John Edwards’ Affair Fallout

[tutusue]

Re: John Edwards’ Affair Fallout

Perhaps, but AFAIK, our current First Family are the Obamas, not the Clintons.

Ummm, Random, I was responding to this:

I always knew Elizabeth Edward is mo smartah than [Secretary of State] Hilary Clinton.

Nowhere were the Obamas mentioned.

[TuNnL]

Re: John Edwards’ Affair Fallout

Sounds like a sex tape has been uncovered. Breaking news...tomorrow...per ABC!

And for those who missed ABC’s 20/20™ news investigation, it is quite damaging indeed. IMHO, it leaves no doubt that John Edwards is enshrined as one the top 10 most vile, despicable politicians in U.S. history. Edwards has buried his political future for life, and the best he can hope for at this point, is that no one will go to prison over campaign spending law violations.

If the above link is no longer current, they have begun posting the multi-vid segment on youtube.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: John Edwards’ Affair Fallout

Kinda apples and oranges in a way. The questions that'll remain unanswered are...Like the Clintons, would the Edwards' have stayed together while in the White House as President and first lady? And, unlike the Clintons, would the Edwards' have separated once his term(s) was over? No way of knowing...

Who knows? But we do know that she was willing to stick by and campaign for her husband in '08, even after she knew John had cheated on her. Is that the sign of a forgiving spouse? Or one who was so enamoured of possibly becoming First Lady at all costs? Only Elizabeth Edwards can honestly answer for herself.

Is she finally leaving her husband after her patience and trust had been violated once too many? Or is she leaving him after the carcass that was the former senator's political viability had been picked clean by the media vultures? Whatever the answer is, I've lost quite a bit of respect for Elizabeth Edwards. A Jenny Sanford, she sure isn't.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: John Edwards’ Affair Fallout

And for those who missed ABC’s 20/20™ news investigation, it is quite damaging indeed. IMHO, it leaves no doubt that John Edwards is enshrined as one the top 10 most vile, despicable politicians in U.S. history. Edwards has buried his political future for life, and the best he can hope for at this point, is that no one will go to prison over campaign spending law violations.

I opined way back last September that John Edwards was the most despised politician. As that thread shows, I got quite a bit of argument on that one, at the time. Anyone care to argue about it now?

[Random]

Re: John Edwards’ Affair Fallout

Nowhere were the Obamas mentioned.

What I meant to say is, now that the Clintons are no longer in the White House, Hillary had plenny time to kick Slick Willy to the curb, especially after Chelsea is all grown up. She nevah.

"Secretary of State", my okole.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: John Edwards’ Affair Fallout

I opined way back last September that John Edwards was the most despised politician. As that thread shows, I got quite a bit of argument on that one, at the time. Anyone care to argue about it now?

John Edwards cheated on his wife while she was in hospital. So did Newt Gingrich, who even haggled with his wife over divorce terms while she was recovering from cancer treatments. Then he had another affair while he was pushing for impeachment of then-President Clinton.

Many other politicians of all stripes have had extramarital sexual relationships - John McCain, John F. Kennedy, Rudy Giuliani, Bill Clinton, so on and so on and so on.

Politicians have had children outside of wedlock for a long time - even among the founders of this nation. And they've often paid to hush things up.

Does that kind of stupidity and cruelty to their loved ones qualify them for the "most despised" title? Not in my opinion. I'd save that for those who abuse their political powers for actions that damage our status in the world, undermine the foundations of our legal system, and/or result in the unnecessary deaths of our citizens. National/international damage - not the familial variety.

You can easily fill in the blank with names that fit those criteria, starting the list with Presidents Nixon, Reagan and Bush II.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: John Edwards’ Affair Fallout

Many other politicians of all stripes have had extramarital sexual relationships - John McCain, John F. Kennedy, Rudy Giuliani, Bill Clinton, so on and so on and so on.

JFK is now dead. But for each of the others who's still living, they've all managed to emerge from their scandals with varying levels of respectability and influence.

Clinton is highly sought after as a paid public speaker, raised millions for the WJC Foundation, and as the 2008 presidential campaign makes clear, still effective when it comes to stumping for candidates.

Giuliani frequently appears as a political commentator on various news networks. Would have likely won the 2010 GOP nomination for New York governor, but was not inclined to run in a general election against family friend Andrew Cuomo.

McCain? The man (shortcomings and all) won the GOP nomination for President. Still a US senator, and polling strongly ahead against his nearest rival in the 2010 Republican primary.

John Edwards' reputation is total mud. He can't win his party's nomination for dog catcher, would be toxic as a fund raiser, and has no credibility as a commentator/analyst. If you don't know the difference between all of the above and John Edwards, you need to take a closer look.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: John Edwards’ Affair Fallout

But for each of the others who's still living, they've all managed to emerge from their scandals with varying levels of respectability and influence. ~~~ John Edwards' reputation is total mud.

Time has passed from all of the others' scandals, Edwards' is still fresh. You can't use that as comparable criteria.

But my point (which you regularly avoid, FM) is that I don't consider infidelity, while certainly "despicable" behavior, to be enough to make any politician the "most despicable." Infidelity harms reputations and a close circle of family. The factors I noted, which I will quote for you, so you can focus back on them:

...those who abuse their political powers for actions that damage our status in the world, undermine the foundations of our legal system, and/or result in the unnecessary deaths of our citizens.

adversely affect thousands of human lives the world over.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: John Edwards’ Affair Fallout

Time has passed from all of the others' scandals, Edwards' is still fresh. You can't use that as comparable criteria.

True, but time will prove me right. McCain, Clinton, JFK, Giuliani did not have the cloud of a sex tape hanging over their heads.

