Penile Pasting > Vaginal Evisceration?

[cynsaligia]

i'm struck by the dichotomy in our society where "bobbit" has become slang yet most people don't know that 100 to 140 million girls and women worldwide are victims of female genital mutilation. and no, i don't mean this, i mean this:

Female genital mutilation comprises all procedures that involve partial or total removal of the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons.

so i wasn't surprised, tho i was disheartened, to read this in salon.com's broadsheet:

You've probably heard by now about the trial of Matthew Jaeger going on in Lawrence, Kansas. That is, if you live in or near Lawrence, Kansas.
Jaeger, 24 -- said to have a history of physically and sexually abusing his former girlfriend -- is accused of breaking into her apartment in October 2007 and attacking and kidnapping her after finding her with another man. (Warning: very gory details ahead.) Jurors in the trial recently viewed an interview with the accuser, 23, videotaped from her hospital bed several days after the incident. On the tape, the woman "tells police that Jaeger choked her until she passed out and that when she regained consciousness, she was bleeding profusely from her vagina," the Lawrence Journal-World reported. "I don't recognize myself down where he hurt me. It's a part of myself I can no longer recognize. It doesn't look like me. It looks like it's been mutated and deformed."

this story ran mostly in area media. however, this story made national coverage (the following quote from CBS):

STOCKBRIDGE, Wis. (CBS/AP) Four Wisconsin women are accused of tying up a married man and gluing his penis to his stomach after allegedly finding out he was romantically involved with each of them.

i guess domestic violence cases where women are savagely beaten--yes, even DOWN THERE--are a dime a million and barely newsworthy, whereas when a man suffers punishment by adhesive for his cheating ways and it gets page after page on google (as the broadsheet piece pointed out).

peshkwe, while i certainly agree with you, maybe your assertions of the greatness of pussy isn't one that's shared by enough people in this world, eh? at least the difference in news coverage re these stories plus the general acceptance of feminizing adjectives as insults would indicate so.

sidenote 1: those who are interested in the "ending" of the bobbit story will find the wikipedia entry compelling.

sidenote 2: i am gratified about the comments left by readers of the kansas story, who vastly support the victim and decry the defense's claim that her injuries were caused by her falling on the bed rail.

sidenote 3: current tv's documentary of female genital mutilation. a song about picking ripe mangos is sung during the ceremony (thankfully, a reenactment and not an actual one) -- the mango being a metaphor for the young girl's clitoris, about to be cut off.

[matapule]

Re: Penile Pasting > Vaginal Evisceration?

yet most people don't know that 100 to 140 million girls and women worldwide are victims of female genital mutilation..

This is one subject I don't joke around with. I support women's rights and justice. I think this is a topic that needs more discussion and exposure (I can't think of a better word and no wise cracks). I am opposed to sexual violence by/against both men and women.

[Peshkwe]

Re: Penile Pasting > Vaginal Evisceration?

peshkwe, while i certainly agree with you, maybe your assertions of the greatness of pussy isn't one that's shared by enough people in this world, eh? at least the difference in news coverage re these stories plus the general acceptance of feminizing adjectives as insults would indicate so.

When...for the majority of hetro males...nine months is spent trying to get out of something and then, upon reaching puberty, the rest of life is spent trying to crawl back in....

That mysterious and at times uncontrollable pull can hold a hella lot of power over that base lizard brain part of a normally higher thinking human being, and what that little lizard wants most is to be free from fear.

If it can overpower or otherwise neutralize the source of that fear it will, particularly when a very precious and amusing bit of the self has to actually be totally encompassed and basically 'dissappeared' by the something he doesn't understand on a primal instinctual level (and then that same something pops out a little human)....it's like ZOMG!! Duuuuude......lizardman ca'int do dat.....lizardman no likey stuffage lidat dat lizardman no unnerstand.....iss way spooky!

It doesn't help that there are myths from way back that help support that fear...all the way back to ancient cultures with the stories of 'Vagina Dentata'.

Of course the modern developed fore-brain didn't get any help overcoming the lizard brain by the assorted religious sects demanding only one mate (and in doing so villainizing the vagina 'cause it tempts the penis into eeeeeeeeeviiiiil) and then ol Siggy Freud's theories that all revolved around the penis (either fear of losing it or of not having one), and the whole penis envy thing.

