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"Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

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  • #61
    Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    I have mixed feelings on the ending, not in terms of the quaility of the story telling but rather the explaintation of the island itself. I was sort of rooting for the island being some kind of spaceship (or starship) built inside of an asteroid that crashed to Earth a long time ago and over time plants managed to grow on the outside of it. It would explain things like the various magnetic spots around the island, the ability of it to move somewhere else when somebody tries engage it somewhat working stardrive and of course the smoke monster.
    Last edited by helen; May 29, 2010, 08:44 PM.

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    • #62
      Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

      Someone on a listserv posted this summary from Greg Nations:

      Well, it appears that Greg Nations (one of the writers and THE official
      keeper of Lost mythology) has come clean about the show and its plot. He

      wrote it on a message board. I've edited out a couple of personal comments.
      Here is what he wrote:

      I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too
      long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of the questions about Dharma and
      the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...

      First ...
      *The Island:*

      It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout
      the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was
      put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had
      come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered
      Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the
      world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will
      always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last.
      However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother,
      nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to
      kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

      Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one
      thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that
      spanned generations. Yet every time he brought people there, the MIB
      corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard
      came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active
      role, then his plan would never work.

      Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time
      grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to
      the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill
      the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interfered by
      "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in
      reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of
      Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far
      as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were
      actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates
      because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

      Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's
      corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only
      brought there to help Jack and the other Candidates on their overall quest
      to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Candidates from the Dharma
      group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposely not
      answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse
      than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is
      not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blatant.

      Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our
      Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will.
      Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting
      them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew
      Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector
      in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the
      show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew
      from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part
      over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to
      kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the
      writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they)
      because that ruins the fun.

      In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first
      episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off
      the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing.
      And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone
      by helping them all move on ...

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

        Cont'd Greg Nations:


        Now...

        *Sideways World: *

        Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and
        metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion
        theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically
        what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during
        our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But
        these people we're linked to are with us during "the most important moments
        of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the
        universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduism with
        large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

        The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious
        philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this
        "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and
        find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and
        move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife.
        According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with
        their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move
        on *together*. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or
        even spiritual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound
        and moving.

        It's a really cool and spiritual concept that fits the whole tone and
        subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to
        be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events
        -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God
        (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was
        always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of
        faith. It answered *THE* core question of the series. The one question that
        has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory,
        every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

        How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think
        about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE
        answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was
        just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing
        more, and more of a larger mosaic.

        But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this
        Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared
        to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the
        MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded
        the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be
        unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others,
        passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack,
        some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in
        this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on
        TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for
        eternity. That was their destiny.

        They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis,
        (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't
        in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again,
        here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think
        about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have
        to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that
        those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's
        partner, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

        A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the
        Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you
        the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't
        connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken
        Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the
        rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's
        number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with
        his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when
        all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday,
        Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At
        least to me.

        But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the
        church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is
        because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. *And
        never changed it.* The writers always said (and many didn't believe them)
        that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for
        that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode
        arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have
        easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they
        problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church
        ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the
        original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches
        the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was
        always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

        For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it,
        but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done
        before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count.
        And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos,
        countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me
        that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV)
        and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a
        lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the
        incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on
        the show for 6 years.

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        • #64
          Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

          Sorry, I tried to find the message board that purportedly has this info on it (so I could just link instead of posting the whole long thing) and could not. I'm not sure if the info above is legit but it seems interesting anyhow.

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          • #65
            Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

            The finale replayed tonight on KITV with the enchanced text. I tuned in kind of late but sort of noticed the text stopped being displayed when Jack got moved (or teleported) to the outside pool. I wasn't paying much attention to the airing so it might have stopped sooner.

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            • #66
              Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

              Interesting post, but at least part of it sounds awfully fishy...

              Originally posted by Adri View Post
              But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. *And never changed it.*

              The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that.
              Desmond, Penny & Juliet were in the church, and none of them were in season one. Obviously, the writers were willing to change things up enough to include them but not Ben, so they were NOT clever enough to write the final ending during season one. I agree the exchange between Ben and Locke outside the church was great writing, though, so I'm not saying these writers aren't brilliant.

