Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

[salmoned]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

That's right. Every volunteer or paid worker going to Haiti wants to feed off the pain and suffering or feed off the relief they can provide to those in pain or suffering. Disaster relief teams would be outta work [or idle] if they weren't sent, and millions of dollars would not be contributed to their businesses (including NGOs) had Haiti not suffered this earthquake. Pain and suffering is their business and they don't want anyone else competing or impeding them with regard to those needy victims [and cash donations $$].

Pat Robertson doesn't get the benefit of the doubt because he's made statements without providing any proof or logical reason. Here's the catch, he's right that we shouldn't be sending help, but he's wrong that it has anything to do with God or the gods (if you don't believe there are other gods, you don't believe the Bible at all). It doesn't help one bit that he's found the right answer for the wrong reasons - because reason is the best basis for us to make decisions upon, not 'faith' that Pat Robertson has the answer direct from God.

Question - Why do we need so many different posts on the Haiti earthquake?

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

I can't come (well I am old after all), but I'll buy a ticket. Send me a PM with a mailing address and I'll send it in February, the next time I have access to a US post office.

I PM'd you matapule. Thank you for your generosity!

[StinkyTheGrump]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

Question - Why do we need so many different posts on the Haiti earthquake?

I started this thread while the other thread was being posted, otherwise I would have simply posted in that thread.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

If I could fly to Haiti, I would be there pulling victims out of the ruins, but all I can do is to sacrifice what I have left in savings and give to the cause.

Anyone wanna buy a ticket let me know.

I can't come (well I am old after all), but I'll buy a ticket. Send me a PM with a mailing address and I'll send it in February, the next time I have access to a US post office.

I PM'd you matapule. Thank you for your generosity!

While a willingness to volunteer and provide hands-on assistance to the earthquake victims in Haiti is laudable, please keep in mind..... If you are not going in as part of a trained/self-sufficient team of relief workers and you arrive at the airport without your own transportation, bedding, and yes, your own personal supply of food and water, then you could end up actually being a hindrance to the relief effort, according to this MSNBC story.

More than a week after a magnitude-7 earthquake devastated the country, disaster organizers say they’re seeing the first signs of a problem that can hinder even the most ambitious recovery efforts: good intentions gone wrong.

From volunteer medical teams who show up uninvited, to stateside donors who ship boxes of unusable household goods, misdirected compassion can actually tax scarce resources, costing time, money, energy — and lives, experts say.

“Everyone wants to be a hero. Everyone wants to help,” said Dr. Thomas Kirsch, co-director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Refugee and Disaster Response. “It’s not the way to do it.”

Even a medical crew from his own school — Kirsch declined to identify them — arrived in Haiti so ill-prepared they had to seek sustenance from non-governmental organizations.

“They had no bedding, supplies or food,” he said. “They ended up glomming onto some of the NGOs."

Those best suited to help are probably already there, experts said. They’re trained crews who not only have experience working in disasters, but also in developing nations, Kirsch said. The best teams also have a command of Haitian Creole and French, if possible.

When teams arrive without those skills and without their own supplies, they drain resources that could better be used for actual victims, said Dr. Kristi L. Koenig, an emergency physician at the University of California, Irvine, who specializes in disaster response.

“Unless you’re part of a team before the disaster happens with a formal mission, you’re going to be part of the problem,” she said.

I received an email from a young attorney friend of mine last night. He says he has been trying to connect with a relief group in Haiti to go there and volunteer. He said "no dice." All the groups he's contacted said that they don't need more people, they need more money for supplies. They asked him to send a donation in the amount of his air travel and expenses instead.

Interesting.

That advice is pretty much is in accordance with the insights from the relief/humanitarian aid experts quoted in the MSNBC news story. Unless you have some specialized skills or expertise that happens to be in need, these NGOs typically don't want to take on volunteer workers who suddenly want go on a lark because of the suffering they see on TV.

And while we are on the topic of providing assistance that is appropriate,....

