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Thread: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or Socialized Medicine?

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by cyleet99 View Post
    Growing annual deficits are projected to exhaust HI reserves in 2017...."


    That is approximately correct, depending on who's analysis you read. That is why there will need to be new sources of funding due to longevity of seniors and escalating health care costs. I favor increasing the cap on medicare wages to fund the shortfall.

    It goes on to say that the Part B is currently being funded by what is withheld from your SS check.
    I presume that is correct, I am not sure.

    "It is expected that about one quarter of Part B enrollees will be subject to unusually large premium increases in the next two years."
    Maybe yes, maybe no. What Obama is trying to do is regulate the health care industry to curb runaway costs and also the streamline the system to eliminate inefficiencies.

    He needs are support. YES WE CAN.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  2. #102
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    [/I]
    Maybe yes, maybe no. What Obama is trying to do is regulate the health care industry to curb runaway costs and also the streamline the system to eliminate inefficiencies.
    The government "curb runaway costs and also the streamline the system to eliminate inefficiencies"

  3. #103
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by LocalMotion View Post
    The government "curb runaway costs and also the streamline the system to eliminate inefficiencies"
    All it takes is a strong leader, something we haven't had in a long time.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  4. #104
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    All it takes is a strong leader, something we haven't had in a long time.
    I expect he's strong enough to raise our taxes to make healthcare reform possible.
    Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

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  5. #105
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Random View Post
    I expect he's strong enough to raise our taxes to make healthcare reform possible.
    Yes, Random, if you make over $250K annually, your taxes WILL be going up. You must be one of those "trust fund babies."
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  6. #106
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Okay, I haven't been closely following this thread, but here's an interesting bit about cost/value disparity (or systemic corruption) - The Fix is In

    (Hooray, my link worked!)
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

  7. #107
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    Talking Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    You must be one of those "trust fund babies."
    I wish.
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  8. #108
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by salmoned View Post
    Okay, I haven't been closely following this thread, but here's an interesting bit about cost/value disparity (or systemic corruption) - The Fix is In

    (Hooray, my link worked!)
    If there is ever a need for such a reform, begin with eliminating the Hsiao model from both Medicare and privatized HMOs.

    It may peeved many specialist doctors, though, but who cares. Generally, we all visit primary care doctors first.
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  9. #109
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    I must admit I'm disappointed with the entire presidential thrust. We have 'socialized medicine' for the military, for veterans and for the elderly. Either it's good for us all or it's not good at all. If we don't extend it to the entire citizenry, let's take it away from those 'special interest groups'. It just seems obvious that a one payer system has the greatest potential to curb costs and redirect inefficient spending. Why should health care be an entitlement for the elderly, but not for all?

    This talk of obligating the uninsured to purchase their own health insurance does nothing to contain costs. As well, the next financial debacle could be the failure/bailout of the insurance companies, oops, I forgot we already bailed out AIG...
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

  10. #110
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Interesting poll results from CNN.com moments ago:

    Will Congress pass most of President Obama's health care proposals this year?

    Yes... 50%... 194,499

    No... 50%... 194,903

    Total Votes: 389,402
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  11. #111

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
    Interesting poll results from CNN.com moments ago:

    Will Congress pass most of President Obama's health care proposals this year?

    Yes... 50%... 194,499

    No... 50%... 194,903

    Total Votes: 389,402
    Recount? How many were hanging chads?

  12. #112

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
    How many were hanging chads?
    We keep tellin' ya, man - he's from Kenya, not Chad!

  13. #113
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by salmoned View Post
    Why should health care be an entitlement for the elderly, but not for all?
    Because maybe we've earned it? Same as we've earned our measley social security which, if we are taking it, is not enough to afford medical care/meds and still have enough for rent & groceries. Let alone any quality of life. I've worked for 50 years and damn it - I've earned the right to some benefits! and Medicare is not free - we still have to pay for it. and it only covers a small % of the cost of our prescriptions.

    Sorry, this is a very touchy subject for me.
    "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
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  14. #114
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Yep...what Anapuni808 wrote...

  15. #115

    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
    Recount? How many were hanging chads?
    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
    We keep tellin' ya, man - he's from Kenya, not Chad!
    Leo Lakio… THAT one belongs in the Best Comeback Line thread!
    To be, or musubi... What was da question?

  16. #116
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
    Because maybe we've earned it? Same as we've earned our measley social security which, if we are taking it, is not enough to afford medical care/meds and still have enough for rent & groceries. Let alone any quality of life.
    Social security was never designed as a complete retirement program. Some retirees try to use it that way, but in most cases, Social Security alone will not provide for a quality of life most of us aspire to. Social Security is merely a supplemental retirement program.

    and Medicare is not free - we still have to pay for it.
    Yes, that is true. However, after about age 75, a Medicare recipient begins to take more out of the health care system than they paid in. So at that point it does become a form of socialized medicine. Currently Congress is trying to "fix" Medicare (separate from the whole health care debate) by increasing payroll deductions to cover a potential Medicare recipient to a life expectancy that is more realistic in this day and age.

    We old folks need to stop living so long!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  17. #117
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    We old folks shoulda had more kids to support us in our old age.