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              • #67
                Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

                Was not enthralled with the ending but I must admit part of this had to do with the fact after 6 years I was tired of it, the sideways, flashbacks and flashforwards got way too confusing to me and I was losing interest big time.

                So in some ways I was happy the show was ending because I had lost patience already.

                Why wasnt Walt included in the finale, especially since the dog made an appearence?

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                • #68
                  Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

                  Originally posted by Kalihiboy View Post
                  especially since the dog made an appearence?
                  Do dogs go to Heaven?


                  or do they stay in purgatory?
                  Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                  ~ ~
                  Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                  Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                  Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

                    Originally posted by zff View Post
                    After Jack's eye closed, they rolled the closing credits along with shots of the wreckage.
                    I was assuming that it was the wreckage of Oceanic 815 but it could also be the wreckage of Ajara 316 as well. What's to say Widmore hid more explosives on the plane that the Man in Black didn't find.

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                    • #70
                      Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

                      Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
                      Do dogs go to Heaven?
                      or do they stay "Lost" in purgatory?
                      Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                      ~ ~
                      Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                      Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                      Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

                        I'm glad they didn't do a it was all a dream explanation. Or was it?

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

                          I'm glad that "Jate" finally won out... though I wish there would have been a little more "awakened" sideways interaction since the series always tossed in a monkey wrench whenever they seemed happy with each other. Maybe I'm just a sap?

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                          • #73
                            Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

                            The long post copied and pasted above was not by Gregg Nations, nor by anyone officially connected to the show. Sadly, it's becoming a bit of a LOST-specific urban legend. Some of the thoughts no doubt have helped folks process what happened, but don't place any confidence in it as an "official" explanation.

                            The series finale was definitely controversial. I've heard some pretty good rethinkings of the whole show as an "Occurrance at Owl Creek"-like imagining that happens to Jack in the split second before he dies... but I'm confident that wasn't what we've spent the last six years watching.

                            It might very well have been the original conceit of the show, of course. An idea can morph quite a bit over six years!

                            But I see the whole of "LOST" as the telling of one cycle of an unending cycle of protectors, exploiters, and victims of the mysterious island, and the thousand or so mysteries of said island may or may not have been explained in service of the characters' journeys. Given the original title of the concept was "The Circle," it fits.

                            I loved the finale, largely for how it felt like an ending. I loved that the 'flash-sideways' was one last mind-bending twist by the writers (a la the flash-forward at the end of Season 3). I feel for all the folks dissatisfied with the loose ends, but they've not been the main appeal of the show for me. I will say that the journey was easily much more valuable in the end than the destination we got.

                            My wife and I produced two podcasts focused on the series finale, one recorded right after we saw it, and one after a week of thinking about it. You can listen to both here.

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                            • #74
                              Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

                              I imagine that many of you have been following Jorge Garcia's blog over the past few years, and are aware of his love for his pet chihuahua Nunu. Sadly, I saw yesterday that Jorge had posted this:

                              “It breaks my heart to tell you that yesterday as we were preparing to all go to the airport Nunu was struck by a car as she crossed the street. She died in my arms.
                              "We are burying her in the Pet Garden at Valley of the Temples in Kaneohe. Nunu hated the water so we couldn't bring ourselves to having her ashes scattered in the ocean. Three months from now you'll be able to find a bronze plaque inscribed with just her name there. If you'd like to leave a flower or a toy, I'm sure she'd love it.”



                              Well, as sad as that is, a friend just advised me that the gossip website TMZ.com just posted the story, quoting Jorge and adding this:

                              “Garcia took to his blog yesterday, saying his dog Nunu had been run over by a car on Sunday -- right before he left for the airport on the island of Kailua, Hawaii ... where they filmed a bunch of stuff for "Lost."

                              AHA. We learn from TMZ that the secret mysterious island from LOST is named... Kailua?!?



                              R.I.P., Nunu.
                              .
                              .

                              That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

                                Originally posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
                                I'm glad they didn't do a it was all a dream explanation. Or was it?
                                Oh crap you had to put that angle in there didn't you!

                                Watch...next season you'll see Jack open his eyes and the wrecked plane is gone...

                                ** Tymphonic sounds eminate throughout the scene as Jack get's up...then the backstage announcer shouts, "The Fat Lady hasn't sung yet kiddo's!!!! HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!! LOST...IS NEXT!!" **
                                Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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