But my point (which you regularly avoid, FM) is that I don't consider infidelity, while certainly "despicable" behavior, to be enough to make any politician the "most despicable." Infidelity harms reputations and a close circle of family. The factors I noted, which I will quote for you, so you can focus back on them: adversely affect thousands of human lives the world over.

And my point (which you regularly avoid, LL) is that John Edwards' faults go way beyond having a marital infidelity. It's a combination of so many sleazy things. I encouraged you to take a closer look into the tangled mess that was John Edwards' life, but instead, you evaded the issue.

Fine. I'll just spell it out myself then.

1) Having an affair.
2) Having an affair while his wife is battling a life-threatening illness.
3) Having an illegitimate child with his mistress.
4) Trying to cover up the mistress' illegitimate child by having his aide claim paternity.
5) Allegedly having a wealthy donor pay hush money to the mistress.
6) Disgruntled aide now claiming possession of compromising photos and a video of the couple engaged in "intimate" acts.
7) Exposing himself to be one of the biggest hypocrites, when he said of Bill Clinton in 1999;

I think this President has shown a remarkable disrespect for his office, for the moral dimensions of leadership, for his friends, for his wife, for his precious daughter. It is breathtaking to me the level to which that disrespect has risen.

8) But perhaps most damaging of all, incrementally coughing up the truth, and doing so only when faced with irrefutable evidence that was about to be revealed. It would have been far better for him to make a clean break of everything in one shot, a la Letterman. But no, Edwards let the embarrasing truth dribble out one after the other. Each revelation chipping away at his credibility and trustworthiness until there was virtually nothing left.

How bad John Edwards' scandal fits into the sphere of all other scandals is, of course, a matter of opinion. So relax, Leo. If you don't see the big deal in any of this, that's fine. But it's clearly touching a nerve with many other Americans, whether you choose to recognize it or not.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: John Edwards’ Affair Fallout

True, but time will prove me right.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Remember - ten years ago, Clinton's reputation was also "mud." No Democratic candidate wanted to have his help on the campaign trail in 2000. But as you've noted, he's a respected statesman now.

Check with me in a decade, and we'll see if Edwards has recovered. Personally, I don't care if he vanishes from the scene altogether (even though I was an early supporter of him in past campaigns - good thing he didn't succeed, no?)

As for your list, those are mostly things that have happened before to politicians, some of whom survived the scandals, some didn't. But you've continued to avoid my point, yet again, that these activities pale against the behaviors of politicos that I outlined much earlier.

Apparently, you have an obsession with public figures who commit infidelity, your lengthy posting history about John Edwards & Tiger Woods being two prime examples.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: John Edwards’ Affair Fallout

Apparently, you have an obsession with public figures who commit infidelity, your lengthy posting history about John Edwards & Tiger Woods being two prime examples.

Can't we just chalk up our varying POV as differences in personal values and priorities? Why the need to characterize someone else's emphasis on a matter you deem as being less important an "obsession?"

[Random]

Re: John Edwards’ Affair Fallout

Does that kind of stupidity and cruelty to their loved ones qualify them for the "most despised" title?

Yes, IMNSHO.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: John Edwards’ Affair Fallout

Interesting that some consider harm to a few to be more "despicable" than harm to thousands. Then again, perhaps the number is irrelevant - "despicable" behavior is what it is, regardless of the number of victims.

But what about the level of hurt done to said victims? Pain from infidelity or some other survivable emotional wound versus death of innocents?

Is David Berkowitz "less" despicable than Timothy McVey?

Is Gary Hart "less" despicable than Pol Pot?

Let's roll these questions around in our heads for a while. If you are calling for someone to be "most" despicable, then you must feel that the level of said behavior is rankable after all.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: John Edwards’ Affair Fallout

Is Gary Hart "less" despicable than Pol Pot?

Gary Hart vs Pol Pot? Well, you can ponder that one all you want.

Let me re-iterate what was earlier stated.

IMHO, it leaves no doubt that John Edwards is enshrined as one the top 10 most vile, despicable politicians in U.S. history.

TuNnl and I were talking about despicable politicians in the U.S. Pol Pot held power over in Cambodia/Kampuchea.

Watch the 20/20 expose on John Edwards that TuNnl was talking about. I can't emphasize this enough. Edwards' misdeeds go way, WAY beyond just cheating on his wife. The interview with Andrew Young reveals how the former vice-presidential nominee not only used his squeaky clean public image to deceive an entire nation. He used his charm, charisma, and influence in the most devious ways. Not the least of which was to entice and manipulate those in his inner circle to do things that they knew were wrong. This would include Elizabeth Edwards and Andrew Young. And while I am not excusing Young and Mrs. Edwards for their role in the scandal and cover-up, John Edwards was at the center of all the deceit and wrongdoing that was taking place around him.

If some people think that despicability is only manifested when death and physical destruction is involved, whatever. But I know I'm not the only person who finds it deeply disturbing and disgusting when a major political figure in this country uses their position and influence to mobilize the people around them into committing acts of conspiracy and wrongdoing. And as the 20/20 story says, the Edwards cover-up may yield some forthcoming criminal charges. There's a trail of hush money and questionable campaign fund expenditures that are being scrutinized even now.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: John Edwards’ Affair Fallout

TuNnl and I were talking about despicable politicians in the U.S. Pol Pot held power over in Cambodia/Kampuchea.

Sorry - I was trying to emphasize the behavior for clarification, not picking over specifics.

Watch the 20/20 expose on John Edwards that TuNnl was talking about. I can't emphasize this enough. Edwards' misdeeds go way, WAY beyond just cheating on his wife.

Thanks, I will do so. