Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 62

Thread: Stinky The Bus

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    No. California
    Posts
    2,556

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    Garcia is going to kill the bill

    http://www.kitv.com/news/20696852/detail.html

    I'm on at least 4 different buses each day getting to/from work. I would much rather have the council do something to ban phone use on the buses. and I would really appreciate if The Bus would enforce the rules they already have!
    Last edited by anapuni808; September 2nd, 2009 at 06:07 PM.
    "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
    – Sydney J. Harris

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Honolulu
    Posts
    582

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    A great idea..... and then proceeds to urinate and/or take a crap right in their pants? Oh, that actually did happen on a bus I was riding on years ago in Kalihi.
    I was on a bus on the mainland and some guy urinated himself and it dribbled down to the floor. When the bus went up a hill the urine flowed backwards on the floor onto another passenger's backpack he had set on the floor. The owner of the backpack was pissed by the piss on his backpack.

    Another happy mass transiter.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Honolulu
    Posts
    582

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    Quote Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
    Garcia is going to kill the bill

    http://www.kitv.com/news/20696852/detail.html

    I'm on at least 4 different buses each day getting to/from work. I would much rather have the council do something to ban phone use on the buses. and I would really appreciate if The Bus would enforce the rules they already have!
    If they are going to ban phones then talking to friends sitting on the bus should be banned to. And no looking out the windows, it's not professional. People should sit at attention like the military.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    No. California
    Posts
    2,556

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    Your snarky comment was not necessary. Sitting next to someone who is inanely chatting about their date last nite, or having a fight with someone is very unpleasant.

    Once again, I'm guessing our difference of opinion has to do with age and believing that rules are in place for a reason and that rules apply to ALL of us. It has to do with simple courtesy and respect for your fellow passengers. and respect for yourself as well. People used to have common sense - that very sadly seems to have gone by the wayside.
    "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
    – Sydney J. Harris

  5. #30

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    Quote Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
    Garcia is going to kill the bill

    http://www.kitv.com/news/20696852/detail.html
    So Garcia is worried about a constitutional/discrimination challenge?

    Let me ask this question: How long has the King County (Seattle) transportation code of conduct been in force now? And has it ever faced legal challenge? If the answers to those questions are 1) at least several years and 2) never, then maybe Garcia should have done more research before caving in like a house of playing cards on this legislation.

    If the proposed legislation had some technical flaws and needed to be more precisely worded so as to head off any inappropriate discrimination against certain classes of people, then that's fine. But there has to be some sort of measures that can be taken against passengers who spit, urinate, or engage in some other blatant behavior that creates an unsanitary environment in the bus. To force innocent, rules-abiding passengers to tolerate the inconsiderate actions of a few rude people is simply asinine.

    Quote Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
    It has to do with simple courtesy and respect for your fellow passengers. and respect for yourself as well. People used to have common sense - that very sadly seems to have gone by the wayside.
    Totally agreed! And this is why these kinds of rules and restrictions have to be set up. People who wrap themselves in the constitution and fancy themselves as high-moral guardians of civil liberties have totally lost touch with what is practical and common-sense in the real world.

    Fine! If the ACLU and other people living in ivory towers will scare our lawmakers from making practical and common-sense legislation to upkeep our public transportation facilities and to look after the health and comfort of the vast majority of the passengers, then let 'em have their way! As the shenanigans on the bus increase, more people will use cars, which will increase road traffic and fuel usage.

    This is supposed to be considered progress? This is supposed to be considered forward thinking? Oh brother!!!!

  6. #31

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    Let me ask this question: How long has the King County (Seattle) transportation code of conduct been in force now? And has it ever faced legal challenge? If the answers to those questions are 1) at least several years and 2) never, then maybe Garcia should have done more research before caving in like a house of playing cards on this legislation.
    I don't yet have an answer to (2), but I believe (1) is 1995, with updates over time.

    Complete code is here, with a summary here.

