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Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or Socialized Medicine?

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  • #46
    Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Originally posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
    It's not complicated. Just eat healthier.
    Yes...to a degree. That's just one piece to a much larger puzzle called the human body.
    Originally posted by matapule View Post
    [...]In fact, as a senior, I am not required to subscribe to Medicare, it is my choice. But I am very happy with my choice and hope that someday soon, everyone will have that choice.
    CHOICE is the magic word! That said, there are downsides to Medicare. Part D, drug coverage...there is a late enrollment penalty if one decides to, initially, not enroll. The penalty is 1% per month. One gets penalized for saving the government money!

    Personally, the list of prescriptions Medicare, or it's approved plans, covers does not include even one of my prescriptions. That doesn't mean that, possibly, in say 5 years, one or more might make it on the list so I need to cover myself with a drug plan now to avoid that hefty penalty later. In the meantime, one of my generic drugs costs $277./mo. (for which I've been paying $5.). I'm taking that particular rx because I don't get side effects...after trying so many others with unacceptable side effects. Now I'm back to the drawing board in search of an affordable substitute. This sounds easy but, trust me, it's not. All of my current prescriptions will be out of my own pocket with Medicare altho' I will sign up for a drug plan. After crunching lots and lots of numbers and once I find an acceptable substitute for that expensive generic then Medicare will make sense for me.

    The issue of Medicare has been a bit of a nightmare. But, at least it's a choice.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

      Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
      http://www.commoncause.org/atf/cf/%7...T_JUNE2009.PDF

      Health care industry contributions, 2000-2008 (figures rounded-off)
      1) Sen. Arlen Spector (D-Pennsylvania) $7.3 million
      2) Sen. Blanche Lincoln (D-Arkansas) $6.3 million
      3) Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Connecticut) $5.9 million
      10) Sen. Max Baucus (D-Montana) $2.9 million

      The fact that they have this money to throw around shows that the American public are paying WAY over the actual costs for their meds and treatment. The words 'socialised medicine' are used as a scare. You don't need to go all the way down that road, though speaking personally, I would rather subsidise low-income working people, the unemployed who are seriously looking for work (my own kids fall into both these categories) people with chronic illness, and children than the industry fatcats.



      I've been trying to follow this debate, from this side of the world. This has been useful:

      http://voices.washingtonpost.com/hea.../?hpid=topnews
      Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

        Originally posted by tutusue View Post
        The penalty is 1% per month. One gets penalized for saving the government money!
        No Tutu, it is just the opposite. The elderly tend to use more drugs as they age up. Medicare wants you to sign up early when you are using fewer drugs that way they can dollar cost average the expense over one person's lifetime. If you sign up early, you save the government money over your lifetime (on average).

        Personally, the list of prescriptions Medicare, or it's approved plans, covers does not include even one of my prescriptions.
        Medicare has a complete list of generics to cover all conditions and a list of branded drugs where no generics are currently available. If someone wants to take a branded drug when a generic is avaiilale, that is where choice and options is available.

        one of my generic drugs costs $277./mo. (for which I've been paying $5.). ........... Now I'm back to the drawing board in search of an affordable substitute.
        Have you tried Costco, Sam's Club, WalMart, etc? I found that I saved about 60% on my presctriptions by purchasing at Costco as compared to my Medicare pharmacy. Again, that is where choice comes in.

        The issue of Medicare has been a bit of a nightmare. But, at least it's a choice.
        In the beginning Medicare was a puzzle to me. Then I took a Medicare sponsored seminar (2 hour class) and the program became very clear to me. It really helped me to have a specialist walk me through it. There are a number of different programs available through Medicare in an attempt to accomodate the varied needs of the elderly. With so many choices, it can be confusing.

