Afghanistan: You can take this one to the bank

[Bobinator]

Ummm... Okay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LsSppYxSHk

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS...tan/index.html

[matapule]

Re: You can take this one to the bank...

So Bob, do YOU want the troops in Afghanistan or not? Bush/Cheney sent them there in the first place. Did you support that decision? Where were the tea baggers then?

I never wanted the troops in Afghanistan (or Iraq) in the first place. I don't support sending more there now. Obama is just continuing the failed policies of Bush/Cheney.

Obama ia squandering the support that he enjoyed when elected. What a disappointment! The only consolation is that he was and is better than the alternative.

Where's Helen when we need her? This thread really needs a new subject line! Also, it is in the wrong section.

[Bobinator]

Re: You can take this one to the bank...

After stumbling upon what I believe to be verifiable information that we're in Afghanistan to safeguard the numerous poppy fields that supply 90%of the worlds opium, and other underlying reasons, I am withholding my support to be there. This does not mean I don't support the military. I've always loved the military. But the military doesn't make these kinds of decisions. It's the politicians. I also note we are not there to catch Bin Laden like it was originally told to us in the beginning. There is more evidence coming out that Rumsfeld let Bin Laden get away, much like how Clinton did in the 90's- http://rawstory.com/2009/11/rumsfeld...senate-report/

The facts are that poppy fields appeared in Afghan during the 80's, when the U.S. assisted Bin Laden in fighting the Russians. Today, 90% of the worlds opium originates from Afghanistan. The Taliban hates drugs and began irradicating the poppy fields before 9/11. Coincidentally, we picked a fight with Afghanistan/Taliban. Aside from theories that 9/11 was orchestrated from within, the Taliban did not fly those planes into the the World Trade Towers. Bin Laden was accused of that, but he was not "IN" the Taliban.

This "theory" is consistent with the fact that Bush refused to close our border with Mexico. Everyone knows most of the drugs come into the United States through Mexico. Obama isn't doing anything about it either.

Interestingly, we have caught or killed just about everyone else, but not Bin Laden. Try figure that one out. The Bin Laden family is very big in the Middle East, and are being hosted and well cared for by the Saudis, who are friends with the Bin Ladens. Saudi Arabia is under the control and influence of the U.S. We have military bases there and get much of our oil from Saudi Arabia. My point is, we are not in Afghanistan to catch or kill Osama Bin Laden. We could've done that a long time ago. We're there for other sinister reasons. It's another vietnam- a war that was not intended to be won. Profiteering from war is nothing new.

The point I was trying to make for awhile now is that the politicians in Washington aren't representing the American people. They get their orders from the global elite that work behind the scenes. These are the same guys that manipulate the financial markets. The top politicians in Washington just hide behind the Republican/Democrat mask. But essentially, they accomplish the same agenda the elitist have for them.

Btw, the tea baggers have nothing to do with the war in the middle east. They are average middle class Americans protesting overtaxation by the Federal Government while they squander our money to give bonuses to the mega rich, like those Goldman Sachs scum. Both Henry Paulson under Bush, and Tim Geitner under Obama, are former Goldman Sachs guys. Ben Bernanke was appointed by Bush, but reappointed by Obama recently. See what I mean? Obama's decision to send more troops comes as no surprise to me. He lied to us to get elected.

This was the only forum board dealing with politics, so my guess is this is the right place to put this thread.

[matapule]

Re: You can take this one to the bank...

I am withholding my support to be there.

So did you criticize Bush on any fora for his involvement in Afghanistan?

But the military doesn't make these kinds of decisions. It's the politicians.

Bob, the military requested these additional forces in Afghanistan and you know that!

There is more evidence coming out that Rumsfeld let Bin Laden get away, much like how Clinton did in the 90's-

I believe Clinton was in office before the WTC debacle. That was before anyone declared him a terrorist, and you know that!

The facts are that poppy fields appeared in Afghan during the 80's, when the U.S. assisted Bin Laden in fighting the Russians.

Let's see......who was President then....let me think......let me think.....ah, it was none other than Ronnie Reagan. What is your opinion of Reagan? And if memory serves me, wasn't it Bush I and Cheney who held high office in the Reagan administration?

the fact that Bush refused to close our border with Mexico. Everyone knows most of the drugs come into the United States through Mexico. Obama isn't doing anything about it either.

Oh, so all we have to do is put a big STOP sign at our border and the drugs will magically stop. I don't think so!

It's another vietnam- a war that was not intended to be won. Profiteering from war is nothing new.

And who would be profiting from the profiteering? Why that would be Cheney's Haliburton etal, the Republican backed and supported military/industrial complex. Yes Bob, reality is a biotch!

