Mass-murder on Texas Army Base

[Kaonohi]

Re: Mass-murder on Texas Army Base

If you feel so strongly about a topic that you cannot resist repeated and increasingly vicious personal attacks on other members, I'd encourage you to take a break and focus your attentions elsewhere.

This thread is going nowhere fast, but in the faint hope that updates and reasonable discussion can continue, I'll leave it open for now.

Oops, guess our messages 'crossed in the night.'

I retract anything that seemed 'personal,' and stand by my belief that we must awaken to prevention rather than sobbing over a tragedy we cannot repair.

[TuNnL]

Re: Mass-murder on Texas Army Base

As sick as this Hasan dude is, if he didn't have a gun, he'd find something else. Like a bomb for example, radical muslim's seem to have a fondness for those too.

Are you implying that Maj. Hasan is a radical muslim? And what exactly does that entail?

In defense of AlohaKine, he did not lump all Muslims as being violent and militant. Notice that he used the adjective radical to describe those particular Muslims who resort to the use of deadly weapons against innocent victims.

By including the “Hasan dude” and “radical muslim” in two consecutive sentences of the same paragraph, he connected two seemingly unrelated entities ala “racial profiling.” By AlohaKine’s and your rationale would that make U.S. Army veteran Timothy McVeigh a “radical atheist”?

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Mass-murder on Texas Army Base

By including the “Hasan dude” and “radical muslim” in two consecutive sentences of the same paragraph, he connected two seemingly unrelated entities ala “racial profiling.”

Ah, but now you're making an assumption by linking the two seperate sentences. Consecutive sentences, sentences in the same paragraph.... no matter how much you slice and dice 'em, they are not in the same sentence.

I continue to stand by what I said earlier. By qualifying his description of Muslims with an affinity for bombs as being "radical," Aloha Kine was not guilty of religious stereotyping. YVMV, of course.

[matapule]

Re: Mass-murder on Texas Army Base

You can google hundreds of news articles like this one which show that when more citizens carry firearms there is less violent crime.

The "Free Republic" website is a radical, right wing group. It doesn't surprise me that they arrive at their conclusion.

However, the vast majority of US law enforcement officers favor very restrictive gun control.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Mass-murder on Texas Army Base

Kook sites aside, it's a fact that if thugs/mentals know they won't have an easy go with acting out their horrid thots then they stay in their shells, for the most part. They go for easy targets, everytime.
The lady that was stabbed to death a year ago while sitting in front of a local store, if she'd had a sidearm strapped to her, the jerk that killed her would most likely have passed her by and kept looking for someone defenseless. The examples are endless.
Every state that has allowed citizens to pack eventually see's virtually all crimes drop.

[MyopicJoe]

Re: Mass-murder on Texas Army Base

What surprised me was that he was able to squeeze off a hundred rounds with two pistols and kill that many people.

I was surprised to learn the magazines for the FN 5.7 he used can hold up to 20 rounds or 30 rounds in an extended clip (thanks to the smaller caliber, I imagine). So he only had to reload 3-5 times. The smaller caliber usually means smaller recoil, so he could fire quickly and accurately. The victims probably heard a constant stream of gun fire; very intimidating. Maybe it sounded like multiple gunman working together. I know I wouldn't want to try and rush him/them unarmed.

Last I read, his second gun was a S&W .357 revolver that wasn't fired.

[Nords]

Re: Mass-murder on Texas Army Base

Every state that has allowed citizens to pack eventually see's virtually all crimes drop.

And yet for some strange, illogical, emotional reason the world is against nuclear proliferation for its deterrence value. Why, think of all the lives saved through the benefits of mutual assured destruction!

As for your assertion-- got a credible link for Hawaii's gun sellers to show to the legislature?

My personal experience has been seeing the self-inflicted injuries (and blue-on-blue) exceeding the deterrence value. But that's just anecdotal.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Mass-murder on Texas Army Base

As for your assertion-- got a credible link for Hawaii's gun sellers to show to the legislature?

I'd guess a sufficiant search would bring up the stats, but simply listening over the years to the issues has proven the debate from those who are intimately involved. I'd hope our leg. personel pay similar attention and know the facts instead of knee-jerk pleasing of constituants unreasonable fears.

Registration and licensing are both required in Hawaii, the only state to do this on both counts, and very rarely does that lead to finding the perp of a gun crime.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Mass-murder on Texas Army Base

The "Free Republic" website is a radical, right wing group. It doesn't surprise me that they arrive at their conclusion.

However, the vast majority of US law enforcement officers favor very restrictive gun control.

Perhaps they are a right-wing group (does that make them radical? You sound very reactive rather that logical and rational!).

