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Thread: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    The Christian spirit of Father Damien was incredibly, deeply moving. Truly, a saint. This is what I think of when I think of the true Christian spirit, to help the afflicted, not to condemn.
    Well said K. I too visited Kalaupapa during the summer of 1967 and saw the results of his work there. Fr. Damien is justified to be honored in the highest ranks of the humanistic spirit. Father Damien is my kind of Christian, a person who sets a good example for all of us.
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  2. #77
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    Default Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    I had the very good fortune to visit Kalaupapa a few years ago. The Christian spirit of Father Damien was incredibly, deeply moving. Truly, a saint. This is what I think of when I think of the true Christian spirit, to help the afflicted, not to condemn them like Robertson does, especially for his own personal financial gain.
    Exactly. As they say, those who can't do, preach teach!

    Can't think of anything creative this time


  3. #78

    Default Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    I had the very good fortune to visit Kalaupapa a few years ago. The Christian spirit of Father Damien was incredibly, deeply moving. Truly, a saint. This is what I think of when I think of the true Christian spirit, to help the afflicted, not to condemn them like Robertson does, especially for his own personal financial gain.
    This is the part I don't get. How did Pat Robertson condemn Haiti???...
    Did Robertson call upon the earthquake to execute judgment on Haiti? I mean, C'mon! The man simply expressed his belief that they were struck by calamity because of their demonic practices and a long standing covenant with the devil. I have heard first hand accounts of voodoo and witchcraft practices in Haiti, and man, it's baaaad.

    I posed a question earlier regarding Buddhist and Hindu philosophy of karma, to which no one responded. To me, that's a sign there's a double standard going on here. I just read this week's Midweek that Sharon Stone made statements that a previous earthquake in China was the direct result of China's policy on Tibet. You don't hear that in the news! Bunch of media hypocrites!!!

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    Default Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobinator View Post
    This is the part I don't get. How did Pat Robertson condemn Haiti???...I just read this week's Midweek that Sharon Stone made statements that a previous earthquake in China was the direct result of China's policy on Tibet. You don't hear that in the news! Bunch of media hypocrites!!!
    Bob, you didn't read far enough. Here you go: Sharon Stone apologizes for comments. Perhaps a little quick to condemn, especially since you only read half the story?

    Sharon Stone also contributed to Chinese earthquake relief. I wonder how much Robertson contributed to Haiti relief?
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

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  5. #80

    Default Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobinator View Post
    I just read this week's Midweek that Sharon Stone made statements that a previous earthquake in China was the direct result of China's policy on Tibet. You don't hear that in the news! Bunch of media hypocrites!!!
    Your reading tends to be rather selective, Bob. Not only was it all over the media when it happened in 2008, but it was even the topic of an HT thread.

  6. #81

    Default Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    There is a former NBA basketball player who wrote that he wouldn't donate for Haiti relief. I don't remember his name because I never heard of him.

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    Default Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    Quote Originally Posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
    There is a former NBA basketball player who wrote that he wouldn't donate for Haiti relief. I don't remember his name because I never heard of him.
    That would be the "bricklayer", Paul Shirley.
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    Default Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    I had the very good fortune to visit Kalaupapa a few years ago. The Christian spirit of Father Damien was incredibly, deeply moving. Truly, a saint. This is what I think of when I think of the true Christian spirit, to help the afflicted, not to condemn them like Robertson does, especially for his own personal financial gain.
    Way off! The only saints that amounted to more than a hill of beans are those who turned people from their evil ways, moved them to repent and amend to the path of the Lord. You're making out the 'BTW' portion of the original Ministry to have been the primary focus, which, of course, it was not. "'Oooooh, he heals and comforts, never been a man like Him before, eh?', 'Nope, that's women's work!'" (Sounds like something I could have heard on The Simpsons )
    Last edited by salmoned; January 28th, 2010 at 07:49 AM.
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  9. #84

    Default Translation please...

    Quote Originally Posted by salmoned View Post
    Way off! The only saints that amounted to more than a hill of beans are those who turned people from their evil ways, moved them to repent and amend to the path of the Lord. You're making out the 'BTW' portion of the original Ministry to have been the primary focus, which, of course, it was not. "'Oooooh, he heals and comforts, never been a man like Him before, eh?', 'Nope, that's women's work!'" (Sounds like something I could have heard on The Simpsons )
    Anybody else not understand that?

  10. #85

    Default Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    Bob, you didn't read far enough. Here you go: Sharon Stone apologizes for comments. Perhaps a little quick to condemn, especially since you only read half the story?

