Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

[matapule]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

Bob...your dinner's getting cold.

Thank you, Sue. Bob is just crying out for some love.

[Bobinator]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

200 is the magic number-

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ake-red-cross/

[matapule]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

200 is the magic number-

Bob, you're into voodoo too? Then go kill a chicken or something.

[Bobinator]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

No pun intended, of course.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

But he's a man of conviction and he speaks his heart...

Exactly. And his statements clearly show how empty his heart has become. I say "become," because I suspect his original motivation for becoming so publicly involved in spreading a Christian message was once much purer, but corruption has clearly won his soul.

The fact is, Haiti did make a pact with the devil...

"Fact." Interesting word to use there. Can I see some evidence of that? A receipt, or a legal contract, perhaps? Something to prove this "fact" is more than merely your "belief?"

[Bobinator]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

Exactly. And his statements clearly show how empty his heart has become. I say "become," because I suspect his original motivation for becoming so publicly involved in spreading a Christian message was once much purer, but corruption has clearly won his soul.
"Fact." Interesting word to use there. Can I see some evidence of that? A receipt, or a legal contract, perhaps? Something to prove this "fact" is more than merely your "belief?"

His heart is empty because he's trying to help them recognize their shortcomings? Uh... You act as though you don't think Haiti will suffer another calamity. Sometimes your best friend is the one who points out your faults so you can do something about it. I mean, if you have a booger sticking out of your nose, your best friend is going to face the embarrassing situation by saying, "Hey, man! Hang Ten!!" Those who aren't your true friends would avoid the situation and just walk away and let you embarrass yourself. It all depends how you look at it. Mind you, I'm just trying to present a different view here.

In the Bible, Jonah warned the city of Ninevah and it repented, averting a disaster from the Almighty. Jonah didn't want to warn Ninevah and was pissed, because he wanted to see Ninevah punished. Now, would you prefer Pat Robertson to be like that? Haiti just experienced a 5.9-6.1 aftershock today. You think things are over for them? Now they got to worry about plagues from all those rotting bodies and the ongoing suffering. If they want God's help, then they better straighten up and fly right. Pat Robertson's words were probably the best thing they could hear to give them an opportunity to turn things around. Rather than, "Poor thing. Here's your voodoo doll. Now go have yourself another earthquake." Again, if you don't believe in God, you're not going to receive this. But if you do, it might make you think twice.

Regarding the "pact" as "fact" (no rhyme intended), I beleive more writings about this subject will come forward as the days go on. Here's an article you may want to read. However, irregardless of its accuracy, the widespread acceptance and practice of voodoo in Haiti, which we all know to be true, is as good as any written pact. You can read the article and formulate your own opinion.

Note- the article's publication date of March 11, 2004-
http://www.americandaily.com/article/95

[StinkyTheGrump]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

Did you even bother to educate yourself about "voodoo"? Here's a link to a non-biased source that I'm sure you will scoff at and turn back to your sources. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Vodou

Which religion has had more evil committed in its name, Christianity, or the (according to you) religion that the practice of constitutes a pact with the devil, "voodoo"?? "Voodoo" sounds pretty benign compared to all of the religions in this world that are worshiping your god (christianity, islam, etc).

BTW, according to your link, the pact was 200 years long and had ended several years ago. What's your convenient explanation for this and the earthquake that just happened?

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

The bible does state that the Devil, not God is the ruler on earth. As such God's children are born into this physical world as mortals. How Christians conduct themselves will determine their acceptance into Heaven.

At least that's what the bible states. It states there is only one path to heaven. But that's a given because there's only one path into Home Depot, thru the front door. Heaven is but one of many places one can go after their mortal lives end depending on which you believe in, Home Depot, True Value, Lowes or Long's Hardware department.

Which is better? Who knows. Some like Home Depot, some like Lowes. Just like some may enjoy being tortured in Hell while some (like myself) will prefer the more comfortable digs of Heaven.

