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  • #31
    Re: Stinky The Bus

    Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    Let me ask this question: How long has the King County (Seattle) transportation code of conduct been in force now? And has it ever faced legal challenge? If the answers to those questions are 1) at least several years and 2) never, then maybe Garcia should have done more research before caving in like a house of playing cards on this legislation.
    I don't yet have an answer to (2), but I believe (1) is 1995, with updates over time.

    Complete code is here, with a summary here.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Stinky The Bus

      Originally posted by scrivener View Post
      And what is up with Nestor Garcia? He's going to line up with Rod Tam of all people?
      Politicians should use their government vehicles to carpool and transport those odor challenged passengers. It sound so crazy that it just might work.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Stinky The Bus

        Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
        A great idea..... if you happen to be either elderly or handicapped, which are the type of passengers those front seats are reserved for. At least, that's how we do it in Honolulu. Don't know about how you do it in your own locale.
        I'm sorry, Frankie. I live on Oahu (as you can easily see on each and every one of my postings) but I have not ridden any of the buses as yet. I have ridden the train at Dole Plantation, but stink is not a problem there. I will certainly defer to your greater knowledge in this area. Mea culpa.

        Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
        there are bus passengers with far more objectionable conditions or habits than what she describes...How about a person who get on the bus, sits down, dozes off..... and then proceeds to urinate and/or take a crap right in their pants? And if a bus passenger is incontinent for any reason and is too stubborn to use a diaper, then I don't see why the rest of the passengers have to suffer with the nauseating smell and for the maintenance crew to have to go through the trouble of cleaning and disinfecting the contaminated area.
        So sorry that someone would do that around you, Sir. In reality, anyone who defecates or urinates in their pants in public (unless you are less than 2 or disabled in some way, but you would have a diaper in place) needs to be taken to a local ED for evaluation, both mental and physical.

        People do stinky things, not always on purpose. I say a Mea Culpa for them, too. Frankie, I sincerely hope you never become incontinent.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Stinky The Bus

          Originally posted by cyleet99 View Post
          I live on Oahu (as you can easily see on each and every one of my postings) but I have not ridden any of the buses as yet.
          And right there, in a nutshell, is a primary difference between our viewpoints. One who has never ridden any of the city buses on Oahu vs. one who still occasionally uses the system on an average of once or twice a month.

          Originally posted by cyleet99 View Post
          So sorry that someone would do that around you, Sir. In reality, anyone who defecates or urinates in their pants in public (unless you are less than 2 or disabled in some way, but you would have a diaper in place) needs to be taken to a local ED for evaluation, both mental and physical.

          People do stinky things, not always on purpose. I say a Mea Culpa for them, too. Frankie, I sincerely hope you never become incontinent.
          Which is precisely why I mentioned "adult diapers." Being incontinent is no excuse for not taking the steps necessary to keep one's medical condition from adversely affecting the people around you, anymore than someone who is ill with the cold to not make an honest effort to cover their nose and to sneeze away from others. I don't think having such basic expectations of common courtesy from others is unreasonable on my part. But then again, the times are a changin'. And not all for the better, sad to say.
          Last edited by Frankie's Market; September 2, 2009, 09:30 PM.
          This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Stinky The Bus

            Originally posted by scrivener View Post
            I simply cannot believe Lynn, Susie, and possibly salmoned (I couldn't really tell from the tone of the post) are the only ones who've come down opposed to this.
            I think it says a lot about how unpleasant TheBus experience is, or has been, for many people. I “did my time” as a regular commuter on TheBus at least 5 days a week, over a period of three years. Most of my travel was on routes 52, 1, 2, 4, 6 & 8.

            I’ve also used King County Metro Transit extensively during four different visits to the Seattle area. Each time, I’ve been VERY impressed by the quality of the Metro experience, especially when you compare it with TheBus.

            Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
            Many of the elements of this proposal came from the King County Metro codes of conduct developed here in Seattle. To the best of my knowledge, no one has been prosecuted for the "offensive odor" aspect of the codes, only for more disruptive behavior.
            Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
            … Let me ask this question: How long has the King County (Seattle) transportation code of conduct been in force now? And has it ever faced legal challenge? …
            Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
            I don't yet have an answer to (2), but I believe (1) is 1995, with updates over time.
            Complete code is here, with a summary here.
            Looking at the difference between King County’s Metro Transit Code of Conduct
            (thanks, Leo Lakio!), and the closest thing that Oahu Transit Services has to a corresponding webpage,
            Rules, Regulations and Rider Tips, I think it’s evident that there is a BIG difference in the two counties’ approaches to transit system administration.