    Sharon Stone also contributed to Chinese earthquake relief. I wonder how much Robertson contributed to Haiti relief?
    Apologies mean squat, especially when it comes from a declining Hollywood actress trying to preserve her movie career. Same goes for politicians shedding tears for their infidelities. Sharon Stone said it out of spite. Pat Robertson has no reason to be spiteful of Haiti. The main message of Christianity is repentance. Totally different motives here. Any Christian that doesn't speak out against the sins of a country or nation is not what they profess to be.

    I wouldn't be so quick to compare Robertson to Stone. Robertson's 700 Club has donated many millions to relief causes. That's what they do. It's unfortunate, however, that Robertson makes millions too. I don't have the facts on how that happens or what he donates personally, so I won't go there.

  11. #86

    Default Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
    Your reading tends to be rather selective, Bob. Not only was it all over the media when it happened in 2008, but it was even the topic of an HT thread.
    In that case, I stand corrected. But still, the story on Stone wasn't nearly a big splash as Robertson's. Robertson is a religious figure, so it would seem that he has more justification in speaking his mind, if not a moral obligation.

    Can you imagine Jesus or Moses being afraid of what people thought of them...?
    Last edited by Bobinator; January 28th, 2010 at 08:30 AM.

  12. #87

    Default Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    "All the missionaries staying in the local pastor's home were safe, but a neighboring home claimed every life inside."

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/inte...ng_Jesus_.html

  13. #88

    Default Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobinator View Post
    I wouldn't be so quick to compare Robertson to Stone.
    Then why did you bring Sharon Stone into this discussion in the first place?

  14. #89

    Default Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    I had the very good fortune to visit Kalaupapa a few years ago. The Christian spirit of Father Damien was incredibly, deeply moving. Truly, a saint. This is what I think of when I think of the true Christian spirit, to help the afflicted, not to condemn them like Robertson does, especially for his own personal financial gain.
    Interesting you bring that up.

    The Bible talks about God striking people with leprosy for bad things they have done. This would include Miriam (the sister of Moses) for murmurring, Gehazi (the servant of Elisha) for deceit, and King Uzziah for being presumptuous.

    If Father Damien had the same attitude that Pat Robertson had, he likewise would have condemned each of the lepers on Molokai as having committed sins against God, just like those Biblical figures.

    But Damien didn't see it that way, and as far as I know, he never said that the lepers suffered their diseases as some sort of divine retribution. He just helped the lepers without questioning or interrogating them. He had enough sense and compassion to know that not every disease is contracted because someone has committed a sin against God. Too bad that Robertson didn't have the same sense and compassion to know that not every instance of natural disaster is just cause for anyone to speculate that the victims are getting their just desserts from God.

    120 years after his death, Damien's legacy is all but ensured. Time will tell if future generations have even a tiny fraction of admiration for Robertson that they'll hold for Damien.
    Last edited by Frankie's Market; January 28th, 2010 at 11:01 AM.

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    Default Re: Translation please...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
    Anybody else not understand that?
    He is filled with the holy spirit and "speaking in tongues." Since we are not filled with the holy spirit, we have no idea what he just said. Maybe Bob can translate for us.
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  16. #91

    Default Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobinator View Post
    The main message of Christianity is repentance.
    Hmm. Perhaps your "brand" of Christianity, but I don't know if all other Christians would agree. Let's ask 'em (since I'm not one - and I always thought the main message of Christianity was "love"). Anyone else of the Christian faith want to chime in on this, to support, refute or clarify?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
    Anybody else not understand that?
    I confess, though I often disagree with salmoned, I can usually understand him (to a degree). In this case, I don't think I can agree or disagree - it's certainly not my area of expertise.

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    Smile Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    I'll put my vote with Father Damien.

    As a Christian, I draw my faith from the Jesus I see in the gospels (the one who preferred tax collectors, prostitutes and other public sinners to the professionally virtuous), and in the writings of the people who knew him and followed him closely.

    If repentance was the only thing God wanted from us, John the Baptist would have been bigger than Christ. And St Paul makes it pretty clear that the message of the Old Testament, the 'Law', is not what saves us, but God's love, and our response of faith.

    I hope I don't sound like I'm preaching, I'm just trying to say what I believe, passionately.
    Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

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    Default Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    Christianity is about redeeming love; repentance is a part of it, but not the basis.

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    Default Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    Quote Originally Posted by Betsey View Post
    I hope I don't sound like I'm preaching, I'm just trying to say what I believe, passionately.
    Betsey, you are not preaching, you are speaking eloquently. We need more Christians like you.

    Blessed be.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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    Wink Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    General reply: not targeting salmoned...., but branching off....