        The bottom line is that branded prescription drugs are unnecessarily too expensive in the US. I can appreciate and accept that there is a lot of R&D in developing a new drug and the developer needs to amortize those costs over a fixed period of time. But the pharmaceutical companies are spendng way too much money on lobbying efforts to maintain corporate windfall profits.
        Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

        People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

          Originally posted by Betsey View Post
          The fact that they have this money to throw around shows that the American public are paying WAY over the actual costs for their meds and treatment. The words 'socialised medicine' are used as a scare. You don't need to go all the way down that road, though speaking personally, I would rather subsidise low-income working people, the unemployed who are seriously looking for work (my own kids fall into both these categories) people with chronic illness, and children than the industry fatcats.
          If only destitute and uninsured people were the only ones that need help.

          As the following link shows, medical expenses were the cause of nearly two-thirds of families declaring bankruptcy in the US in 2007. (Compared with only 8% in 1981. An unmistakeable indication that medical costs in America has gotten out of control.) And of all those medical bankruptcies, over 75% of the families had medical insurance. So the idea that only "low income" families are in need of health care reform is really a myth.

          http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...%3B+government

          "For middle-class Americans, health insurance offers little protection. Most of us have policies with so many loopholes, co-payments, and deductibles that illness can put you in the poorhouse," said lead author Himmelstein. "Unless you're Warren Buffett, your family is just one serious illness away from bankruptcy."
          This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

            Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
            If only destitute and uninsured people were the only ones that need help.
            [/B]"[/I]
            That's the most depressing thing I've read in a long time.

            I don't understand where the money goes. Does anyone?
            Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

              Originally posted by matapule View Post
              No Tutu, it is just the opposite. The elderly tend to use more drugs as they age up. Medicare wants you to sign up early when you are using fewer drugs that way they can dollar cost average the expense over one person's lifetime. If you sign up early, you save the government money over your lifetime (on average).
              Well, all right! But I still think the increase is silly. Just mnsho!
              Medicare has a complete list of generics to cover all conditions and a list of branded drugs where no generics are currently available. If someone wants to take a branded drug when a generic is avaiilale, that is where choice and options is available.
              That's the list to which I was referring. It does not cover all drugs, generic or brand, for all conditions. My doc can file for an exception but that can also be denied. In the meantime the high cost is out of pocket. Another of my prescriptions runs approx. $100./mo. It is not available in generic and is the only one of several I tried that works. And, that's the Costco price! I did find it cheaper online; almost half the price.

              What I'm getting at is, after 26 years on the same HMSA plan, Medicare is a step down mainly when it comes to drug coverage. My hope is I won't, in the future, need an expensive drug that Medicare won't cover. I'd love to just keep my existing HMSA plan but the costs are going up every year and it's become unaffordable. Medicare will certainly help in that regard but it's the drug situation that scares me. I'm trying to figure out what to do about my current prescriptions but it's the down-the-road unknown that's a bit freaky!
              Have you tried Costco, Sam's Club, WalMart, etc? I found that I saved about 60% on my presctriptions by purchasing at Costco as compared to my Medicare pharmacy. Again, that is where choice comes in.[...]
              In addition to the stores you list above, I also checked online. $277. is the least expensive price I could find.

              Choice is still the magic word!

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

                Originally posted by LocalMotion View Post
                excluding the fact that there are already many doctors offices that no longer take new patients. IT doesn't matter if it's medical or any other business, when you only have a certain amount of resources to accommodate present day customers, then you add millions more... it's called growing pains.

                it would be naive to think there wouldn't be longer waits, especially in the first couple years. my girlfriend is already given a 3 months due date for setting up a new doctors appt. i'm not saying everyone is like that but....
                i think the physician shortage has way more to do with an issue that was tangentially yet vigorously/colorfully discussed on this thread than it has to do with the healthcare reform option obama wants to achieve.
                superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

                "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

                nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

                  Originally posted by LocalMotion View Post
                  excluding the fact that there are already many doctors offices that no longer take new patients. IT doesn't matter if it's medical or any other business, when you only have a certain amount of resources to accommodate present day customers, then you add millions more... it's called growing pains.
                  Does this mean there are millions of people who are currently NOT getting health care? Or am I missing something here?
                  Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

                    Originally posted by tutusue View Post

                    In addition to the stores you list above, I also checked online. $277. is the least expensive price I could find.
                    I feel your pain, Tutu. I'm in the same boat with my meds. Two of them are outrageously expensive and Wal-Mart's brand is a whole $.50 cheaper a pill. I had to stop taking another Rx b/c it's another $400 a month that we can't afford.