  18. #118
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    Social security was never designed as a complete retirement program. Some retirees try to use it that way, but in most cases, Social Security alone will not provide for a quality of life most of us aspire to. Social Security is merely a supplemental retirement program
    It's nice for those who can afford to use Social Security as a "supplement". However, in the real world, which is where I live - there are many oldsters who don't have any other form of income. So, they don't really have a choice. Maybe it's due to poor advance planning, or circumstances during their work careers, financial disasters - but many don't have any other form of retirement income. and lets not forget those who had a 401K with employers who have now gone bankrupt & have lost everything.

    I applaud those who can use SS as a supplement. But, not everyone is so fortunate.
    "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
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    Talking Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    We old folks need to stop living so long!
    Stop telling people not to smoke, or to eat healthy, or to get exercise.
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  20. #120
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
    and lets not forget those who had a 401K
    My 401K is now a 201K! but it is beginning to gain ground again.

    There isn't enough money in the world to cover everyone's lack of planning or victimized circumstances.
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    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  21. #121
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    or the fact that many only have enough from their jobs to get by, day to day. Without any extra to sock away for retirement.

    Thats enuf from my point of view. I seem to be the only one who feels this way and I'm tired of trying to make a point.
    "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
    – Sydney J. Harris

  22. #122
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    You're definitely not alone, anapuni. The majority of those you describe are not on HT otherwise you'd have an outpouring of support! People who are fortunate enough to have the means to plan for a comfortable retirement are often not understanding that there are so many millions of folks who have the desire to plan but not the means. And, there are as many reasons for this as there are people. They're not all victims or poor planners.

  23. #123
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
    or the fact that many only have enough from their jobs to get by, day to day. Without any extra to sock away for retirement.

    Thats enuf from my point of view. I seem to be the only one who feels this way and I'm tired of trying to make a point.
    No, you are definitely not alone. I also think that many of us here are in the same boat. But, like me, tend not to join in these types of conversations for a variety of reasons.

  24. #124
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
    or the fact that many only have enough from their jobs to get by, day to day. Without any extra to sock away for retirement.
    Does that mean that on a Social Security retirement benefit that the referenced should be able to live better than they did when working? There are programs for the indigent elderly. Some of these programs include food stamps, Medicaid, subsidized housing and utilities. The bus system for the elderly in Hawai'i is one of the best systems I have ever seen. If I were to retire in Hawai'i, I doubt I would own a car, I would use the bus system by choice.

    What is a minimum lifestyle in retirement? Does that mean that everyone should be paid a retirement benefit that will allow them to retire in Hawai'i? Who should pay for that "paradise" lifestyle that those who are still working can't even afford? The cost of living varies so much across the USA and world that it is hard to make a universal social security benefit fit every circumstance.

    I have a female friend, 77, who lives in Fresno on Social Security alone. She has never been married and she has no children. She gets the minimum monthly Social Security benefit, that means about $600 or $700 per month. She rents a one bedroom apartment in an apartment complex of mixed cultures. Her furniture is hand me downs or gifts from friends and relatives. She has no car so she walks and uses the bus, consequently, she is in better shape than I. She purchases her clothing at Macy's or Ross when they have a big sale. She only owns about 4 different outfits, but that's all she really needs. She doesn't eat extravagantly but she doesn't eat dog food either. She never goes out for a meal unless someone is having a "seniors day." She utilizes all the welfare programs that are available to her including Medicaid and subsidized utilities. She is doing just fine and she is happy surrounded by friends and family who do "nice things" for her.

    I live in a beautiful spot in Mexico because I can live here for about 15% to 20% less than a similar lifestyle in Central California (where I grew up, lived and worked and where my family continues to live). I would love to retire in Hawai'i spending the same amount I do now. I can't afford to do that, perhaps someday, but for now it is just a dream. I don't feel that Social Security owes me that dream. If I want to achieve that dream, it is up to me to figure out how to afford it.

    And what about all the elderly in every country around the world? Don't they deserve the same retirement lifestyle to which those in the US aspire? I know some elderly Mexicans who would just like to just visit Hawai'i. They can't even afford to visit relatives that live 500 miles away in Mexico.

    It is all about choices and options. I get a fixed amount of retirement income. I get to decide where and how to spend it. I could live like nobility on that retirement income in Tonga. It is an option that I have seriously considered. I could make my retirement income go about twice as far in Mississippi compared to SoCal (the equivalent of doubling my Social Security check), but Mississippi is not an option I have seriously considered (neither is Fresno where I was reared - been there, done that). But I may have to return to Fresno if the well continues to run dry and I WILL make a happy life there if necessary. YES I CAN.

    This is an interesting discussion. I hope that those who are still working are paying attention. I try to be generous and share with those who are less fortunate, it is the Tongan way, but I just don't have enough to fix everyone, neither do USA taxpayers.
    Last edited by matapule; September 12th, 2009 at 04:35 AM.
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  25. #125
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    Default Re: Obamanomics: Healthcare Reform or European-Modeled Socialized Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    And what about all the elderly in every country around the world? Don't they deserve the same retirement lifestyle to which those in the US aspire?
    We as Americans have no control over government decisions about the elderly in the rest of the world. And for the last 30 years of my working life, I have had no control over the government removing the Social Security taxes from my paychecks. Yes, I feel I deserve to receive Social Security when my time comes, and I am doing my best to help subsidize that income.

    The elderly in other countries deserve to have their needs supplied, too, but I bet they did not pay elder taxes to provide for it. I know quite a few American elderly who donate funds to provide for needy elders in other countries.

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