Open Source Government?

[cyleet99]

It is my morning to browse the 'net, and in my travels I found this.

By the People is just a short read; it challenges the basis of "public domain" in the federal government, and offers a list of what would REALLY make a transparent government.

I believe this will ultimately happen, but not without much gnashing of teeth and power shifts. Could you imagine what it would be like to have ALL aspects of the federal and state governments, present and past, available for all to see? If we are paying for it, we should have access to it.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Open Source Government?

Lots of things wouldn't happen simply because of national security. There is a thing called need to know and sometimes it's not a good idea to let everybody know things.

We've all kept things from others for the sake of continuity. We do it right here on HT with private messages to each other.

Open Source Government means no secrets hence even your own personal finances would be available for public viewing including your financial failings as well. There are some things that must be kept private for the sake of continuity.

[SusieMisajon]

Re: Open Source Government?

Being a government is something like being a parent...you don't tell the kids everything.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Open Source Government?

Being a government is something like being a parent...you don't tell the kids everything.

You...you mean Santa Claus isn't real!?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Open Source Government?

You...you mean Santa Claus isn't real!?

SAYS WHO?!?!?!

[Walkoff Balk]

Re: Open Source Government?

You...you mean Santa Claus isn't real!?

Every move you make,
Every breath you take,
Santa will be watching you.

[cyleet99]

Re: Open Source Government?

Lots of things wouldn't happen simply because of national security. There is a thing called need to know and sometimes it's not a good idea to let everybody know things.

We've all kept things from others for the sake of continuity. We do it right here on HT with private messages to each other.

Open Source Government means no secrets hence even your own personal finances would be available for public viewing including your financial failings as well. There are some things that must be kept private for the sake of continuity.

So there are downfalls, too. But why are personal finances considered available for public viewing? Just the 1040, or more? I think the "open" means where the money is spent and what is purchased with the money, not the private info of every individual who pays income tax.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Open Source Government?

So there are downfalls, too. But why are personal finances considered available for public viewing? Just the 1040, or more? I think the "open" means where the money is spent and what is purchased with the money, not the private info of every individual who pays income tax.

You can't have an open government when you supress things...anything.

[cyleet99]

Re: Open Source Government?

I don't believe this is an all-or-nothing proposition. I don't think the proponents of this idea believe that, either.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Open Source Government?

If you know where to search, my salary information is available online as a matter of public record. I just discovered that this week.

[ulluullu]

Re: Open Source Government?

In watching the video; i found the speaker to be incredibly naive about the basis of the federal government. It does not exist for the people; it exists for the corporations and the money. And from their thinking, why should they make information available for free when they could privatize it and charge you for it. Then we get in the sort of situation like in iraqaganistan where private contractors are entirely hidden from public scrutiny.

I think the speaker needs to look in to the national security state that eisenhower warned us about; and at the straussian thinking that has taken over government since the unelected bush clan hacked up the constitution for a revised monarchy... and how obama and his hope-a-dopers have done squat
to reverse the slide towards secret government by unelected elites. The US national security state is the greatest evil on the planet today - as it is ungoverned and unmonitored by the people. These same people somehow believe that it exists to defend them when clearly it exists as a global empire that starts a new war every year.

Like how the decision to go to war is no longer taken by the congress, or
the people; or the decision to print a trillion dollars is taken in secret by the
fed, or the decision to deploy nearly 25% of the national budget on defense
in secret - the beast has not had oversight in ages - what a delusion to
believe the propaganda that government exists like the declaration of
independence suggests - by the consent of the governed.

There is no reason for national security, and if i'm pollyanna, i'm all for the
end of all state secrecy (and corporate secrecy - corporations deriving
their charter from the state) - but its not realistic. I rather predict the ongoing dumbing down of the population behind more and more propaganda like Faux TV with decisions taken behind closed doors by the money and
the man. Tragically, the speaker mentions FDR - and i can't help but think
of his remark "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself". Yet today,
the entire government exists out of fear, it spreads fear and feeds on it,
fear of not having a job, fear of being screwed by the rich and powerful
corporations, fear of all the enemies abroad the US is earning by thieving
the world's resources (google afganistan pipeline unocal)... the US is just
doing the same thing the east india tea company did hundreds of years ago.
It is no less criminal, this colonial theiving from the brown people of the
south - but state racism lives on today... and even with open statistics
about how the drugs war is incarcerating vastly more dark skinned persons
than white; not to mention the fact that prohibition is a gross failure across
the board with decades of data to back it up - without an independent
free press/4th estate, there is no informed public - then there is no
democratic repbublic - just the owners and their scam.

