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Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

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  • #91
    Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

    Originally posted by Bobinator View Post
    The main message of Christianity is repentance.
    Hmm. Perhaps your "brand" of Christianity, but I don't know if all other Christians would agree. Let's ask 'em (since I'm not one - and I always thought the main message of Christianity was "love"). Anyone else of the Christian faith want to chime in on this, to support, refute or clarify?
    Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
    Anybody else not understand that?
    I confess, though I often disagree with salmoned, I can usually understand him (to a degree). In this case, I don't think I can agree or disagree - it's certainly not my area of expertise.

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

      I'll put my vote with Father Damien.

      As a Christian, I draw my faith from the Jesus I see in the gospels (the one who preferred tax collectors, prostitutes and other public sinners to the professionally virtuous), and in the writings of the people who knew him and followed him closely.

      If repentance was the only thing God wanted from us, John the Baptist would have been bigger than Christ. And St Paul makes it pretty clear that the message of the Old Testament, the 'Law', is not what saves us, but God's love, and our response of faith.

      I hope I don't sound like I'm preaching, I'm just trying to say what I believe, passionately.
      Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

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      • #93
        Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

        Christianity is about redeeming love; repentance is a part of it, but not the basis.

        Comment


        • #94
          Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

          Originally posted by Betsey View Post
          I hope I don't sound like I'm preaching, I'm just trying to say what I believe, passionately.
          Betsey, you are not preaching, you are speaking eloquently. We need more Christians like you.

          Blessed be.
          Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

          People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

            General reply: not targeting salmoned...., but branching off....

            [quote=salmoned;250378If Jesus intended for his message to be very clear and for future generations, wouldn't he have had it written down at the time? He had a treasurer, why not a recorder? No, his message was only for those hearing it from his own mouth and seeing it with their own eyes. The message transmitted by his followers was not exactly His message and the message written in the New Testament (3rd or 4th hand) was not exactly their messages, either.[/quote]
            Let's see.... "He who has ears, let him hear..." and "Go and preach this doctrine to all nations and all people..."

            That's from memory, so my quotes may be off - be gentle....

            As much as I have studied, I do not grasp the full import or meaning of Jesus' parables. I also believe the Church has not, as well.

            I have no opposition to your statements, which seem most correct. As to "WHY," I am clueless.

            I am not a nominal Christian, though I believe and follow many of Jesus' teachings as well as I can. He was a cool revolutionary at a time when his brand of protest was sorely needed. He seemingly willingly gave his life for his beliefs (one of which was "to fulfill scripture.")

            Jesus had many wise things to say. He also said things which are hard to interpret. He said the Old Testament was overly harsh "because your (the Jews) hearts were hardened." I believe he tried to usher in an era of love and forgiveness. Some got it; I believe most Christian leaders did not.

            NOWHERE in the new testament, or in related apocryphal texts can I find any justification for Pat Robertson's maniacal slander, any more than I can support the burning of so-called 'witches' in Puritan America.

            K, - let's get off our high horse and love one another - even witches, gays, and other religions.

            Or else, we will reap what we sow. Do you think you'd like your own medicine?
            Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
            ~ ~
            Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
            Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
            Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

            Comment


            • #96
              The treasurer....

              Originally posted by surlygirly View Post
              Thank you! After 12 years of Catholic school, Pat's blatherings have nothing in common with anything I learned about.

              Jesus had a treasurer? Maybe I was absent the day we discussed that one.
              I was "born Catholic," since enlightened, so I can help:

              It's in the New Testament, which until recently was kept hidden from Catholics, Judas Iscariot was the treasurer for the 12 apostles.

              K?
              Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
              ~ ~
              Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
              Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
              Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

              Comment


              • #97
                Bob's take on Christianity

                Originally posted by Bobinator View Post
                I'm supposing that by your response to my inquiry, you're saying you're a Christian? If so, then you probably don't read the Bible very much, especially the Old Testament where the Lord has executed his judgment with natural disasters. Remember the flood?
                Bobby, I have not only read the entire bible from cover to cover SEVERAL times, I even had study classes in college.

