Cash for Clunkers

[craigwatanabe]

I read this article and was disgusted.

Now as a former car salesman I would have been hardpressed to turn down a customer wanting to upgrade his older gas guzzler truck for a newer gas guzzling truck, however there should have been greater restrictions on this program. The word, "Abuse" is written all over this program and the loopholes were probably big enough to...well drive a truck thru!

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Cash for Clunkers

I read this article and was disgusted.

I read the same article.... and I had the opposite reaction. I'm glad that the feds are taking a closer look at all the rebates that were given out and scrutinizing those transactions that appear to be ineligible. I don't know about you, but I would rather that investigators be aware of these fraudulent deals and to take action on the matter rather than everyone being blissfully ignorant and for the fraudsters to get away scot-free.

According to the AP article, it says;

In scores of deals, the government reported spending a total of $562,500 in rebates for new cars and trucks that got worse or the same mileage as the trade-ins — in apparent violation of the program's requirements.

When you consider that the govt. doled out $2.877 billion in rebates in the Cash for Clunkers program, the questionable transactions figure out to slightly less than 0.02% of the total rebate given out. So relatively speaking, that is a very small amount. Heck, more fraud happens in Medicare.

Now as a former car salesman I would have been hardpressed to turn down a customer wanting to upgrade his older gas guzzler truck for a newer gas guzzling truck, however there should have been greater restrictions on this program.

As the same article goes on to say;

The government said it is investigating those reports and said in some cases they were probably entered incorrectly by dealers or based on outdated fuel economy figures.

So however way you close the deal, you had better make sure that the information you plug into the rebate application is accurate and conforms to all of the requirements. Failure to do so will make that eager-beaver car salesman no better than an unscrupulous mortgage broker who illegally claims tax credits and govt. rebates that he and his clients are not entitled to. Just be prepared to face the music when the fraud is uncovered.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Cash for Clunkers

I am disgusted that deals like that went thru, not that the Feds are looking into it. I'm glad the Feds are looking into these transactions, please read why I was disgusted. What I am saying is that when the program began restrictions were fairly limited enough for deals such as those mentioned were able to get thru.

The article goes on to say:

"The new data, obtained by the AP under the Freedom of Information Act, include details of 677,081 clunker trade-ins processed by the government through Oct. 16. More than 95,000 of the new vehicles purchased under the program — or about one in seven — got less than 20 mpg, according to the data."

Anyway the point is that this program had it's glitches and it's intentions relied on the Honor System that dealerships would use it wisely. Unfortunately during a recorded time period, many errors were committed and now the Feds have to do cleanup and recover those misguided rebates.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Cash for Clunkers

Anyway the point is that this program had it's glitches and it's intentions relied on the Honor System that dealerships would use it wisely. Unfortunately during a recorded time period, many errors were committed and now the Feds have to do cleanup and recover those misguided rebates.

A fair enough point. But then again, name me any govt.-funded program dispensing assistance, rebates, credits, or loans that has been 100% totally free from some form of waste, fraud, and abuse from day 1. Scams involving student loans, first-time homebuyer tax credits, welfare assistance, etc. etc. etc. These all go back decades before Cash for Clunkers. And for a lot, LOT more money. Scams for Medicare alone are estimated at $60 billion a year, according to this 60 Minutes report.

The $60 billion in Medicare fraud not only dwarfs the half-million in questionable payouts made in the Cash for Clunkers program, but the percentages involved are just as telling. Medicare paid out $430 billion in benefits last year, which means that fraudulent transactions made up nearly 14% of the total payouts, as compared to 0.02% of the Cash for Clunkers money being used on potentially ineligible deals. Now don't get me wrong. I hope that each and every person who pulled a fast one with the Cash for Clunkers deal are caught and have to pay back whatever they weren't entitled to. But keeping things in perspective, taxpayers have been hoodwinked for a heckuva lot more money on other programs. As 60 Minutes pointed out, many individual scam artists have stolen multiple times more money than the entire half-million in questionable/illegal Cash for Clunkers refunds.

You know as well as I do. Anytime the govt. offers a subsidy, there will always be people who will look carefully at the terms and exploit any loophole by which they can personally take advantage of. Some of them pass legal (if not ethical) muster, and changes have to be made to close the loopholes. And there are other schemes which are flat-out illegal, and which you hope that the scammers are investigated and prosecuted. Cash for Clunkers was not the first govt. program to be exploited by scammers, and it won't be the last. Neither is the United States alone in having to deal with fraud and waste when it comes to govt. assistance. Anyone who thinks otherwise are just fooling themselves.

[tutusue]

Re: Cash for Clunkers

Why wasn't the C4C program limited to purchasing American made cars? Is it because we don't have/make enough non-gas-guzzlers to warrant that limitation? I heard that Toyota and Honda reaped the majority of the benefits. That doesn't seem right when our auto industry is in the tank. Maybe I missed a previous explanation or just plain, ol' forgot it!