            To quote the opening paragraphs of King County’s Metro Transit Code of Conduct:

            To help ensure the safety, security, comfort and convenience of all those who use our services, the King County Council passed an ordinance to regulate conduct on Metro Transit property. In simple terms, it's best described as the way to "ride right". When you ride right, you treat others as you would like to be treated. And you show respect for your fellow passengers and the transit vehicles and facilities you use.

            Everyone benefits when you ride right. Transit passengers enjoy a safe, secure, comfortable and inviting atmosphere, and the overall efficiency of the transportation system improves.
            Clear, concise, and chock full of common sense; those two paragraphs set the tone and expectations for passenger conduct on Metro Transit property. It’s the kind of statement that Oahu Transit Services really should make.


            Originally posted by scrivener View Post
            I completely disagree about my right to stinking ending at YOUR nose. While I understand that being on a bus is different from being at the park, where the offended may move elsewhere if the offensive wanders too near, you cannot make it illegal to stink unless you are somehow going to define that term.
            From the Metro Transit Code of Conduct:

            Criminal Penalties
            Misdemeanors can result in a citation and fine up to $1,000, and/or arrest and imprisonment in the county jail for not more than ninety (90) days.
            … 17. Bringing onto transit property odors which unreasonably disturb others or interfere with their use of the transit system, whether such odors arise from one's person, clothes, articles, accompanying animal or any other source.
            So, Scrivener... on the King County Metro System, at least, your right to stink apparently DOES have limits that end at other peoples' noses.

            Since King County's Transit Code of Conduct has been in effect since roughly 1995, it would seem that undesirable behaviors such as *odor* can be sufficiently defined in such a way as to be upheld and enforced...
            To be, or musubi... What was da question?

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Stinky The Bus

              Originally posted by musubi View Post
              I think it says a lot about how unpleasant TheBus experience is, or has been, for many people. I “did my time” as a regular commuter on TheBus at least 5 days a week, over a period of three years. Most of my travel was on routes 52, 1, 2, 4, 6 & 8.
              I've done it too, in a couple of long stretches in the past thirteen years. Believe me: I can relate to the complaints and to the horror stories.

              I’ve also used King County Metro Transit extensively during four different visits to the Seattle area. Each time, I’ve been VERY impressed by the quality of the Metro experience, especially when you compare it with TheBus.
              I've used it too (though obviously not as a regular commuter). The entire city of Seattle is a model of good citizenship. The streets and sidewalks are clean, people are nice, and it just feels good to be there. However, should good citizenship be required by law? I say no.

              So, Scrivener... on the King County Metro System, at least, your right to stink apparently DOES have limits that end at other peoples' noses.
              I have no doubt that what is proposed would make for a nicer experience for just about everybody, especially for the people who bear most of the burden of paying for the transit. I am just convinced, though, that the solution here is not to ban smelly people from buses but instead to address the things that cause the behaviors. What if, instead, we became a city where homelessness, while not unheard of, was a rarity? Or if, instead, people with mental and physical illnesses received the care they needed so that horrible mishaps such as have been described in this thread almost never ever happened?

              Since King County's Transit Code of Conduct has been in effect since roughly 1995, it would seem that undesirable behaviors such as *odor* can be sufficiently defined in such a way as to be upheld and enforced...
              I know I said this would be impossible to define or enforce, but that's only my secondary reason for disliking this thing.

              Anapuni808's point about cell phones is a good example. I would add to it noisy teenagers (and I, a high school teacher, normally love noisy teenagers). Everyone's experience would be better if noisy teens and cell phone conversations were made illegal. But we're talking here about civility, and I while I do my best to be civil and to treat people well, I don't think I want to live in a society where civility is MANDATED, even if the result is desirable.
              But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
              GrouchyTeacher.com

              Comment


              • #37
                Cataluna's solution...

