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Thread: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

  1. #51
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    Lightbulb Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by mel View Post
    I hope Target sells a lot of smoke alarms.
    Betchya Motorola® sells more Droids.

    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
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  2. #52
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    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    Excellent article in today's Star-Bulletin at this link by our own PZ/Ryan. Very nicely written, PZ!!!

    Anyone else wonder why Ben didn't go inside the church? I'm trying to remember what he said -- something like "I can't" or "I'm not ready yet." That means he's the only one who didn't die? Or the rest of them were in heaven and Ben is The Devil? Hmmmm...
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    Good article and pretty much sums up the show as it is.

    In the end it came down to the characters, and they mostly all got closure in the end, going to the next life in hopefully a better place. The ride and adventure is over for all of them.

    The mystery of the island remains and rightfully so.

    Come on, the writers and producers certainly did not want to shut the door completely by explaining every little detail about the island. Certainly the island could be on the bottom of the ocean at the series end, or maybe somewhere else on Earth... waiting for the next group of people to stumble upon it perhaps in another time or another dimension... sound very Twilight Zoney...heh.

    The mystery remains so that another story can be told sometime in the future, perhaps through a theatrical movie or even another TV series.

    It's all marketing. In Hollywood you don't keep a good thing down forever. You pick it up again at a later date, continue with the story or premise, or as of late like other series, re-invent the whole thing all over again.
    I'm still here. Are you?

  4. #54
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    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    A few days ago someone asked Jorge Garcia if he knew everything about the ending. He said he did, except there was one critical scene where just two of the characters were involved, and nobody else was allowed to watch the filming.
    I'm guessing that it was the conversation between Jack and his father, in the church.
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  5. #55

    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    Anybody else not like the ending? I thought the producers all along said that they were not dead or in pergatory?

  6. #56

    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    I didn't like the ending when I saw it. After Jack's eye closed, they rolled the closing credits along with shots of the wreckage. I interpreted this to mean everyone died in the plane crash, and the last 6 years have been a collective purgatory. I went to sleep a little confused and mostly disappointed with the show.

    It was shortly after I woke up the next morning when it hit me. I remember seeing Desmond, Penny and Juliet in the church. If everyone died in the crash and everything on the island was fantasy, these three people shouldn't be real. Anyway, it was from thinking about that that I figured out the island was real and flash-sideways weren't. Then when I recalled Hurley telling Ben he was a great #2, I realized my new understanding of the show is the one the writers intended.

    Once I had that epiphany, the end of the show sat much better with me. I still didn't care for it and still think it could have been MUCH better. That said, it's not so much the destination as it was the journey. Lost has been a great 6 years, and that last episode -- despite my issues with it -- was one of the best episodes ever.

    I was really hoping for an ending on par with a show like "Six Feet Under". That show had probably the best finale of any show I've ever seen. Lost missed an oppourtunity to close with a finale as epic, but I'm satisfied with what we got.


    So what now? A half-hour sitcom of Hurley and Ben running the Island like "The Office"? The one-hour Miles and Sawyer police drama?
    Last edited by zff; May 28th, 2010 at 01:16 PM.

  7. #57
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    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    Well for sure Jack is dead, I don't know about everyone else.

    However if someone had said to me that the overall storyline of Lost that we have seen is about the last few seconds of life of one Doctor Jack Shepard as he lies in the middle of a bamboo forest following the breakup of Oceanic flight 815 of which he was a passenger and his mind is going through on events that have happened, might have happen if he survived the crash or could have happen if he did something else a long time ago. Then I would say it is a more believeable story line than about a group of people that survived a mid air break up of a plane that ended up on a strange island (with no name) that contains polar bears, buildings in the ground built by well finaniced gun-toting, bulldozer hippies (okay the hippies brought over the polar bears), who were opposed by Latin capable speaking survivors of various shipwrecks throught out time with access to a somewhat working but forgotten hydrogen bomb lead by an unseen leader who is opposed by his long dead twin brother who is sometimes putzing through the nonamed island as a black cloud of smoke terrorizing and killing some of the new comers but can not do anything itself to get off the island which somehow has bizzare things that defy normal laws of physics like pockets of magnetic forces that can shake loose gold fillings in someones mouth (gold is not effected by magnets), water that stops flowing if you uncork a drain, unstable dynamite that does not explode if you are special but blows you into pieces if you are not special. You can die if you bump your head on a rock or about to give birth but you can survive a plane crash or not get the bends from escaping a sinking submarine and somehow be able to find a sewing kit out of no where to patch up that bullet entry wound of your friend but not bother to patch up the exit wound.

  8. #58
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    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    Helen - that is, without a doubt, the BEST retelling of "Lost" that I have seen! Well done! If you don't mind - I'm going to share it on my facebook page.
    "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
    – Sydney J. Harris

  9. #59

    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    Was the ending better for a tv series than surprise endings to series such as St. Elsewhere, Newhart, or The Sopranos?

  10. #60
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    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    I liked the ending of LOST.

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    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    I have mixed feelings on the ending, not in terms of the quaility of the story telling but rather the explaintation of the island itself. I was sort of rooting for the island being some kind of spaceship (or starship) built inside of an asteroid that crashed to Earth a long time ago and over time plants managed to grow on the outside of it. It would explain things like the various magnetic spots around the island, the ability of it to move somewhere else when somebody tries engage it somewhat working stardrive and of course the smoke monster.
    Last edited by helen; May 29th, 2010 at 08:44 PM.

  12. #62

    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    Someone on a listserv posted this summary from Greg Nations:

    Well, it appears that Greg Nations (one of the writers and THE official
    keeper of Lost mythology) has come clean about the show and its plot. He

    wrote it on a message board. I've edited out a couple of personal comments.
    Here is what he wrote:

    I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too
    long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of the questions about Dharma and
    the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...

    First ...
    *The Island:*

    It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout
    the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was
    put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had
    come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered
    Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the
    world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will
    always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last.
    However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother,
    nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to
    kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

    Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one
    thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that
    spanned generations. Yet every time he brought people there, the MIB
    corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard
    came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active
    role, then his plan would never work.

    Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time
    grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to
    the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill
    the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interfered by
    "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in
    reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of
    Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far
    as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were
    actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates
    because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

    Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's
    corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only
    brought there to help Jack and the other Candidates on their overall quest
    to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Candidates from the Dharma
    group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposely not
    answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse
    than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is
    not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blatant.

    Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our
    Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will.
    Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting
    them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew
    Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector
    in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the
    show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew
    from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part
    over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to
    kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the
    writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they)
    because that ruins the fun.

    In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first
    episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off
    the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing.
    And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone
    by helping them all move on ...

  13. #63

    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    Cont'd Greg Nations:


    Now...

    *Sideways World: *

    Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and
    metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion
    theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically
    what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during
    our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But
    these people we're linked to are with us during "the most important moments
    of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the
    universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduism with
    large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

    The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious
    philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this
    "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and
    find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and
    move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife.
    According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with
    their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move
    on *together*. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or
    even spiritual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound
    and moving.

    It's a really cool and spiritual concept that fits the whole tone and
    subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to
    be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events
    -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God
    (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was
    always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of
    faith. It answered *THE* core question of the series. The one question that
    has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory,
    every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

    How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think
    about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE
    answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was
    just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing
    more, and more of a larger mosaic.

    But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this
    Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared
    to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the
    MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded
    the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be
    unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others,
    passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack,
    some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in
    this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on
    TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for
    eternity. That was their destiny.

    They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis,
    (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't
    in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again,
    here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think
    about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have
    to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that
    those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's
    partner, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

    A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the
    Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you
    the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't
    connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken
    Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the
    rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's
    number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with
    his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when
    all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday,
    Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At
    least to me.

    But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the
    church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is
    because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. *And
    never changed it.* The writers always said (and many didn't believe them)
    that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for
    that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode
    arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have
    easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they
    problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church
    ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the
    original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches
    the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was
    always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

    For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it,
    but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done
    before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count.
    And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos,
    countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me
    that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV)
    and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a
    lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the
    incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on
    the show for 6 years.

  14. #64

    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    Sorry, I tried to find the message board that purportedly has this info on it (so I could just link instead of posting the whole long thing) and could not. I'm not sure if the info above is legit but it seems interesting anyhow.

  15. #65
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    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    The finale replayed tonight on KITV with the enchanced text. I tuned in kind of late but sort of noticed the text stopped being displayed when Jack got moved (or teleported) to the outside pool. I wasn't paying much attention to the airing so it might have stopped sooner.

  16. #66

    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    Interesting post, but at least part of it sounds awfully fishy...