                If you are an "Old Testament" person, essentially you are a Jew, not a Christian. Jesus superseded the old books, even while fulfilling their prophecies; he said the old laws (especially the first 3 commandments) were "all right," but then he gave us a NEW COMMANDMENT to guide us.

                If you're a Christian, read the New Testament VERY CAREFULLY -- until you understand it. Mostly the synoptic gospels - you can skip Saul of Tarsus (Paul), for he never even met Jesus in the flesh.

                I still read the bible, and even understand a lot of it! But I treat the OT much like Jesus did.

                K!
                Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                ~ ~
                Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Bobby's take on Christianity

                  Originally posted by Bobinator View Post
                  The main message of Christianity is repentance.
                  According to Jesus, the main message of Christianity if to love one another as He loved Us.

                  You flunked your test. Next stop.... ????

                  K-den
                  Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                  ~ ~
                  Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                  Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                  Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

                    Originally posted by Betsey View Post
                    As a Christian, I draw my faith from the Jesus I see in the gospels (the one who preferred tax collectors, prostitutes and other public sinners to the professionally virtuous), and in the writings of the people who knew him and followed him closely.

                    If repentance was the only thing God wanted from us, John the Baptist would have been bigger than Christ. And St Paul makes it pretty clear that the message of the Old Testament, the 'Law', is not what saves us, but God's love, and our response of faith.
                    Betsey! So much insight into the values of Christianity!! Thank you! You are my favorite kind of Christian!
                    ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

                    Comment


                    • Re: Bob's take on Christianity

                      Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
                      I have not only read the entire bible from cover to cover SEVERAL times...
                      Hey, me too! To clarify: yes, I am an atheist, but I was raised in the Episcopal church - which encouraged me to study, explore, investigate and question. The ministers were the ones who taught us about the Apocrypha, for example. Eventually, I spent much time attending different churches (Methodist, Lutheran, Mormon, Unitarian and Presbyterian among them), learning all the time. I also attended synagogues and went to Baha`i gatherings along the way. It was these combined experiences that led me to a complete disbelief in God. So I am an atheist with a pretty strong understanding of Christianity, not a religious ignoramus.
                      Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
                      Jesus had many wise things to say. He also said things which are hard to interpret.
                      Might that be because the "words" of Jesus were written down centuries after his life, the interpretations of later followers? I was never one to see the Bible as literal truth, but rather as parables, riddles, lessons, thought-provoking tales, open to personal reflection.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Bob's take on Christianity

                        Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                        To clarify: yes, I am an atheist, but ..............I spent much time attending different churches (Methodist, Lutheran, Mormon, Unitarian and Presbyterian among them).
                        LL there is room in the Unitarian Church for Atheists if you are interested. If nothing else get together for a beer and talk about the Seahawks.

                        For those interested in what religion they really are, take the quiz at BeliefNet. It is an easy 20 questions that make you think about what you really believe. I'm not going to tell you what I am, but I had to laugh that Jehovahs Witness came out the very bottom of my ranking!
                        Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                        People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                        Comment


                        • Re: Bob's take on Christianity

                          Originally posted by matapule View Post
                          LL there is room in the Unitarian Church for Atheists if you are interested. If nothing else get together for a beer and talk about the Seahawks.
                          My second wedding took place in a Unitarian church, because I wanted no mention of God in the ceremony - but the minister slipped it in anyway, dammit.

                          The first wedding was United Methodist. Neither one "took."

                          The relationship with the AFK has not been sanctioned by any religious order, and it has outlasted BOTH the marriages combined.

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                          • Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

                            why go to a church at all? Two of my friends got married by a judge in a city hall in Idaho. Nothing religious at all when that took place.
                            Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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                            • Re: The treasurer....

                              Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
                              I was "born Catholic," since enlightened, so I can help:

                              It's in the New Testament, which until recently was kept hidden from Catholics, Judas Iscariot was the treasurer for the 12 apostles.

                              K?
                              Ohh, yeah! Thank you. I remember that now.

                              Can't think of anything creative this time

                              Comment


                              • Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

                                Matapule, TurtleGirl - Aw, gee, thanks (shuffles feet)
                                Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

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