    [quote=salmoned;250378If Jesus intended for his message to be very clear and for future generations, wouldn't he have had it written down at the time? He had a treasurer, why not a recorder? No, his message was only for those hearing it from his own mouth and seeing it with their own eyes. The message transmitted by his followers was not exactly His message and the message written in the New Testament (3rd or 4th hand) was not exactly their messages, either.[/quote]
    Let's see.... "He who has ears, let him hear..." and "Go and preach this doctrine to all nations and all people..."

    That's from memory, so my quotes may be off - be gentle....

    As much as I have studied, I do not grasp the full import or meaning of Jesus' parables. I also believe the Church has not, as well.

    I have no opposition to your statements, which seem most correct. As to "WHY," I am clueless.

    I am not a nominal Christian, though I believe and follow many of Jesus' teachings as well as I can. He was a cool revolutionary at a time when his brand of protest was sorely needed. He seemingly willingly gave his life for his beliefs (one of which was "to fulfill scripture.")

    Jesus had many wise things to say. He also said things which are hard to interpret. He said the Old Testament was overly harsh "because your (the Jews) hearts were hardened." I believe he tried to usher in an era of love and forgiveness. Some got it; I believe most Christian leaders did not.

    NOWHERE in the new testament, or in related apocryphal texts can I find any justification for Pat Robertson's maniacal slander, any more than I can support the burning of so-called 'witches' in Puritan America.

    K, - let's get off our high horse and love one another - even witches, gays, and other religions.

    Or else, we will reap what we sow. Do you think you'd like your own medicine?
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    Exclamation The treasurer....

    Quote Originally Posted by surlygirly View Post
    Thank you! After 12 years of Catholic school, Pat's blatherings have nothing in common with anything I learned about.

    Jesus had a treasurer? Maybe I was absent the day we discussed that one.
    I was "born Catholic," since enlightened, so I can help:

    It's in the New Testament, which until recently was kept hidden from Catholics, Judas Iscariot was the treasurer for the 12 apostles.

    K?
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    Talking Bob's take on Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobinator View Post
    I'm supposing that by your response to my inquiry, you're saying you're a Christian? If so, then you probably don't read the Bible very much, especially the Old Testament where the Lord has executed his judgment with natural disasters. Remember the flood?
    Bobby, I have not only read the entire bible from cover to cover SEVERAL times, I even had study classes in college.

    If you are an "Old Testament" person, essentially you are a Jew, not a Christian. Jesus superseded the old books, even while fulfilling their prophecies; he said the old laws (especially the first 3 commandments) were "all right," but then he gave us a NEW COMMANDMENT to guide us.

    If you're a Christian, read the New Testament VERY CAREFULLY -- until you understand it. Mostly the synoptic gospels - you can skip Saul of Tarsus (Paul), for he never even met Jesus in the flesh.

    I still read the bible, and even understand a lot of it! But I treat the OT much like Jesus did.

    K!
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
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    Unhappy Bobby's take on Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobinator View Post
    The main message of Christianity is repentance.
    According to Jesus, the main message of Christianity if to love one another as He loved Us.

    You flunked your test. Next stop.... ????

    K-den
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    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
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    Default Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    Quote Originally Posted by Betsey View Post
    As a Christian, I draw my faith from the Jesus I see in the gospels (the one who preferred tax collectors, prostitutes and other public sinners to the professionally virtuous), and in the writings of the people who knew him and followed him closely.

    If repentance was the only thing God wanted from us, John the Baptist would have been bigger than Christ. And St Paul makes it pretty clear that the message of the Old Testament, the 'Law', is not what saves us, but God's love, and our response of faith.
    Betsey! So much insight into the values of Christianity!! Thank you! You are my favorite kind of Christian!
    ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

  25. #100

    Default Re: Bob's take on Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    I have not only read the entire bible from cover to cover SEVERAL times...
    Hey, me too! To clarify: yes, I am an atheist, but I was raised in the Episcopal church - which encouraged me to study, explore, investigate and question. The ministers were the ones who taught us about the Apocrypha, for example. Eventually, I spent much time attending different churches (Methodist, Lutheran, Mormon, Unitarian and Presbyterian among them), learning all the time. I also attended synagogues and went to Baha`i gatherings along the way. It was these combined experiences that led me to a complete disbelief in God. So I am an atheist with a pretty strong understanding of Christianity, not a religious ignoramus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    Jesus had many wise things to say. He also said things which are hard to interpret.
    Might that be because the "words" of Jesus were written down centuries after his life, the interpretations of later followers? I was never one to see the Bible as literal truth, but rather as parables, riddles, lessons, thought-provoking tales, open to personal reflection.

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