    Quote Originally Posted by Adri View Post
    But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. *And never changed it.*

    The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that.
    Desmond, Penny & Juliet were in the church, and none of them were in season one. Obviously, the writers were willing to change things up enough to include them but not Ben, so they were NOT clever enough to write the final ending during season one. I agree the exchange between Ben and Locke outside the church was great writing, though, so I'm not saying these writers aren't brilliant.

  17. #67

    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    Was not enthralled with the ending but I must admit part of this had to do with the fact after 6 years I was tired of it, the sideways, flashbacks and flashforwards got way too confusing to me and I was losing interest big time.

    So in some ways I was happy the show was ending because I had lost patience already.

    Why wasnt Walt included in the finale, especially since the dog made an appearence?

  18. #68
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    Wink Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalihiboy View Post
    especially since the dog made an appearence?
    Do dogs go to Heaven?


    or do they stay in purgatory?
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
    ~ ~
    Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

  19. #69
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    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by zff View Post
    After Jack's eye closed, they rolled the closing credits along with shots of the wreckage.
    I was assuming that it was the wreckage of Oceanic 815 but it could also be the wreckage of Ajara 316 as well. What's to say Widmore hid more explosives on the plane that the Man in Black didn't find.

  20. #70
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    Wink Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    Do dogs go to Heaven?
    or do they stay "Lost" in purgatory?
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
    ~ ~
    Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

  21. #71

    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    I'm glad they didn't do a it was all a dream explanation. Or was it?

  22. #72

    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    I'm glad that "Jate" finally won out... though I wish there would have been a little more "awakened" sideways interaction since the series always tossed in a monkey wrench whenever they seemed happy with each other. Maybe I'm just a sap?

  23. #73
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    Red face Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    The long post copied and pasted above was not by Gregg Nations, nor by anyone officially connected to the show. Sadly, it's becoming a bit of a LOST-specific urban legend. Some of the thoughts no doubt have helped folks process what happened, but don't place any confidence in it as an "official" explanation.

    The series finale was definitely controversial. I've heard some pretty good rethinkings of the whole show as an "Occurrance at Owl Creek"-like imagining that happens to Jack in the split second before he dies... but I'm confident that wasn't what we've spent the last six years watching.

    It might very well have been the original conceit of the show, of course. An idea can morph quite a bit over six years!

    But I see the whole of "LOST" as the telling of one cycle of an unending cycle of protectors, exploiters, and victims of the mysterious island, and the thousand or so mysteries of said island may or may not have been explained in service of the characters' journeys. Given the original title of the concept was "The Circle," it fits.

    I loved the finale, largely for how it felt like an ending. I loved that the 'flash-sideways' was one last mind-bending twist by the writers (a la the flash-forward at the end of Season 3). I feel for all the folks dissatisfied with the loose ends, but they've not been the main appeal of the show for me. I will say that the journey was easily much more valuable in the end than the destination we got.

    My wife and I produced two podcasts focused on the series finale, one recorded right after we saw it, and one after a week of thinking about it. You can listen to both here.

  24. #74
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    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    I imagine that many of you have been following Jorge Garcia's blog over the past few years, and are aware of his love for his pet chihuahua Nunu. Sadly, I saw yesterday that Jorge had posted this:

    “It breaks my heart to tell you that yesterday as we were preparing to all go to the airport Nunu was struck by a car as she crossed the street. She died in my arms.
    "We are burying her in the Pet Garden at Valley of the Temples in Kaneohe. Nunu hated the water so we couldn't bring ourselves to having her ashes scattered in the ocean. Three months from now you'll be able to find a bronze plaque inscribed with just her name there. If you'd like to leave a flower or a toy, I'm sure she'd love it.”



    Well, as sad as that is, a friend just advised me that the gossip website TMZ.com just posted the story, quoting Jorge and adding this:

    “Garcia took to his blog yesterday, saying his dog Nunu had been run over by a car on Sunday -- right before he left for the airport on the island of Kailua, Hawaii ... where they filmed a bunch of stuff for "Lost."

    AHA. We learn from TMZ that the secret mysterious island from LOST is named... Kailua?!?



    R.I.P., Nunu.
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

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    Default Re: "Lost" - The Final Season (6): Episode & Storyline Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
    I'm glad they didn't do a it was all a dream explanation. Or was it?
    Oh crap you had to put that angle in there didn't you!

    Watch...next season you'll see Jack open his eyes and the wrecked plane is gone...

    ** Tymphonic sounds eminate throughout the scene as Jack get's up...then the backstage announcer shouts, "The Fat Lady hasn't sung yet kiddo's!!!! HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!! LOST...IS NEXT!!" **
    Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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