[cynsaligia]

Re: Cash for Clunkers

Why wasn't the C4C program limited to purchasing American made cars? Is it because we don't have/make enough non-gas-guzzlers to warrant that limitation? I heard that Toyota and Honda reaped the majority of the benefits. That doesn't seem right when our auto industry is in the tank. Maybe I missed a previous explanation or just plain, ol' forgot it!

a program like that would be seen as yet another action by the american people to bail out the american car industry, which a good number of folk would have been against. besides, americans are all about choice.*





*unless you talk about things like women's reproductive rights, of course.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Cash for Clunkers

a program like that would be seen as yet another action by the american people to bail out the american car industry, which a good number of folk would have been against. besides, Americans are all about choice.*


*unless you talk about things like women's reproductive rights, of course.

Also, there are quite a few foreign cars sold here in the USA by American people who want to keep working.

Plus some Japanese cars such as the Toyota Camry, Corolla and Tacoma are built right here in the States in American plants using Americans who want to keep working.

Remember when Obama touted "Buy American" and the message he sent overseas? It wasn't well respected by importers of American products.

[oceanpacific]

Re: Cash for Clunkers

Why wasn't the C4C program limited to purchasing American made cars? Is it because we don't have/make enough non-gas-guzzlers to warrant that limitation? I heard that Toyota and Honda reaped the majority of the benefits. That doesn't seem right when our auto industry is in the tank. Maybe I missed a previous explanation or just plain, ol' forgot it!

Many of the Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans, and Mazdas sold in the USA are built in American factories by American workers.

I recently rented cars on my inter-island trips. These cars, a PT Cruiser (Chrysler) and Chevy Cobalt (GM) had idiocyncrasies and design flaws which indicated that these manufacturers have not learned from their Japanese counterparts how to build first-rate vehicles. I also had the occasion to drive the new Ford Taurus, much improved from its previous incarnations. Even Ford, which didn't get a government bail-out, still has some of these design flaws. No matter how much ex-NFL star Howie Long extols the "superior" MPG advantages Chevrolet has over Toyota and Honda, mileage is only one aspect in comparing cars. The Chevys fall short in a lot of other areas.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Cash for Clunkers

Many of the Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans, and Mazdas sold in the USA are built in American factories by American workers.

I recently rented cars on my inter-island trips. These cars, a PT Cruiser (Chrysler) and Chevy Cobalt (GM) had idiocyncrasies and design flaws which indicated that these manufacturers have not learned from their Japanese counterparts how to build first-rate vehicles. I also had the occasion to drive the new Ford Taurus, much improved from its previous incarnations. Even Ford, which didn't get a government bail-out, still has some of these design flaws. No matter how much ex-NFL star Howie Long extols the "superior" MPG advantages Chevrolet has over Toyota and Honda, mileage is only one aspect in comparing cars. The Chevys fall short in a lot of other areas.

I'm going deaf!!!!

[matapule]

Re: Cash for Clunkers

I'm going deaf!!!!

Yeah, but it sure helps us people who are going blind!

[cynsaligia]

Re: Cash for Clunkers

chevy's ad agency, campbell-ewald must have to be deaf, blind and stupid not to realize they blundered when making fun of the fact that honda makes lawnmowers. not only does honda make lawnmowers, but they make generators, boats, motorcycles and robots. not only that, but honda's been an innovator in practically everything it does. can chevy say that? no. but we can say: epic fail.

at least one blogger questioned the snarkiness of having long make fun of an overweight and unattractive man lumbering clumsily or questioning another man's masculinity...while pointing out features of other car companies' trucks that chevy doesn't have.

see five of the howie long/chevy ads here.

what, exactly, is that demonic little redheaded girl calling a "big girl seat??!!"

ford appreciates howie's pointing out the "man step" (read the comments; one poster imagines a very effective rebuttal advert featuring mike rowe and the man step.)

some would say that such controversy is good--even bad free press is good, cause it's free. some might say that such uneven ads are more evidence of questionable spending of taxpayer money from the bailout. one thing i will say: i never knew until seeing these ads that there was a vehicle named the "traverse." at least chevy's added to my knowledge base of vehicles i won't buy.

appreciate your patience for this post that is off the topic originally intended for this thread but continuing in the vein to which it has drifted.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Cash for Clunkers

Don't forget Honda makes a jet plane too!

[cynsaligia]

Re: Cash for Clunkers

Don't forget Honda makes a jet plane too!

i did forget to list that, mr. watanabe. thanks!

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Cash for Clunkers

i did forget to list that, mr. watanabe. thanks!

Not a problem Cyn

[oceanpacific]

Re: Cash for Clunkers

Yeah, but it sure helps us people who are going blind!

That includes me.

I have cataract eye surgery scheduled in December for both eyes. Hopefully, I will be in the 98% who do improve. I have a hard time focusing on the computer screen these days.