  7. #32

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    And what is up with Nestor Garcia? He's going to line up with Rod Tam of all people?
    Politicians should use their government vehicles to carpool and transport those odor challenged passengers. It sound so crazy that it just might work.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Oahu, HI
    Posts
    976

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    A great idea..... if you happen to be either elderly or handicapped, which are the type of passengers those front seats are reserved for. At least, that's how we do it in Honolulu. Don't know about how you do it in your own locale.
    I'm sorry, Frankie. I live on Oahu (as you can easily see on each and every one of my postings) but I have not ridden any of the buses as yet. I have ridden the train at Dole Plantation, but stink is not a problem there. I will certainly defer to your greater knowledge in this area. Mea culpa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    there are bus passengers with far more objectionable conditions or habits than what she describes...How about a person who get on the bus, sits down, dozes off..... and then proceeds to urinate and/or take a crap right in their pants? And if a bus passenger is incontinent for any reason and is too stubborn to use a diaper, then I don't see why the rest of the passengers have to suffer with the nauseating smell and for the maintenance crew to have to go through the trouble of cleaning and disinfecting the contaminated area.
    So sorry that someone would do that around you, Sir. In reality, anyone who defecates or urinates in their pants in public (unless you are less than 2 or disabled in some way, but you would have a diaper in place) needs to be taken to a local ED for evaluation, both mental and physical.

    People do stinky things, not always on purpose. I say a Mea Culpa for them, too. Frankie, I sincerely hope you never become incontinent.

  9. #34

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    Quote Originally Posted by cyleet99 View Post
    I live on Oahu (as you can easily see on each and every one of my postings) but I have not ridden any of the buses as yet.
    And right there, in a nutshell, is a primary difference between our viewpoints. One who has never ridden any of the city buses on Oahu vs. one who still occasionally uses the system on an average of once or twice a month.

    Quote Originally Posted by cyleet99 View Post
    So sorry that someone would do that around you, Sir. In reality, anyone who defecates or urinates in their pants in public (unless you are less than 2 or disabled in some way, but you would have a diaper in place) needs to be taken to a local ED for evaluation, both mental and physical.

    People do stinky things, not always on purpose. I say a Mea Culpa for them, too. Frankie, I sincerely hope you never become incontinent.
    Which is precisely why I mentioned "adult diapers." Being incontinent is no excuse for not taking the steps necessary to keep one's medical condition from adversely affecting the people around you, anymore than someone who is ill with the cold to not make an honest effort to cover their nose and to sneeze away from others. I don't think having such basic expectations of common courtesy from others is unreasonable on my part. But then again, the times are a changin'. And not all for the better, sad to say.
    Last edited by Frankie's Market; September 2nd, 2009 at 09:30 PM.

  10. #35

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    I simply cannot believe Lynn, Susie, and possibly salmoned (I couldn't really tell from the tone of the post) are the only ones who've come down opposed to this.
    I think it says a lot about how unpleasant TheBus experience is, or has been, for many people. I “did my time” as a regular commuter on TheBus at least 5 days a week, over a period of three years. Most of my travel was on routes 52, 1, 2, 4, 6 & 8.

    I’ve also used King County Metro Transit extensively during four different visits to the Seattle area. Each time, I’ve been VERY impressed by the quality of the Metro experience, especially when you compare it with TheBus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
    Many of the elements of this proposal came from the King County Metro codes of conduct developed here in Seattle. To the best of my knowledge, no one has been prosecuted for the "offensive odor" aspect of the codes, only for more disruptive behavior.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    … Let me ask this question: How long has the King County (Seattle) transportation code of conduct been in force now? And has it ever faced legal challenge? …
    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
    I don't yet have an answer to (2), but I believe (1) is 1995, with updates over time.
    Complete code is here, with a summary here.
    Looking at the difference between King County’s Metro Transit Code of Conduct
    (thanks, Leo Lakio!), and the closest thing that Oahu Transit Services has to a corresponding webpage,
    Rules, Regulations and Rider Tips, I think it’s evident that there is a BIG difference in the two counties’ approaches to transit system administration.

