have to step in, even Republicans might end up demanding it. This country can never plan for averting a disaster, it has to actually have a disaster before taking appropriate action, so ironically a miserable flu season might end up being a benefit by destroying the present system. Silver linings.

  22. #97

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    With Ted Kennedy passing away from brain cancer, I can't help but wonder how much of a difference the Massachusetts senator might have made had he not been ill and was able to take on an active role in shepherding a public health care option through the Senate. I mean, President Obama has the charisma and oratory skills to mesmirize the public and all. But getting thousands to chant "Yes We Can!" at town halls and rallies doesn't cut any mustard with the Republicans and conservative Democrats in Congress. That's where Kennedy's legislative experience and political savvy would have been so valuable in being able to hammer out some agreement that would have got enough senators on board with supporting some kind of meaningful reform.

    Besides Kennedy's absense from the health care debate, another person who might have made a huge difference was Tom Daschle. Health & Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius is charming and had a reputation for bipartisanship in her home state of Kansas, but she is not a D.C. insider. I think that had Obama gotten his first choice (Daschle, the former Senate majority leader) to serve as the White House's point man when it came to health care legislation, the President would have had an easier time in getting all the Democrats to line up behind the administration when it came to supporting the public option.
    Last edited by Frankie's Market; August 26th, 2009 at 04:22 AM.

  23. #98
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    My best gift came from the feds...government subsidized health care!!!
    Actually, Tutu, this is a common misconception. Medicare is not "subsidized" by the government per se. Medicare is funded by the $96 taken from the recipients SS check plus contributions from the recipient and their employer through a lifetime of work.

    Right now, Medicare is projected to be operating in the red by about 2020. The problem is when recipients live longer than the actuarial tables predict. People are living longer now through better medicines and healthier lifestyles. This coupled with skyrocketing health care costs leads to the potential for a problem, ten years down the road. This shortfall can be solved in a number of ways: delaying the age of Medicare eligibility, increased deductions in paychecks while working, increase the payment deducted from the SS check, or (matapule's preference) extend paycheck deductions from the current $106,000 annual income.

    In the meantime Tutu, enjoy your new health care benefits as I do. We've earned them!

    Health care reform NOW! YES WE CAN!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  24. #99
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    I hear ya, Matapule, and am aware of that. It just makes for a better story to expound upon it a bit!!! It is a government health care plan altho', as you rightfully point out, it's funded by...us!

    You bring up a good point about Medicare. I assume the actuaries also include the all too many people who die before they're eligible.

    I'm still navigating the Medicare seas and have hit a couple of swells altho' I have chosen my plan and am enrolled. My current HMSA policy will end as of Sept. 1. That makes me nervous only because it's a plan I've had for 27 years and has worked for me. However, no longer having to pay that $350/monthly premium is helping to smooth those seas just a bit!

  25. #100
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    Medicare is funded by the $96 taken from the recipients SS check plus contributions from the recipient and their employer through a lifetime of work.

    Right now, Medicare is projected to be operating in the red by about 2020.

    Your post was intriguing....

    According to the SSA Trustees Report Summary, the Medicare taxes I am paying into the system now are going directly back out, paying for current needs:

    "As was true in 2008, Medicare's Hospital Insurance (HI) Trust Fund is expected to pay out more in hospital benefits and other expenditures this year than it receives in taxes and other dedicated revenues[read 'from your SS check.'] The difference will be made up by redeeming trust fund assets. Growing annual deficits are projected to exhaust HI reserves in 2017...."

    It goes on to say that the Part B is currently being funded by what is withheld from your SS check.

    From what I gather, new Medicare recipients are the ones being hit with:

    "It is expected that about one quarter of Part B enrollees will be subject to unusually large premium increases in the next two years."


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