It's all a matter of preference. And Pat Robertson's preference is one of extremism but he's just interpreting the bible in a way he sees it. Blast him for it but it's his right as a US Citizen to be able to speak freely just as Athiests have every right to denounce the foundations of Christianity.

Personally I do feel if I do bad I will be punished for it. If a country does bad then that country will be punished for it. Case in point Nazi Germany. God didn't do it himself, we as humans punished Hitler's regime. Hitler thought he was doing God's work. The rest of the world didn't.

If one wants to look at history and create a tally on countries that were dessimated by natural disaster, all you have to do is look at the headlines. The earthquakes in Indonesia, floods in New Orleans...earthquake in Haiti. These were natural disasters but where did they hit? The Unites States has a fairly large Christian population, yet the biggest natural disaster in US history happened where? In a place that embraces devil worship in the eyes of Christians. Who controls all natural things on earth? The Devil (if you believe in God that is).

If you don't believe in God then how can you criticize a god you don't even believe in, let alone understand the doctrine he imposes upon all Christians?

If you're an athiest, all you can blame is the Earth itself and/or what it's inhabitants are doing to it like global warming. If you're an athiest all you can successfully argue is that this was a natural disaster.

But as a Christian, the writings were in the bible. No true Christian can ever say they were never told that doom was apparent. But one who does read and interpret the bible can say the warnings were given.

True Pat Robertson could have done a better way of expounding on his evangalism, but under all that religious bias, what was the message.

We all know if we do something bad we feel guilty about it. But for those who continue to do bad things and don't regret it, we call them sick. What is the definition of "Bad"? Do you feel uneasy about voodoo? Do you think it's wrong to conduct ceremonies that we feel a bit queasy about? What is your concious telling you when you see, hear or even experience voodooism?

Or do you embrace it? Love it? Yearn for it? Feel wonderful when you experience it?

How you feel about it will determine your level of objectivity about it. Pat Robertson obviously is offended by Haiti's religious views. Just as athiests feel offended by his Christian views.

But then that's an obvious bias.

Moderate Christians like myself will probably burn in Hell according to the interpretations of Christianity by extremists like Pat Robertson, because like any human, I have compassion for my fellow man. Just like God. Does Pat? Nope, I'm afraid not. But for those of us who would rather see Pat Robertson nailed to the very cross he embraces, are you any different than him. Lack of compassion for your fellow man despite their religious position?

Judge not.

I don't follow Pat Robertson's suggestions about Haiti but I won't crucify him either. Unlike Phyto who Phucked up my phriend's property with spray paint.

BTW Stinky, all of God's bad things you described were done by bad Christians not God. What happened in Haiti and Indonesia were natural disasters. A wrath put upon them not by mankind.

True I consider Pat Robertson a whacko too. But hey in his eyes I'm probably one too. To each his own, but just don't Phuck with me because as Christian as I am, I'm still human with humanistic ways. As a mortal I will always fall short from the grace of God, lest I be God himself...and that would be arrogant.

[StinkyTheGrump]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

So what exactly does god have control over on this planet? I gather the devil controls nature and all bad things. Also god is not accountable for man's actions in god's name. Is god just responsible for all the good things that happen? It certainly seems that whenever a very unlikely thing happens that results in one not dying when they seemingly were supposed to, a "miracle", god is immediately given credit. Anyone know who's responsible for what so I can be clear on this in the future?

[Kalalau]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

A few years ago the LA Times had an article that quoted Robertson staffers as saying that the planes he'd use to fly food in to Africa were also used to fly diamonds out. What does a humble minister of God need with diamonds? And he has a stable of race horses. How nice. I am sure Jesus would approve. Take care of the poor, easier for a camel to pass thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God, blessed be the peace makers, throwing money changers (profiteers) out of the temple...how far we have come. 180 degrees.

[matapule]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

Just like some may enjoy being tortured in Hell while some (like myself) will prefer the more comfortable digs of Heaven.

Craig, you can have heaven, I'm waiting for the 72 virgins. I hope they don't run out of virgins before I get there!