                    So the idea that only "low income" families are in need of health care reform is really a myth.
                    You're right. I need surgery, but our insurance has a $6k deducible we are maybe $200 into. My husband and I have decided that we just can't afford it right now. We don't have $5800. We don't have any credit cards. And we are not a low income family by any means- he makes great money.

                    I can tell you where it goes. Mortgage, car payment, insurance, utilities, food, gas, my Rx (which are over $500 a month), student loans, debt we are paying off from when we were young and didn't know better, medical bills we're paying off from previous surgeries of mine.

                    I really wish our high school had offered a person finance class. No one explained to me the importance of credit and how much it would affect my future. You make a few mistakes when you're 18 and you end up paying for them for the rest of your life because that "it falls off your credit report after 7 years" BS? Is NOT true.

                    Can't think of anything creative this time

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

                      Originally posted by cynsaligia View Post
                      i think the physician shortage has way more to do with an issue that was tangentially yet vigorously/colorfully discussed on this thread than it has to do with the healthcare reform option obama wants to achieve.
                      I agree i never said it was due to healthcare reform (since we don't even have it in place today). It's the state of today. That's why when millions that don't have healthcare now, get it with obame healthcare reform, wait times will increase. it's just a reality.
                      website - http://www.brianhancock.com
                      blog - http://blog.brianhancock.com

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

                        Originally posted by Betsey View Post
                        Does this mean there are millions of people who are currently NOT getting health care? Or am I missing something here?
                        Yes. there are millions of people in the United States without healthcare, mainly because they can't afford it.
                        website - http://www.brianhancock.com
                        blog - http://blog.brianhancock.com

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

                          Originally posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
                          It's not complicated. Just eat healthier.
                          I'm going to be mean, which is outta character for me. But, I was talking about obesity in young people. Obesity shouldn't happen in high numbers when their metabolism is at its best.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Obamanomics: Healtcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

                            Originally posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
                            I'm going to be mean, which is outta character for me. But, I was talking about obesity in young people. Obesity shouldn't happen in high numbers when their metabolism is at its best.
                            What happens when metabolism is NOT at its best?
                            Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                            Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

                              obesity is a much more complicated issue than anyone wishes. if it were simply a matter of (a) genes or (b) bad eating habits or (c) other health conditions or (c) lack of exercise or (d) lack of education or (e) not caring for one's health, and so on, things would be so much easier.

                              do i feel anger when i go to the original pancake house and see morbidly obese parents feeding their not-yet morbidly obese but definitely and decidedly overweight six year old daughter an adult sized plate of bacon and cheese omelet, banana pancakes stacked three high, and an extra large glass of orange juice? most definitely.

                              at the same time, i can't help but feel empathy for someone like the formerly 600 lb plus jackie finley, whose road to being super-morbidly obese started when she received a blood transfusion decades ago that gave her hepatitis. i wish i could remember exactly what was said on her documentary as to why she needed the transfusion and how it put her on a path to being so large she could not get into the back of a mini van without the help of two people and so much exertion that she had to sit in her wheelchair, breathless and anxious, between attempts.

                              Originally posted by surlygirly View Post
                              I really wish our high school had offered a person finance class.
                              amen to that! luckily, it seems that moves are (slowly) being made to teach high school students across the nation about personal finance and economics. it would be great if every high school campus had at least one instructor like this.

                              thanks for the clarification, localmotion. let's hope that obama's healthcare reform is merely the first big step in improving US healthcare for everyone.
                              Last edited by cynsaligia; July 23, 2009, 11:08 PM.
                              superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

                              "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

                              nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

                                Have you ever listen to Health Talk with Hesh on K-108? He can be brutally honest about our eating habits and the bad stuff in our foods.

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