How is the economy of Hawaii lately?

[drumorgan]

Real estate seems to have hit bottom here in California, well, at least the steep plummet has stopped. Last I was hearing about HI, people were in dire straits and living in tents on the beach, even fully employed. Has HI seen more decline? or has it hit a bottom? Any signs of improvement? Anybody proposing ideas to turn it around?

[tutusue]

Re: How is the economy of Hawaii lately?

[...]Last I was hearing about HI, people were in dire straits and living in tents on the beach, even fully employed. [...]

This has been going on for about 3 years, at least, along the Waianae Coast. Investors bought up what they considered to be "cheap" property in Hawaii and raised the rents on the already economically deprived population in that area. When I drove home to Makaha last week there was a noticeable increase in tents along Nanakuli Beach. And, yes, many are employed. But, for some, being "fully employed" still isn't enough to cover expenses in Hawaii. That side of the island tends to be home to folks with minimum or close to minimum wage jobs.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: How is the economy of Hawaii lately?

Times were tough enough already for most of us during a good economy requiring two jobs just to have a comfortable lifestyle. Now take that away and try living off of unemployment. And that brings up an interesting issue. How does one who has two jobs and was laid off from the primary income job collect unemployment since that person is still working part time for the secondary job?

The good times I think are gone at least for our lifetimes especially when you consider how much taxes will be levied on earned income to pay for this massive debt we're accumulating under Obama. He had to do what he had to do...but he's doing it with credit cards to pay the bills. Eventually the US will run out of credit and then what?

So how's the local economy doing in Hawaii? As a trend, we follow California on a smaller scale by about a year. California is our crystal ball.

[matapule]

Re: How is the economy of Hawaii lately?

when you consider how much taxes will be levied on earned income to pay for this massive debt we're accumulating under Obama.

That's true....if you make over $250K a year. People with that income will experience a tax increase. For you and I, taxes will be about the same as under W this year. But maybe you're in higher tax bracket than I am.

but he's doing it with credit cards to pay the bills.

Actually it was Reagan, Bush I and Bush II who cut taxes across the board and increased spending (like the war in Iraq) on credit. It will be interesting to see how Obama will pay for the bailout come next year. He says we will have a balanced budget by the end of his first term. So it is too early to tell whether he will put debt on credit or not.

[turtlegirl]

Re: How is the economy of Hawaii lately?

How is the economy of Hawaii lately?

IT SUCKS!!!

[craigwatanabe]

Re: How is the economy of Hawaii lately?

How is the economy of Hawaii lately?

IT SUCKS!!!

Basically yeah, ditto

[Nords]

Re: How is the economy of Hawaii lately?

Times were tough enough already for most of us during a good economy requiring two jobs just to have a comfortable lifestyle. Now take that away and try living off of unemployment. And that brings up an interesting issue. How does one who has two jobs and was laid off from the primary income job collect unemployment since that person is still working part time for the secondary job?

We humans have no sense of history.

"The Way We Never Were" and "The Two-Income Trap" point out that while our parents may have enjoyed a one-income life in the 1950s, we did so as the result of over a decade of destroying most of the developed world's infrastructure and a not insubstantial portion of its population. Our grandparents and great-grandparents would have been just as incredulous/envious of our parent's "benefits", but I doubt any of us would be willing to pay the price to go there again.

I should point out that this fabled 1950s halcyon one-income life worked out great mainly for educated Caucasian Christian males. Other education levels, races, religions, genders... not so much.

The real burden on today's families? Housing costs. All of us two-income workers are driving up the prices of "good" homes in "good" neighborhoods near "good" schools. It's a self-inflicted bidding war.

I don't have an easy answer. Remember the "old" limits of keeping housing debt below 28% of net income and total debt below 36%? Saving for a 20% down payment or sharing housing? Banking the second income for the day when one of the working couple is laid off?

The good times I think are gone at least for our lifetimes especially when you consider how much taxes will be levied on earned income to pay for this massive debt we're accumulating under Obama. He had to do what he had to do...but he's doing it with credit cards to pay the bills. Eventually the US will run out of credit and then what?

A substantial portion of our personal investment portfolio benefits from a weaker dollar. It's been a pretty safe bet for over 20 years. So I was mightily surprised when the world's credit markets seized up last year and countries all fled to the safety & stability of Swiss francs euros renminbi yen... the dollar?!? The American economy may be screwed up, but apparently the rest of the world thinks it's better than their local choices.

America will continue to finance our deficits as long as the world continues to buy Treasuries, which we'll keep on paying off with inflation-eroded dollars-- especially when the Fed raises interest rates. Eventually other countries will try to trade in their Treasuries for American land (remember when the Japanese were going to own Hawaii, California, and Manhattan?) or start devaluing their own renminbi currencies. Then we'll buy it back and start the cycle all over again.

Remember when the Clinton administration predicted that 1998's productivity and profits trends would wipe out the entire federal deficit in less than two decades? There's a muddle-through solution somewhere between these two extremes.

American governments are doing what governments are supposed to do during a recession-- raise deficits to raise spending and pump in liquidity. No other organization can do that. And once the spending is over, the deficits will continue to be paid off the old-fashioned way: taxing corporate payrolls & corporate profits. It'd be nice to soak the rich a bit more (remember the high income brackets of the 1960s?) but it's much more profitable to tax excessive consumption, sin, and productivity.

A lot of lower taxes are going to expire in 2010. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out. And I wonder how much marijuana would have to be taxed to make a meaningful contribution to deficit reduction?

[Bobinator]

Re: How is the economy of Hawaii lately?

You ain't seen nothin yet. The State Government still has a $700M shortfall in its budget. Since government employees are arbitrarily bound to only 2 furlough days a month for the next 2 years, that means a lot more layoffs, even if you assume things don't get worse. There's a spiraling effect here.

However, there may be some hope if the Governor was successful in garnishing more visitors from China during her recent trip. But things aren't too great over there either, since their economy is tied to ours. Still, there's lot more rich people over there we can tap into.

I'm practicing my chinese- "Ni-hau-mau!" (Not bad, eh?)
Now, if I can only give out golf lessons. 500 Yuan per hour.