If one wants to look at history and create a tally on countries that were dessimated by natural disaster, all you have to do is look at the headlines. The earthquakes in Indonesia, floods in New Orleans...earthquake in Haiti. These were natural disasters but where did they hit? The Unites States has a fairly large Christian population, yet the biggest natural disaster in US history happened where? In a place that embraces devil worship in the eyes of Christians.

What a bunch of nonsense! I'm getting out my hip waders! What about the 1964 earthquake in Alaska (was that the year Palin was born)? What about the Oakland earthquake(oh its about the gays in SF)? What about the Hawaii hurricane (Craig someone is sending you a message)? Keep it up Craig, I am busting a gut laughing so hard!

how can you criticize a god you don't even believe in, let alone understand the doctrine he imposes upon all Christians?

I don't criticize god, I criticize the crackpots, like Robertson and others, that make up stuff in god's name!

But as a Christian, the writings were in the bible.

If the teachings are so clearcut.........why do so many "Christians" interpret the Bible so differently? Same for other organized religions.

Do you feel uneasy about voodoo? Do you think it's wrong to conduct ceremonies that we feel a bit queasy about? What is your concious telling you when you see, hear or even experience voodooism?

My consciousness is telling me that it is BS, just like some of the Christian dogma you profess here. I feel the same about voodoo as I do about Catholics believing they are eating the body and blood of Christ or Protestants saying they are filled with the Holy Spirit.

An orgainized religion or belief system (like voodoo) is fine if it makes you a better person. I see too many believers who are dogmatic bigots, whatever they believe in.

Come on HT ohana contribute to a Haitian Relief fund!

Judge not.

Then STOP judging the Haitians!

What happened in Haiti and Indonesia were natural disasters. A wrath put upon them not by mankind.

Ehhhhh......there you go again.......selective memory!

I'm still human with humanistic ways.

Then contribute to a Haitian Relief Fund! Where is your humanity? I'll make this easy for you. Although I'm sure you have already contributed like matapule, matapule will double any new donation you make. Here's your chance to hurt matapule in the hip pocket.

This should be good!

[matapule]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

His heart is empty because he's trying to help them recognize their shortcomings?

Bob, why is your heart empty?

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

So what exactly does god have control over on this planet? I gather the devil controls nature and all bad things. Also god is not accountable for man's actions in god's name. Is god just responsible for all the good things that happen? It certainly seems that whenever a very unlikely thing happens that results in one not dying when they seemingly were supposed to, a "miracle", god is immediately given credit. Anyone know who's responsible for what so I can be clear on this in the future?

God is not in control of Earth. Plain and simple. All God can do is suggest we believe in him. I can't tell you what God's mission is effectively if you have a bias against Christianity. You've already put up a mental block. I can't tear it down, it's not my call, it's yours and only yours. Leave it up for all I care but you ask the question, the answer comes from understanding what you don't, objectively.

Trials and tribulations is what God puts on the table for us to ponder as mortals. That's if you believe in God. If you don't and can't understand the concept of God's love, how can you criticize him if you don't even believe in him? In order to hate God, you first have to believe God is there to hate! Otherwise you're just wasting your breath.

It was a natural disaster. Instead of blaming God, blame what you believe in, the failings of a planet. All Pat Robertson is doing is blaming the source for which his religious attitude is pointing the finger at. You can say he's wrong and I applaud that because I too believe Pat Robertson is wrong. BUT PLEASE don't tell me Christianity in itself is wrong. That would be as bad as me telling you that Athiesm is wrong! And we all know we don't like things being rammed down our throats.

Regarding what you gather about doing work in God's name, that's an assumption you can harbor. That's fine. But as in anything we do in this world, it's the final outcome that determines good or evil. Things happen for the strangest reasons.

I missed my flight to Honolulu on Saturday so I had to take a later flight. That allowed me to have a one on one discussion with the guy picking me up. We ended up discussing putting together a statewide amblyopia screening initiative for preschoolers. He had been working on this for years but didn't have the vehicle to get the word out effectively. I did and now we are putting together a comprehensive statewide plan to get this done.