    To quote the opening paragraphs of King County’s Metro Transit Code of Conduct:

    To help ensure the safety, security, comfort and convenience of all those who use our services, the King County Council passed an ordinance to regulate conduct on Metro Transit property. In simple terms, it's best described as the way to "ride right". When you ride right, you treat others as you would like to be treated. And you show respect for your fellow passengers and the transit vehicles and facilities you use.

    Everyone benefits when you ride right. Transit passengers enjoy a safe, secure, comfortable and inviting atmosphere, and the overall efficiency of the transportation system improves.
    Clear, concise, and chock full of common sense; those two paragraphs set the tone and expectations for passenger conduct on Metro Transit property. It’s the kind of statement that Oahu Transit Services really should make.


    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    I completely disagree about my right to stinking ending at YOUR nose. While I understand that being on a bus is different from being at the park, where the offended may move elsewhere if the offensive wanders too near, you cannot make it illegal to stink unless you are somehow going to define that term.
    From the Metro Transit Code of Conduct:

    Criminal Penalties
    Misdemeanors can result in a citation and fine up to $1,000, and/or arrest and imprisonment in the county jail for not more than ninety (90) days.
    … 17. Bringing onto transit property odors which unreasonably disturb others or interfere with their use of the transit system, whether such odors arise from one's person, clothes, articles, accompanying animal or any other source.
    So, Scrivener... on the King County Metro System, at least, your right to stink apparently DOES have limits that end at other peoples' noses.

    Since King County's Transit Code of Conduct has been in effect since roughly 1995, it would seem that undesirable behaviors such as *odor* can be sufficiently defined in such a way as to be upheld and enforced...
    To be, or musubi... What was da question?

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Kapalama Heights.
    Posts
    5,198

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    Quote Originally Posted by musubi View Post
    I think it says a lot about how unpleasant TheBus experience is, or has been, for many people. I “did my time” as a regular commuter on TheBus at least 5 days a week, over a period of three years. Most of my travel was on routes 52, 1, 2, 4, 6 & 8.
    I've done it too, in a couple of long stretches in the past thirteen years. Believe me: I can relate to the complaints and to the horror stories.

    I’ve also used King County Metro Transit extensively during four different visits to the Seattle area. Each time, I’ve been VERY impressed by the quality of the Metro experience, especially when you compare it with TheBus.
    I've used it too (though obviously not as a regular commuter). The entire city of Seattle is a model of good citizenship. The streets and sidewalks are clean, people are nice, and it just feels good to be there. However, should good citizenship be required by law? I say no.

    So, Scrivener... on the King County Metro System, at least, your right to stink apparently DOES have limits that end at other peoples' noses.
    I have no doubt that what is proposed would make for a nicer experience for just about everybody, especially for the people who bear most of the burden of paying for the transit. I am just convinced, though, that the solution here is not to ban smelly people from buses but instead to address the things that cause the behaviors. What if, instead, we became a city where homelessness, while not unheard of, was a rarity? Or if, instead, people with mental and physical illnesses received the care they needed so that horrible mishaps such as have been described in this thread almost never ever happened?

    Since King County's Transit Code of Conduct has been in effect since roughly 1995, it would seem that undesirable behaviors such as *odor* can be sufficiently defined in such a way as to be upheld and enforced...
    I know I said this would be impossible to define or enforce, but that's only my secondary reason for disliking this thing.

    Anapuni808's point about cell phones is a good example. I would add to it noisy teenagers (and I, a high school teacher, normally love noisy teenagers). Everyone's experience would be better if noisy teens and cell phone conversations were made illegal. But we're talking here about civility, and I while I do my best to be civil and to treat people well, I don't think I want to live in a society where civility is MANDATED, even if the result is desirable.
    But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
    GrouchyTeacher.com

  12. #37

    Default Cataluna's solution...

