Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

It's called the confederate flag in the south!

And of course, how people respond to that flag will differ in South Carolina from reactions in North Dakota, Oregon, or Vermont.

[Keanu]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

So, it is guilt by association now????

Let's switch gears a bit, would it be OK to have an "Irish Power" sticker in your window?

We are talking about Hawai'i. I'm sure alot of people here either don't know or could not care less about the IRA so your analogy is rather impertinent as it applies to Hawai'i.

[Bard]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

I think it's sad that white people of various ancestry have lost the desire and the ability to be proud of their heritage in a non-destructive manner (the Irish Festival type, not the hoods and burning crosses type ). I think part of the problem is that there kinda is a homogenized "white people" culture now which is shared among most of western Europe, the US, etc. So in that sense, yeah, it's somewhat appropriate to refer to all white people with one ethnic description.

It also brings back to mind something Pua'i Mana'o said earlier, about piko. It's harsh to lose your heritage because it helps to find one's way in the world to know where one came from (so to speak.. obviously I wasn't there with my ancestors more than a couple of generations back). A lot of white people in America have done exactly that though. Their "ancestry" goes back about 5 generations, to when whoever it was came here.

I just wanna say too that that discussion earlier inspired me to go do some genealogy, and I found some really interesting things. Scottish and Irish people for example have a lot in common with Hawaiians as far as having a foreign power come in and take over their islands, destroy their culture, and so on.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

I think it's sad that white people of various ancestry have lost the desire and the ability to be proud of their heritage in a non-destructive manner (the Irish Festival type, not the hoods and burning crosses type ). I think part of the problem is that there kinda is a homogenized "white people" culture now which is shared among most of western Europe, the US, etc. So in that sense, yeah, it's somewhat appropriate to refer to all white people with one ethnic description.

I think a large part of that comes again from the "domination" aspect I spoke of earlier. European Caucasians were such a dominating colonization force throughout the world, and not that long ago, that the indigenous peoples of many of those lands didn't really care whether it was the British, the Dutch, the Spanish, the French, the Portuguese or the Belgians who they needed to overthrow and get out of their home.

All us haoles look alike, you know --- especially if we are an ugly and unwelcome invader, come to take the riches of someone else's land.

Except the Portuguese. Why is it that Potagees are distinct from other haole groups in Hawai`i? Is it because many of the supervisors of plantation crews (would it be correct to say luna in this context?) were Portuguese?

[sinjin]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

Why is it some people act as though they've been out of town for the last 5 centuries? Whitey doesn't need to be reminded that he's powerful.

[MadAzza]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

Except the Portuguese. Why is it that Potagees are distinct from other haole groups in Hawai`i?

Because racism is inherently illogical.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

nah, people can logically justify their racist attitudes.

Racism is inherently visceral. Its the way it feels in the pit of one's stomach that propels the hate. Some people get a "rational" or "moral" high from it.

[nachodaddy]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

We are talking about Hawai'i. I'm sure alot of people here either don't know or could not care less about the IRA so your analogy is rather impertinent as it applies to Hawai'i.

I WAS talking about Hawaii. Try not to connect dots that are not there.

The question is still on the floor.

[Bard]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

Why is it some people act as though they've been out of town for the last 5 centuries? Whitey doesn't need to be reminded that he's powerful.

This bothers me and I had to think for a while why. It goes something like this:

I guess the idea is, people feel a need to have "____ Power!" stickers because they feel like they need to remind themselves that they are real human beings on par with anyone else. "Girl Power!" -- women have just as much right to things as men. "Irish Power!" -- Irish people are just as worthy as any other human beings (early in the US, people used to hang out "Irish Not Wanted" signs on their businesses.. whee). Whatever. It's a reminder that you're more than the trash that some other people try to make you feel like.

How about hearing this all growing up: "hey ya little sh**, your kind, and thus you, are responsible for most of the ills of the modern world. go f yourself." So yes, there's a reason for it, for some.

I know not all white people care... when I think of a lot of people I know back in the south... you have a point. But that's just it: painting all of us with that broad brush is, like Spock said , illogical.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

Whitey doesn't need to be reminded that he's powerful.

The ones who desire that kind of reminder, those who would most support "White Power" symbols, are often those who preferred the days when "whitey" was dominant everywhere, and are uncomfortable (to say the least) with seeing other racial groups as equals. In many cases, they may have had experiences that led them to feel inferior - and the easiest way to feel superior is to try to make someone else out to be the inferior party. Rather than work to build yourself up, just push someone else down below your point on the scale.

Having said that, I need to be very clear: I am in no way suggesting that nachodaddy fits this profile; I do not believe that is relevant to the point he is trying to make, and I hope everyone understands that.

[WindwardOahuRN]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

early in the US, people used to hang out "Irish Not Wanted" signs on their businesses.. whee

Very common in newspaper ads. Just the letters were used---"NINA"---No Irish Need Apply.

The story was told to me by my grandmother.

[sinjin]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

This bothers me and I had to think for a while why. It goes something like this:

I guess the idea is, people feel a need to have "____ Power!" stickers because they feel like they need to remind themselves that they are real human beings on par with anyone else. "Girl Power!" -- women have just as much right to things as men. "Irish Power!" -- Irish people are just as worthy as any other human beings (early in the US, people used to hang out "Irish Not Wanted" signs on their businesses.. whee). Whatever. It's a reminder that you're more than the trash that some other people try to make you feel like.

That's about the size of it.

How about hearing this all growing up: "hey ya little sh**, your kind, and thus you, are responsible for most of the ills of the modern world. go f yourself." So yes, there's a reason for it, for some.

Never said it was fair but something to think about before moving your haole keikis to Hawaii.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

Except the Portuguese. Why is it that Potagees are distinct from other haole groups in Hawai`i? Is it because many of the supervisors of plantation crews (would it be correct to say luna in this context?) were Portuguese?

You got it.

Back then, the planters didn't think of the Portuguese as "white people". They were European and thus a cut above the Orientals, but not really "white" the way Anglo-Saxons were. But they were still imported labor, usually uneducated and rural, as opposed to, say, the better-considered Scottish sugar mill engineers.

Remember that this was around the same time in the 19th century when the American East Coast was starting to see waves of immigrants from Central and Southern Europe -- Italians, Polish, etc. -- and those immigrants weren't really considered "white" either. There was an interesting Talk of the Nation program on NPR last summer about that.

[Bard]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

Never said it was fair but something to think about before moving your haole keikis to Hawaii.

Point.

Sorry, didn't mean to get worked up about that. I just meant to say that you don't have to be a minority to feel the burn. That racism exists is a burden to everyone who doesn't want it, white people not being exempt as a whole.

If people thought more about their ancestry (and that of others), they might realize that racism is us vs us vs us vs... not us vs them.

[blueyecicle]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

And of course, how people respond to that flag will differ in South Carolina from reactions in North Dakota, Oregon, or Vermont.

Yeah, here it's just another curtain!