The top politicians in Washington just hide behind the Republican/Democrat mask. But essentially, they accomplish the same agenda the elitist have for them.

So Bob, who do you specifically support to lead this country?

Btw, the tea baggers have nothing to do with the war in the middle east. They are average middle class Americans protesting overtaxation by the Federal Government while they squander our money

It was Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II that cut taxes and put the Federal debt on a credit card. Eventually that debt has to be paid. Bob, how do you propose to repay that debt if not by taxes? The three largest components of the Federal budget are the Military, Social Security, and Medicare which comprise about 50% of the budget. Which one do you want to cut, which will lower taxes.

This was the only forum board dealing with politics, so my guess is this is the right place to put this thread.

Hawaii Hall deals with state politics. I think the more appropriate board is the American Asylum, but no biggee.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: You can take this one to the bank...

I also note we are not there to catch Bin Laden like it was originally told to us in the beginning.

True. Most intelligence reports indicate that he is now in Pakistan.

This was the only forum board dealing with politics, so my guess is this is the right place to put this thread.

Hawaii Hall deals primarily with matters pertaining to this state, which this thread is anything but.

Matapule is right. This really belongs in This Island Earth (world affairs). Or perhaps in American Asylum (national news), if you wish for the discussion to focus more on the American/domestic politics that are involved in the escalation of US presence in Afghanistan.

[Random]

Re: You can take this one to the bank...

I never wanted the troops in Afghanistan (or Iraq) in the first place. I don't support sending more there now. Obama is just continuing the failed policies of Bush/Cheney.

If you're looking for a swift victory that leads to the early extinction of Al Qaeda and their dogma, you're sure to lose. Don't take them for fools.

The only sure way to defeat them is through stalemates until they are tired of continuing.

Obama ia squandering the support that he enjoyed when elected. What a disappointment! The only consolation is that he was and is better than the alternative.

I don't know if his foreign policies is the reason support for him is decreasing. Many voters didn't vote for him for his foreign policy skills. They just want him to fix our own domestic economy. He failed that when he gave a few corporations bailout money.

[matapule]

Re: You can take this one to the bank...

The only sure way to defeat them is through stalemates until they are tired of continuing..

Or more lkely, vice versa, ala Viet Nam.

[Kalalau]

Re: Afghanistan: You can take this one to the bank

If only we could go back and change some history...the USSR to not invade Afghanistan, Reagan not to arm and create the then Afghan Freedom Fighters and now Al Qaeda and Taliban, Bush to have read that damn intelligence report that predicted the 9-11 attacks rather than going on vacation for a whole month before the attacks, Bush to have concentrated force against Afghanistan after the attacks rather than waste our blood and treasure and force and world good will and legitimacy in his petty Iraq debacle.

Oh well. History does not reveal its alternatives. Now we have devout religiously motivated enemies, the kind of enemies for whom keeping vengeance and hatred alive for thousands of years comes as naturally as breathing. I regret to say this, but there is only one solution. It is too unpleasant to discuss here. It will have to happen eventually. In a battle of life or death, as horrible as eliminating people is, the alternative of death not just of our people but of our culture, forever, is worse. Sorry, thats my read, I don't see any way around it.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Afghanistan: You can take this one to the bank

In a battle of life or death, as horrible as eliminating people is, the alternative of death not just of our people but of our culture, forever, is worse.

Kill them or they will kill us, eh? Sorry, but even I have a more optimistic view of humanity than that.

All of us, all of them, all of our cultures WILL be dead and gone some day, no matter what futile efforts we may make to prevent it from happening.

Why not put your own individual efforts into peacemaking and understanding? It's a struggle, and we often fail - but we can keep trying, during the brief time we have allotted to us on this earthly trip. And the more peacemakers there are, the more there will be.

Peacemakers don't get the headlines, the media attention, the stirred-up emotions of the short-attention-span populace. But peacemakers know that there is only one way to "win" the battle - and that is to never be stopped until you are dead, and die knowing that there are still others continuing the effort.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Afghanistan: You can take this one to the bank

As open-minded as I'd like to think I am, I know there are a handful of cultures and belief systems out there that I could definitely not live under. If it comes down to a choice between a world conforming to the grand vision of Hitler's Third Reich, with a master race having free rein to ram Nazi values down everyone's throat vs. nuking the Earth to kingdom come, I'll take the latter.

Just my opinion, of course.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Afghanistan: You can take this one to the bank

If it comes down to a choice between a world conforming to the grand vision of Hitler's Third Reich, with a master race having free rein to ram Nazi values down everyone's throat vs. nuking the Earth to kingdom come, I'll take the latter.

Another vote for a lose-lose scenario, I see. With mindsets like that, it's guaranteed that peace will not succeed. It helps when you recognize that humanity is not limited to either/or situations.