Don't start rummaging through your house with the idea of donating your old clothes, canned food, and household goods to the people of Haiti. Per the experts:

Donations of old clothes, canned goods, water and outdated prescriptions are accumulating, said Brooks. While such items sound useful, they’re actually expensive to sort, to transport and to distribute, she said. Cast-off drugs can be dangerous.

Oftentimes, the household items donated are simply not useful to the disaster victims they’re intended to help.

“I guarantee you someone is going to send a winter coat or high-heeled shoes,” Brooks said.

The bottom line? The best thing to do is to make a financial contribution to a reputable charity and to say a prayer for the victims.

[tutusue]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

[...]
The bottom line? The best thing to do is to make a financial contribution to a reputable charity and to say a prayer for the victims.

Bingo. Before he retired, my cousin was part of an elite rescue dog team. Ro was sent to the worst of the worst sites...the Murrah building in Oklahoma City and 9/11 in NYC, as examples. His stories are unbelievable. He also raised and trained some of the dogs. He said pre-trained disaster relief personnel were needed. For those of you who truly are interested in helping in on site disaster relief, now is the time to hook up with an appropriate agency for future disasters.

Ro would be in Haiti right now if it wasn't for his retirement. Now he spends his time traveling the U.S. training rescue dog teams.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

The one good thing about me is that I have been trained in search and rescue while in the military and have participated in emergency response on the mainland before.

And I have had to spend time sorting out donated items to see what is of use for the situation. Time lost. Best advice from afar is monetary where funds can go to relief organizations and your donated dollars can be cumulatively spent on purchasing exactly what is needed for the cause.

Been on both sides and if you're not capable of being the right person for the job, the best you can do is support it thru your donations and let those who are trained to deal with the situation effectively.

BTW matapule, you are a good person! Mahalo for your support! Yeah we've been PM'ing back and forth. We're good!

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

The one good thing about me is that I have been trained in search and rescue while in the military and have participated in emergency response on the mainland before.

If you have search and rescue experience, then I guess the best thing to do would be to submit your resume to humanitarian aid organizations who are sending volunteers to Haiti. But FYI, search and rescue operations have already wrapped up, for the most part. Now, the focus is on providing medical treatment and humanitarian aid for the survivors.

Whatever anyone decides to do, don't go to Haiti on your own.Alanna Shaikh of the UN Dispatch explains:

Don't go to Haiti. It’s close to the US, it’s a disaster area, and we all want to help. However, it’s dangerous right now and they don’t need “extra hands”. The people who are currently useful are people with training in medicine and emergency response. If all you can contribute is unskilled labor, stay home. There is no shortage of unskilled labor in Haiti, and Haitians will be a lot more committed than you are to the rebuilding process.

If you are a nurse or physician, especially with experience in trauma, and you want to volunteer, email Partners in Health – volunteer@pih.org – and offer your services. Or submit your details to International Medical Corps. They’ll take you if they can use you. Do not go to Haiti on your own, even if you are doctor. You’ll just add to the confusion, and you’ll be a burden to whoever ends up taking responsibility for your safety.

I'll add this. No matter what kind of skills/experience that someone has to offer, that person becomes one more mouth to feed in a disaster area where every bit of food and drinking water is valuable. If any do-gooder goes to Haiti without providing for themselves, then the cold hard truth is that they become a liability rather than an asset to the relief/recovery effort.

And I have had to spend time sorting out donated items to see what is of use for the situation. Time lost.

Exactly. Shaikh details how material donations actually does a lot more harm than good for disaster victims.

After Hurricane Mitch in 1998, Honduras was flooded with shipments of donated goods. They clogged ports, overwhelmed military transport, and made it nearly impossible for relief agencies to ship in the things they really needed. Those donations did harm, not good. Expired drugs had to be carefully disposed of. Inappropriate donations had to be transported away and discarded. All of this wasted time and money.