Perhaps the vast majority of US law enforcement OFFICERS favor restrictive gun control (I didn't know that a poll had been taken among individual officers), but I DO know that the vast majority of law enforcement (police) ORGANIZATIONS favor individual second amendment rights (to include concealed carry) for sane, law-abiding citizens.

I also know that the first three pages of googling 'concealed carry' had a majority of support for the statistics that it reduces violent crime, and some were from universities that did controlled studies. I just picked one at random as an example, the first one after the two 'Wikipedia' entries.

However, this thread is NOT a forum for gun control, that's hijacking it from the original intention. If you want to compare statistics you had best start another thread.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Mass-murder on Texas Army Base

And yet for some strange, illogical, emotional reason the world is against nuclear proliferation for its deterrence value. Why, think of all the lives saved through the benefits of mutual assured destruction!

Exactly. When only one country had nukes, they were used in warfare.

When several countries have nukes, everyone's afraid to push the button.

The world is against nuclear proliferation because of the immense potential threat, but I don't see any country volunteering to be the first to give up their bombs, it's always "you first, then we will."

[matapule]

Re: Mass-murder on Texas Army Base

You sound very reactive rather that logical and rational!).

That's a durn lie you young whippersnapper! The fact of the matter is that when it comes to gun contrtol, I am SUPER reactive and hardly logical and rational!........in fact I think I'm about to go postal right now with spit balls!

However, this thread is NOT a forum for gun control, that's hijacking it from the original intention.

I dunno, you're the one that bought up gun control!

You can google hundreds of news articles like this one which show that when more citizens carry firearms there is less violent crime.

[cynsaligia]

Re: Mass-murder on Texas Army Base

to quote willow when giles appeared seemingly out of nowhere, "daddy's home. i'm in wicked trouble now."

gentlemen, the issue of gun control is wholly irrelevant in this particular case, for obvious reasons--just as radical muslims are.

there are those who choose to revel in self-congratulation as they thump their concave breasts, wring hands and turn weeping eyes skyward in a despicable display of mourning and reverence. what simpering, sniveling, inadequate cowards such folk are!

no matter. more meaningful work is being done by those who recognize the best way to honor those who died at fort hood is to examine the systemic problems that created the maelstrom, then fix those problems.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Mass-murder on Texas Army Base

Today, the day before Veterans Day, a memorial tribute was held for the 13 fallen victims of the Fort Hood massacre. The ceremony (aired on multiple TV network and cable news outlets) was a very moving one, from the president's remarks to the playing of Taps.

While paying a fitting tribute to each of the 13 victims, as well as the first responders and the surviving soldiers who put their lives on the line to help their fallen comrades, President Obama showed steel when it came to expressing his feelings towards the gunman and what that mass-murderer stood for.

It may be hard to comprehend the twisted logic that led to this tragedy. But this much we do know – no faith justifies these murderous and craven acts; no just and loving God looks upon them with favor. And for what he has done, we know that the killer will be met with justice – in this world, and the next.

As we face these challenges, the stories of those at Fort Hood reaffirm the core values that we are fighting for, and the strength that we must draw upon. Theirs are tales of American men and women answering an extraordinary call – the call to serve their comrades, their communities, and their country. In an age of selfishness, they embody responsibility. In an era of division, they call upon us to come together. In a time of cynicism, they remind us of who we are as Americans.

We are a nation of laws whose commitment to justice is so enduring that we would treat a gunman and give him due process, just as surely as we will see that he pays for his crimes.

We are a nation that guarantees the freedom to worship as one chooses. And instead of claiming God for our side, we remember Lincoln's words, and always pray to be on the side of God.

A 100%, unqualified "amen" from me on all that.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Mass-murder on Texas Army Base

I especially like this comment from the President:

We are a nation that guarantees the freedom to worship as one chooses.

I only wish, in my heart, I could believe it were true - but it's always good to be aspirational.

I apologize if this is considered steering the thread off-topic. If you feel that, please do not hesitate to ignore my comment and stay on your preferred track.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Mass-murder on Texas Army Base

We are a nation in the process of defining/redefining itself.

We have developed two mutual but opposing viewpoints:
Conservative: Allegedly that we stick to proven strategies of the past XXX years (less restriction, more freedom of choice), and
Liberal: That we change our values to be more in line with socialist/communist/humanist views (more restriction, less freedom of choice, but more alleged safety).

Each has its merit, but neither has proven to be a system for the freedom and equality that was written into our Constitution.

Ultimately, we need to decide what our values are and where we want to go, before those choices are removed from us.

(Or, is it already too late?)

I'd like to see a new political party: The UNITY party! (Dream on....)

K.