[Bobinator]

Re: You can take this one to the bank...

So did you criticize Bush on any fora for his involvement in Afghanistan?

Not before I realized recently we were being lied to. Unfortunately, a lot of information comes out after-the-fact. It is rather frightening to think that the people that the people that control the flow of information to us little people through the mainstream media have that much power over the way we think.

Bob, the military requested these additional forces in Afghanistan and you know that!

Of course. But what would you do if you were a general and were thrown into the lions pit with all your men. The military is forced to deal with their immediate situation- Survival!

I believe Clinton was in office before the WTC debacle. That was before anyone declared him a terrorist, and you know that!

It is well known that Clinton foiled an opportunity to kill Bin Laden after the U.S.S. Cole was bombed, killing 17 service men, not to mention the truck bomb that killed over 100 servicemen. I think that was in Somalia. Al Qaida was blamed for that. My memory may be a little short, but yours is shorter.



Let's see......who was President then....let me think......let me think.....ah, it was none other than Ronnie Reagan. What is your opinion of Reagan? And if memory serves me, wasn't it Bush I and Cheney who held high office in the Reagan administration?

Reagan was the greatest President we've had since Lincoln in terms of boosting the country's morale and in world politics. He made us look and feel on top of the world. You wouldn't catch him bowing to other world leaders, that's fer shure.


Oh, so all we have to do is put a big STOP sign at our border and the drugs will magically stop. I don't think so!

I would venture to say that most of it would be gone, yes. At the very least, you'd see a lot less, Unless Canada decides to become the next supplier. You think we're growing poppy fields in the U.S.? Show me. I guess by your reasoning, we shouldn't do anything effective because it won't erradicate the problem in its entirety. Perhaps our police officers should give traffic tickets because they won't be able to stop everyone. That kind of thinking is pretty messed up. Think about it, the only reason we have so much illegal fireworks in Hawaii during News Years Eve is because people are being paid off big time to let it through our docks. You see any fireworks manufacturers here?

And who would be profiting from the profiteering? Why that would be Cheney's Haliburton etal, the Republican backed and supported military/industrial complex. Yes Bob, reality is a biotch!

Yes. And there are many behind the scenes corporations that are owned and runned by Democrats as well. Last time I checked, there are just as many rich Democrats as Republicans on Capitol Hill.

Do you know how many millions Al Gore has invested in Green Tech stocks? It's an inconvenient truth.



So Bob, who do you specifically support to lead this country?

Someone like Ron Paul, a Libertarian, who believes in and supports the U.S. Constitution (as written). I don't agree with everything he does, but the one thing I do agree with is less government, and give the power back to the people.

Did you know that the word "democracy" doesn't exist in the Constitution? A democracy theoretically empowers 51% of the people to dictate the lives of the other 49%. Our founding Fathers intended for us to be a Constitutional Republic. In other words, as long as I'm not hurting anyone, get the hell off my lawn!!! But that's another debate.

It was Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II that cut taxes and put the Federal debt on a credit card. Eventually that debt has to be paid. Bob, how do you propose to repay that debt if not by taxes? The three largest components of the Federal budget are the Military, Social Security, and Medicare which comprise about 50% of the budget. Which one do you want to cut, which will lower taxes.

"It's the economy, stupid!" Isn't that line from Clinton? You need to take Economics 130 to understand the principles of how higher taxes undermine economic growth. Less government+less taxes= more jobs, more capitalism = economic growth and prosperity.

By the way, you need to get off your hate wagon.

Hawaii Hall deals with state politics. I think the more appropriate board is the American Asylum, but no biggee.

I'm glad that at least this matter concerning the thread's location has been resolved.

[matapule]

Re: You can take this one to the bank...

Reagan was the greatest President we've had since Lincoln in terms of boosting the country's morale and in world politics. He made us look and feel on top of the world. You wouldn't catch him bowing to other world leaders, that's fer shure.

Huh!? Not according to Agence France-Presse

Obama isn't the first American president to do so. Back in the 1980s, Republican president Ronald Reagan was criticized after bowing to Queen Elizabeth the first time he met her, and President George W. Bush bowed before Saudi Arabia's king while being presented with a medal.

But then again Bob, your memory is longer than mine and my memory is shot from a lifetime of drugs, alcohol, loose women.......and associating with Tongans!

[Random]

Re: You can take this one to the bank...

Or more lkely, vice versa, ala Viet Nam.

That's because Americans want quick results. And the terrorists know that.

They're in for the long haul. We're not.

[Random]

Re: Afghanistan: You can take this one to the bank

If only we could go back and change some history...

You mean when Clinton had the chance to go after Bin Laden while he's in office?