Once again, if one feels a need to help the people of Haiti, then make a monetary contribution to a reputable charity. This kind of giving will provide the earthquake victims exactly the kind of help they need and it will reach them much sooner.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

One thing I do understand is the implimentation of search and rescue with coordinated teams. They typically are first responders and have active members in place by the time the news hits the streets. If you are not part of an organized Search and Rescue operation yet still have the skills, you still have to gear up and that is something most operations don't have the luxury of dealing with. You hit the ground running and should know the routine prior to arriving to avoid wasting precious time.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

Back on topic:
It's a shame that a person can claim to be a member, or even worse, a leader, within a particular philosophical (religious) group, speak his/her PERSONAL 'revelation' and it will have some backlash to other members of a similarly named group to the extent that 'others' will be able to say, "See what {expletive deleted} these {identification deleted} are?"

Pat Robertson certainly does not represent all Christians (I don't think anyone does: there's Catholics, Anglicans and 31 flavors of Protestants as well as more recent iterations who consider themselves 'the one true faith'), but non-Christians will tend to judge all Christians by the actions of the most noticeable.

Similarly, Islam, generally considered by many to be a 'religion of peace' is being given a bad name because of things (people) like Al-Queda, Islamic terrorists (in general), the Taliban, the Suuni/Shiite conflict in Iraq, and so on.

Reading over the twists and turns this thread has taken, I think that this is where we were going before we got distracted.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

Pat Robertson certainly does not represent all Christians ... but non-Christians will tend to judge all Christians by the actions of the most noticeable.

True, and I certainly apologize if any of my posts have created that impression.

[Bobinator]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

To Christians who strongly disagree with Pat Robertson's belief: I'm curious to know what you're position is on the cause and effect of the earthquake.

To Hindus and Buddhists: You guys believe in karma. Isn't that similar in nature to what Robertson was suggesting?

True, Robertson's views do not represent all Christians. But let's consider that not all Christians are in agreement with the God of the Bible either. Otherwise, there wouldn't be thousands of different denominations of Christianity.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

True, Robertson's views do not represent all Christians. But let's consider that not all Christians are in agreement with the God of the Bible either. Otherwise, there wouldn't be thousands of different denominations of Christianity.

Very true, B. That is why I do not condemn all Christians or Christianity in general for the public ramblings of a single intolerant soul.

However, since he does have that public soapbox, it is a shame that he is not more considerate of his own statements, knowing full well that he WILL be thought of by many as a "spokesman for Christianity" - just as many inaccurately seem to think Osama Bin Laden is a "spokesman for Islam."

[salmoned]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

Like it or not, he IS a spokesman for christians, at the very least for all those who've sent him money (and that's plenty, too). He often appears on panels for his christian views on many different issues. Osama is a spokesman for his brand of islam, as well.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

To Christians who strongly disagree with Pat Robertson's belief: I'm curious to know what you're position is on the cause and effect of the earthquake.

To Hindus and Buddhists: You guys believe in karma. Isn't that similar in nature to what Robertson was suggesting?

True, Robertson's views do not represent all Christians. But let's consider that not all Christians are in agreement with the God of the Bible either. Otherwise, there wouldn't be thousands of different denominations of Christianity.

Earthquakes are natural Earth phenomenon. They have been happening before God was even "revealed to man."

Christians follow the teachings of Jesus.- or are supposed to, anyway.
Jesus' new commandment was that 'we love one another as he loved us.'

I sure don't see anything about bringing earthquakes down except in revelation (not from Jesus), in which case - hold onto your hats!

Jesus made it VERY clear: He was about love and forgiveness.

Jesus would not bring earthquakes to kill thousands, he would forgive them. As I forgive you in your hard-heartedness, for you know not what you do.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Pat Robertson's take on Haiti

Like it or not, he IS a spokesman for christians, at the very least for all those who've sent him money (and that's plenty, too). He often appears on panels for his christian views on many different issues. Osama is a spokesman for his brand of islam, as well.

Perhaps he is the latest anti-christ. He certainly does NOT sound like a Christian that follows the teachings of Jesus!