This wouldn't have happened if I had missed my flight to Oahu. Late I was to my meeting, but we accomplished more than what that meeting was about.

Bottom line...Pat Robertson failed in his attempt to get people to understand his position. What he did do successfully though was to gain more awareness of human suffering and produced more compassion thru anger amongst his protesters.

Outcome? More help on the way to Haiti! And isn't that what this is all about? THERE'S YOUR MIRACLE Stinky!

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

Craig, you can have heaven, I'm waiting for the 72 virgins. I hope they don't run out of virgins before I get there!

Hope is all we have right?


What a bunch of nonsense! I'm getting out my hip waders! What about the 1964 earthquake in Alaska (was that the year Palin was born)? What about the Oakland earthquake(oh its about the gays in SF)? What about the Hawaii hurricane (Craig someone is sending you a message)? Keep it up Craig, I am busting a gut laughing so hard!

I'm talking BIGGEST natural disasters. But I'm glad I got you laughing


I don't criticize god, I criticize the crackpots, like Robertson and others, that make up stuff in god's name!

And that just fine with me.

If the teachings are so clearcut.........why do so many "Christians" interpret the Bible so differently? Same for other organized religions.

because the teachings are not so clear cut. That's why Christians interpret the Bible so differently. No arguement there!



My consciousness is telling me that it is BS, just like some of the Christian dogma you profess here. I feel the same about voodoo as I do about Catholics believing they are eating the body and blood of Christ or Protestants saying they are filled with the Holy Spirit.

I don't have a problem with that. Same as I feel Athiesm has it's own inherent issues, but do you see me telling you your attitude is BS?

An orgainized religion or belief system (like voodoo) is fine if it makes you a better person. I see too many believers who are dogmatic bigots, whatever they believe in.

Did I denounce voodoo? Quote me on that accusation

Come on HT ohana contribute to a Haitian Relief fund!

We alread are, read here





Then STOP judging the Haitians!

I never did! Please read the entire post.


Ehhhhh......there you go again.......selective memory!

I apologize for that, you definately have one better than mine



Then contribute to a Haitian Relief Fund! Where is your humanity? I'll make this easy for you. Although I'm sure you have already contributed like matapule, matapule will double any new donation you make. Here's your chance to hurt matapule in the hip pocket.

Go to that HT thread I posted above. 32 members in our club equally donating a total of $1,000. Not much but for this unemployed person, it is. But go ahead match it anyway if it empowers you.

This should be good!

Yes it was because now you will donate more. Mission accomplished matapule. BTW keep laughing, the world needs it.

[StinkyTheGrump]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

God is not in control of Earth. Plain and simple. All God can do is suggest we believe in him. I can't tell you what God's mission is effectively if you have a bias against Christianity. You've already put up a mental block. I can't tear it down, it's not my call, it's yours and only yours. Leave it up for all I care but you ask the question, the answer comes from understanding what you don't, objectively.

I dunno, perhaps I do have a mental block regarding Christianity that has developed over the years. I certainly have plenty of experience with churches and those who call themselves Christians and have heard a lot of what they profess. From this and the study of history I have seen and heard too many inconsistencies and too many truly bad things happen in the name of religion to not be skeptical. I simply cannot accept without question, unlike many, the religion I happened to have been born into.

But anyway, if god is not in control of earth then what does he have to do with meeting that guy and good things happening, or any miracle, for that matter? It's just ridiculous that any good thing is automatically attributed to god's infinite goodness, any bad thing is attributed to punishment or "god's mysterious ways" (if it happens to be a good person that bad things befell), and anyone that is a Christian and does something evil has fallen to the devil's temptation because they are merely a weak and imperfect sinner (like everyone, right?), not because they are a disgusting pervert or are just a sick individual.

Isn't the human race at a point that it can stop ascribing things in nature that it cannot explain to a mystical higher power? Can't we take responsibility for our actions instead of blaming the devil? Can't we act morally without the threat of eternal torture and damnation hanging over our heads?

BTW, I have no problem with those who are religious. Many in my family are religious and happen to be wonderful people. I love them all.