                Lee had both a funny and serious take on the matter - www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20090903/COLUMNISTS02/909030331/0/COLUMNISTS02/Stinky-Tam-bill-could-use-a-beagle

                But the most serious issue not being addressed in all this hauna biz is the eating of arare on the bus. Talk about stink?!
                Last edited by Ron Whitfield; September 3, 2009, 07:58 AM.
                https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Stinky The Bus

                  hehehehe

                  Thanks, Ron. Lee's article gave me a good giggle to start the day. Personally I love beagles and would definitely defer to their better judgement.

                  BTW..(chomp chomp) what's wrong with eating arare?? (chomp chomp) Love the stuff! And the crunch (chomp) would drown out the cellphone talkers!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Hey, no problem...

                    ...as you'd be back in the hauna car!
                    https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Stinky The Bus

                      Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                      I simply cannot believe Lynn, Susie, and possibly salmoned (I couldn't really tell from the tone of the post) are the only ones who've come down opposed to this.
                      Yes, one can never tell about THIS one, heh, heh, heh.

                      Offensive odor is not only a matter of opinion, it can also be an expression of opinion. As long as it doesn't endanger others, it's a 'free speech' (or free stench) issue. When others are endangered, it morphs into an issue of assault/battery/reckless endangerment. No new regulations are required, unless enforcement of current regulation with regard to this issue has met with judicial censure.

                      Honey, don't you just love my new chloroform perfume? It just knocks everyone out with a hint of prussic acid!
                      Last edited by salmoned; September 3, 2009, 09:28 AM.
                      May I always be found beneath your contempt.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Stinky The Bus

                        I love the Pritchett cartoon in the Weekly!

                        Hey, if I don't like a lady's perfume (which often happens), can I complain to the bus driver and get her kicked off the bus?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Stinky The Bus

                          This proposal belongs in the "HALL OF SHAME" along with the proposed legislation about four decades ago to ban Christmas as a state holiday!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Stinky The Bus

                            I would actually be okay with doing away with Christmas as a state holiday.
                            But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
                            GrouchyTeacher.com

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Stinky The Bus

                              Originally posted by Albert View Post
                              Hey, if I don't like a lady's perfume (which often happens), can I complain to the bus driver and get her kicked off the bus?
                              The Bus should be scented with stripper's perfume. So, if his partner ask if he's been to Rock-Za. No, he was just riding the Bus.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Stinky The Bus

                                Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                                I've used it too (though obviously not as a regular commuter). The entire city of Seattle is a model of good citizenship. The streets and sidewalks are clean, people are nice, and it just feels good to be there. However, should good citizenship be required by law? I say no.


                                I have no doubt that what is proposed would make for a nicer experience for just about everybody, especially for the people who bear most of the burden of paying for the transit. I am just convinced, though, that the solution here is not to ban smelly people from buses but instead to address the things that cause the behaviors. What if, instead, we became a city where homelessness, while not unheard of, was a rarity? Or if, instead, people with mental and physical illnesses received the care they needed so that horrible mishaps such as have been described in this thread almost never ever happened?.
                                A city where homelessness is rare? Where the physically/mentally ill were not neglected? Those are very noble goals and I don't think any reasonable person would object to any effort to reduce these problems.

                                And yet.... to positively address these problems, does it not take care and concern on our part? In order to fund programs that provide assistance to the disadvantaged, does it not take a willingness on our part as taxpayers to allow our hard-earned money to be used towards these kinds of projects that may not directly benefit us?

                                Fighting homelessness and caring for the less fortunate of society involves sacrifice on everyone else's part. In other words, people need to look beyond their own self-interest. But realistically Scriv, how can you expect society as a whole to make these kinds of tremendous sacrifices to solve the big problems when you think it is too much to expect people to make the small, everyday sacrifices that don't even cost a cent? Think about it. If younger and able bus passengers aren't impressed with the importance of respecting the reserved seating for the elderly, then do you expect those same folks to be willing to make the financial sacrifices to support programs that assist old people? Hmmmm.

                                Originally posted by salmoned View Post
                                Offensive odor is not only a matter of opinion, it can also be an expression of opinion. As long as it doesn't endanger others, it's a 'free speech' (or free stench) issue. When others are endangered, it morphs into an issue of assault/battery/reckless endangerment.
                                Amen for recognizing that taking an absolute position on this issue is neither sensible nor reasonable.
                                This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                                Comment

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