So for the folks who can't venture out of the shallow end of the sapience pool without their Sponge Bob water wings...fear must be overcome and controlled. To do that, the thing that inspires the greatest fear must be physically modified so it's no longer fear invoking or it must be destroyed.

Azz why Fear Mongering works so well.

[SusieMisajon]

Re: Penile Pasting > Vaginal Evisceration?

The woman who was mutilated by her boyfriend had a bad boyfriend, the man that was glued by his girlfriends was a bad boyfriend.

No justification for either act.

But the two stories are not at all similar, or even similar to female genital mutilation....all they have in common genitals, not the reasons for the mutilation.

[Barry]

Re: Penile Pasting > Vaginal Evisceration?

Members I am not being rude by writing this to SusieMisajohn in French.

Poussin de Susie j'écris ceci en français. Mes entrailles sont bouleversées par le fait qu'un homme peut blesser une femme. Les gens ici sur ce site peuvent penser que je suis un whimp si j'écrivais en arrière en anglais.
Dans ma partie du monde, n'importe quel homme qui a fait cela serait mort.

[cynsaligia]

Re: Penile Pasting > Vaginal Evisceration?

But the two stories are not at all similar, or even similar to female genital mutilation....all they have in common genitals, not the reasons for the mutilation.

duh.

Poussin de Susie j'écris ceci en français. Mes entrailles sont bouleversées par le fait qu'un homme peut blesser une femme. Les gens ici sur ce site peuvent penser que je suis un whimp si j'écrivais en arrière en anglais.
Dans ma partie du monde, n'importe quel homme qui a fait cela serait mort.

translates via a free online translator to the following. it's crude, but the rest of us who don't speak french get the point:

Susie's chick I write this in French. My entrails are confused due to the fact that a man can hurt a woman. People here on this site can think that I am a whimp if I wrote in English behind.
In my part of world, any man who made it would have died.

[salmoned]

Re: Penile Pasting > Vaginal Evisceration?

It seems to me you are confusing aberrant local behavior with generally accepted cultural practices elsewhere. There is no ONE standard of behavior that is right for all people everywhere. We [here in the U.S., or 'western civilization',] don't know 'the one right way to live' because there isn't one, and we don't have the right to sit in judgment of the practices of others when they are enjoying their own lifestyles in their own countries.

This attempt to prevent the continuation of a tradition can be compared with missionary interference with Hawaiian traditions in days of yore. If locals decide to press for a change in their traditions, then so be it, but far be it for outsiders to decide right from wrong.

Diversity is a rule of life. If we break that rule, we risk our lives.

[matapule]

Re: Penile Pasting > Vaginal Evisceration?

we don't have the right to sit in judgment of the practices of others when they are enjoying their own lifestyles in their own countries. .

Eh brah, you don't seem to get it. These women/girls in other countries are being mutilated against their will.

[salmoned]

Re: Penile Pasting > Vaginal Evisceration?

I watched the video, no one was asking to be excused from the 'rite of passage'...

I, myself, was circumcised as an infant - how barbaric, eh? Did it hurt? You bet! Maybe I should sue the doctor... Naaah, just one of the 'rites of passage' in my own culture's traditions. I can live with it, no matter how perverse (even if I were to believe I have now entered into a convenant with God because of it - Ha Ha!).

I think YOU don't get it. This isn't something the men are forcing on the women, the women do it to themselves, so there's no gender issue here. If they choose to insert a large disc into a slit in their lips or ears or otherwise mutilate themselves by poking holes in their bodies or tattooing their skin or chopping off their hands, IT'S THEIR CHOICE AS A COMMUNITY and we cannot and should not determine that it is in any way WRONG - even if it leads to the extinction of their community (frankly, it could be resulting in the survival of their community).

You are advocating 'One World Order'. I disagree with that position.

[cynsaligia]

Re: Penile Pasting > Vaginal Evisceration?

salmoned, you do bring up a valid point. and for the record, i don't feel that your opinion necessarily clashes with the observations i was making in my initial post.

my main point was to draw a comparison between the penile adhesive story coverage versus the domestic violence/vaginal mutilation story. the initial statement re bobbit vs. FGM was an introduction into the fact that phallic-centric stories generally get more "front page" coverage in the media--so much so, that we have a slang based on a domestic violence story that coalesced into penectomy--than any vaginal injury stories.

i am conflicted about what might be called the "first worlder's" imposition of right and wrong, particularly bcs i myself am of two worlds (my parents both having been born and raised in the philippines--a country very much negatively affected by imperialism, even now). at the same time, i'm not sure the circumcision analogy works. a man with a circumcized penis can still very much urinate normally and have enjoyable sex. a woman whose clitoris has been removed or has had her vagina sewn up is greatly likely not to enjoy sex and suffer vaginal health complications that will adversely affect other health issues.

i'm curious, salmoned: what are your thoughts about communities that do not allow females to gain the same level of education as males? would you feel the same way about a hypothetical culture that, for whatever reason, routinely cut off the right foot of every boy who reached the age of 13?

[salmoned]

Re: Penile Pasting > Vaginal Evisceration?

I believe each culture has its own best interests in mind when determining traditions and practices. Therefore, I cannot in good conscience support any interference. It shows great hubris for one culture to determine the fate and practices of another, especially when that 'higher' culture is in an enormous state of flux itself. Now that we have left out those millions, we can focus on your main point. Unfortunately, that issue is of no interest to me, thank you very much.

[Random]

Re: Penile Pasting > Vaginal Evisceration?

A very diplomatic answer, salmoned.

True, a culture within itself must evolve, just as it did for American's. As sick and disgusting as we view from the outside, only those within that society, be it Chinese or Saudi Arabian, have the power to change their own culture for the better.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Penile Pasting > Vaginal Evisceration?

Yet, do we have to blindly accept what another nation tells outsiders is its "culture," even when it is in violation of what are generally accepted by much of the world as human rights?

Many regimes have cruelly oppressed portions of their country's population while claiming that "outsiders" don't understand that state's "culture." You can find examples in Serbia ... Myanmar ... Uganda ... Zimbabwe ... China ... Saudi Arabia ... and countless others.

How do we balance a sense of non-interference with a responsibility to relieve suffering in our fellow humans?

[Adri]

Re: Penile Pasting > Vaginal Evisceration?

I watched the video, no one was asking to be excused from the 'rite of passage'...

I, myself, was circumcised as an infant - how barbaric, eh? Did it hurt? You bet! Maybe I should sue the doctor... Naaah, just one of the 'rites of passage' in my own culture's traditions. I can live with it, no matter how perverse (even if I were to believe I have now entered into a convenant with God because of it - Ha Ha!).

I think YOU don't get it. This isn't something the men are forcing on the women, the women do it to themselves, so there's no gender issue here. If they choose to insert a large disc into a slit in their lips or ears or otherwise mutilate themselves by poking holes in their bodies or tattooing their skin or chopping off their hands, IT'S THEIR CHOICE AS A COMMUNITY and we cannot and should not determine that it is in any way WRONG - even if it leads to the extinction of their community (frankly, it could be resulting in the survival of their community).

You are advocating 'One World Order'. I disagree with that position.

When concluding that no one is being forced to mutiliate their genital against their will, one must also consider the societal pressures put to bear of these females and that the genital mutilation is often done at such a young age that there may not be the capacity to object. In the societies that mutilate female genitals, as I understand it, the mutilation is done to make the female acceptable in the society and to potential husbands. If they are not mutilated, they are considered improper, immoral, unacceptable. In many of these places, survival depends upon getting a good husband and being accepted by their community. Female relatives may insist on mutilating the genitals of their female children because to not do so would be to make their beloved children outcast or worse, to make them fair game for rape. In a way, yes, men are forcing women to perform such mutilations. How many mutilations would be done if the males had absolutely no reaction one way or another to it not being done? If they didn't make the women who were not mutilated outcast and subject to attacks?

and there are women (such as Waris Dirie) who are fighting against the practice of female genital mutilation in their own cultures and are asking for help to overcome the ingrained beliefs and customs and enforce it.

http://www.waris-dirie-foundation.com/en/

Whether male babies get circumcized is generally a choice of the parents based upon religious or health beliefs but is generally not a means of trying to subjugate and control males, is generally not a mark of making a male "less than" females. Even still, there are people who believe circumcision should be the choice of the male to be circumcized and not anyone else.

[Adri]

Re: Penile Pasting > Vaginal Evisceration?

eta: I am not in support of the whole sale imposing of one culture's beliefs upon another but I do think that there are certain things that rise to the level of human rights violations and where there are severe human rights violations, that we all should stand in opposition to it.

oops, I meant to edit my original post not make a new one. edited to delete the big quote of myself *g*