    Lee had both a funny and serious take on the matter - www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20090903/COLUMNISTS02/909030331/0/COLUMNISTS02/Stinky-Tam-bill-could-use-a-beagle

    But the most serious issue not being addressed in all this hauna biz is the eating of arare on the bus. Talk about stink?!
    Last edited by Ron Whitfield; September 3rd, 2009 at 07:58 AM.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Oahu, HI
    Posts
    976

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    hehehehe

    Thanks, Ron. Lee's article gave me a good giggle to start the day. Personally I love beagles and would definitely defer to their better judgement.

    BTW..(chomp chomp) what's wrong with eating arare?? (chomp chomp) Love the stuff! And the crunch (chomp) would drown out the cellphone talkers!

  14. #39

    Default Hey, no problem...

    ...as you'd be back in the hauna car!

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Centered - sides are for suckers
    Posts
    1,527

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    I simply cannot believe Lynn, Susie, and possibly salmoned (I couldn't really tell from the tone of the post) are the only ones who've come down opposed to this.
    Yes, one can never tell about THIS one, heh, heh, heh.

    Offensive odor is not only a matter of opinion, it can also be an expression of opinion. As long as it doesn't endanger others, it's a 'free speech' (or free stench) issue. When others are endangered, it morphs into an issue of assault/battery/reckless endangerment. No new regulations are required, unless enforcement of current regulation with regard to this issue has met with judicial censure.

    Honey, don't you just love my new chloroform perfume? It just knocks everyone out with a hint of prussic acid!
    Last edited by salmoned; September 3rd, 2009 at 09:28 AM.
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    the hills of Kalihi
    Posts
    946

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    I love the Pritchett cartoon in the Weekly!

    Hey, if I don't like a lady's perfume (which often happens), can I complain to the bus driver and get her kicked off the bus?

  17. #42

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    This proposal belongs in the "HALL OF SHAME" along with the proposed legislation about four decades ago to ban Christmas as a state holiday!

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Kapalama Heights.
    Posts
    5,198

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    I would actually be okay with doing away with Christmas as a state holiday.
    But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
    GrouchyTeacher.com

  19. #44

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert View Post
    Hey, if I don't like a lady's perfume (which often happens), can I complain to the bus driver and get her kicked off the bus?
    The Bus should be scented with stripper's perfume. So, if his partner ask if he's been to Rock-Za. No, he was just riding the Bus.

  20. #45

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    I've used it too (though obviously not as a regular commuter). The entire city of Seattle is a model of good citizenship. The streets and sidewalks are clean, people are nice, and it just feels good to be there. However, should good citizenship be required by law? I say no.


    I have no doubt that what is proposed would make for a nicer experience for just about everybody, especially for the people who bear most of the burden of paying for the transit. I am just convinced, though, that the solution here is not to ban smelly people from buses but instead to address the things that cause the behaviors. What if, instead, we became a city where homelessness, while not unheard of, was a rarity? Or if, instead, people with mental and physical illnesses received the care they needed so that horrible mishaps such as have been described in this thread almost never ever happened?.
    A city where homelessness is rare? Where the physically/mentally ill were not neglected? Those are very noble goals and I don't think any reasonable person would object to any effort to reduce these problems.

    And yet.... to positively address these problems, does it not take care and concern on our part? In order to fund programs that provide assistance to the disadvantaged, does it not take a willingness on our part as taxpayers to allow our hard-earned money to be used towards these kinds of projects that may not directly benefit us?

    Fighting homelessness and caring for the less fortunate of society involves sacrifice on everyone else's part. In other words, people need to look beyond their own self-interest. But realistically Scriv, how can you expect society as a whole to make these kinds of tremendous sacrifices to solve the big problems when you think it is too much to expect people to make the small, everyday sacrifices that don't even cost a cent? Think about it. If younger and able bus passengers aren't impressed with the importance of respecting the reserved seating for the elderly, then do you expect those same folks to be willing to make the financial sacrifices to support programs that assist old people? Hmmmm.