George Carlin tells it like it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0OJEFlq7A

[surlygirly]

Re: Open Source Government?

IF this were to happen, I think you should have to pass a test to be allowed to access the info. There are way too many people out there that would freak out and/or take this info the wrong way and start a massive panic. I mean, some people can't even handle mass emails. Just check out Snopes.com and think of all the people you know who have sent you those emails honestly believing you're going to die from drinking a Diet Coke every few months, or that spider hiding under the toliet seat is gonna get you. These people do not need access to government secrets.

[cyleet99]

Re: Open Source Government?

i found the speaker to be incredibly naive

the ongoing dumbing down of the population

IF this were to happen, I think you should have to pass a test to be allowed to access the info.

These people do not need access to government secrets.

Anyone else see a trend here?


1. Why should there BE "government secrets"?

2. When America was founded, society was more severely divided than it is now. Yet the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence pertained to all citizens, and all citizens participated in the life of the USA. The general public was not considered too stupid to participate; they may have been considered "unwashed masses," but they believed in the government, ran for office to help lead, and voted.

3. If the American public is not intelligent enough to participate in its own governing, why are we still voting for representation?

4. There will always be conspiracy theorists and those (usually in elected office) who feel this nation of peoples "can't handle the truth." Yet our shores and borders are under constant barrage from those who want to live here. Now THAT is a dichotomy.

[surlygirly]

Re: Open Source Government?

3. If the American public is not intelligent enough to participate in its own governing, why are we still voting for representation?

4. There will always be conspiracy theorists and those (usually in elected office) who feel this nation of peoples "can't handle the truth." Yet our shores and borders are under constant barrage from those who want to live here. Now THAT is a dichotomy.

3. Hasn't the majority of the American public been disappointed in their leadership in the recent years? First Bush Jr, then Obama? The latter's approval rating has been horrid, from what I've read. Guess they're not making such great decisions. Also- a lot of people aren't even bothering to vote.

4. People move to this country for lots of reasons, including as refugees of war, to escape poverty and find better job opportunities, to be closer to family. But yes, I see your point.

[ulluullu]

Re: Open Source Government?

2. When America was founded, society was more severely divided than it is now. Yet the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence pertained to all citizens, and all citizens participated in the life of the USA. The general public was not considered too stupid to participate; they may have been considered "unwashed masses," but they believed in the government, ran for office to help lead, and voted.

Yet all persons with dark skin were not citizens. We can look back to
history with our rose colored glasses to the perfect past, but the fact is that women did not have political rights until the last century, and slavery... you know..
Rather our history is one of ruthless oppression and the people rising up to
get some meagre rights from the oppressors like the 40 hour work week,
social security; a woman's right to vote and medical cannabis.

And one has to ask why our represenatives get to washington and the
policies never change... obama gets in to end the wars and then rolls over
and adopts the bush policies - even ramps them up (given his net increases
in troop numbers and contractors in asia minor).

We *should* have open information, but national security is an all
encompassing term to protect the interests of the ruling class; and since
they own the corporations and they own the wage slaves - they'd rather
send someone else's children to die in infinite wars than address the
democratic deficit.

There is no consitution - that's why they don't use it, or just make stuff up
like "unitary presidency" to get whatever the warmongers want. When the
people need something like single payer healthcare, they get the screw,
and it gets turned around in to a mandatory bailout of joe lieberman's
insurance industry that bought him off so he represents them and not
the voters.... and on and on with every representative except for the
rare alan grayson, cynthia mckinney, nader or kucinich...

Where in the constitution or the federalist papers did it say corporations
should have the same rights as living persons?... no, there is an unwritten
constitution that expalins the basis of power - and indeed the internet
shines a light on that. Then when they do stuff like blow up the WTC towers
on 911, most of the population is so ignorant about physics that they
believe that steel towers blow apart in mushroom clouds from a few gallons
of kerosene... and then what constitution is there when the government
can mass murder its people to get war and power... then the history is
no different than any other of the imperial powers of old europe.

We desperately need and end to national secrecy for total freedom of
information - as its the only way that the republic can reform itself.
Some would say its beyond reform, and that history shows us every
empire of man ultimately declines and dies off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H94HEtSrsiU