    Quote Originally Posted by salmoned View Post
    Offensive odor is not only a matter of opinion, it can also be an expression of opinion. As long as it doesn't endanger others, it's a 'free speech' (or free stench) issue. When others are endangered, it morphs into an issue of assault/battery/reckless endangerment.
    Amen for recognizing that taking an absolute position on this issue is neither sensible nor reasonable.

  21. #46

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    The bill will be recinded and may be rewritten for later consideration.

  22. #47

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    Well, so much for the wisdom of ignoring this serious problem. Now you have stinky people taking over bus stops, forcing hundreds of taxpaying bus passengers to be inconvenienced with having to use alternative stops.

    KITV

    A city bus stop has been temporarily moved so bus drivers and riders can get away from the smell of a homeless woman who's living at a busy Honolulu bus shelter. That’s the first time the city has relocated a bus stop because of a homeless person, according to City Transportation Director Wayne Yoshioka.

    The concrete bus shelter on Kapiolani Boulevard, right across from the Nordstrom store at Ala Moana, has been home to an elderly homeless woman for at least the last year.

    “We were getting quite a few complaints from bus riders about her smell,” Yoshioka said. “We are trying to be as sensitive as possible,” he added, noting that it’s not illegal for the homeless to stay at bus shelters.
    This is absolutely ridiculous, relocating a bus stop to allow a homeless woman to take over a bus shelter. This young woman hit it dead on:

    "While the smell sometimes is a bit much, I don't understand why someone doesn't help her," said Elena Renehan, who's a student at nearby Heald College. She doesn't think moving the bus stop is a good idea.

    "Who's to say that the next stop that they have there's not going to be another person? What are they going to do? Move the bus stop a million times? Silly," Renehan said.
    Ms. Renehan is going to a business school? What a shame. I think we need more people like her in public service. Goodness knows she has more common sense than all these politicians, lawyers, and bureaucrats who are sorely out of touch with reality.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Centered - sides are for suckers
    Posts
    1,527

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    Business school is not good preparation for public service?

    On the other hand, anyone can say what should be done, who's doing it? [Rain will wash away the stain from a bullet in the brain down into the drain we must not refrain or ever complain or ascertain our right to maintain our right to maintain our right to maintain all that is plain, still it's a shame ...]
    Last edited by salmoned; July 14th, 2011 at 01:27 PM.
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    No. California
    Posts
    2,556

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    I wonder if its the same woman who was camped out at the bus stop on Kaheka Street, outside Don Quiote? that bus stop was also moved and seats changed out, because of her (with dead cats apparently in her wagon) and another homeless man who died at the bus stop. I am no longer able to shop there because the stop is now too far from the store entrance for me.

    Maybe they need to try that bill again because this enabling of homeless people really is getting ridiculous.
    "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
    – Sydney J. Harris

  25. #50

    Default Re: Stinky The Bus

    Quote Originally Posted by salmoned View Post
    Business school is not good preparation for public service?
    In an idealistic world, it should be. But what's the reality? Students who enroll in a vocational business school want to be job-ready for their chosen profession in 12-24 months. Typically, they're not interested in dabbling in politics....at least, not right away. Of course, there's always rare exceptions. But over the long haul, Heald will never produce as many city/state lawmakers as UH's Richardson School of Law.

    That's why I said it was a shame. Hawaii has always had too many politicians who happen to be lawyers. We sorely need more lawmakers to come from other backgrounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by salmoned View Post
    On the other hand, anyone can say what should be done, who's doing it?
    It all starts with having the right idea. A mindless bureaucrat like Wayne Yoshioka only spouts excuses to the press, instead of proposing real solutions that can be acted upon by the City Council.

    How about this proposal as a start? Allow a person to linger at a bus stop for no more than 2 hours. After that, give HPD the power to move that person along for loitering.

    Or noooooo. Does it make more sense to allow a non-taxpaying bum and his/her worldly possessions (i.e. junk) to occupy a bus shelter, forcing the city to pay for another bus stop,.... with no assurance that the same cycle won't be repeated again if another homeless person commandeers the new bus stop?
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •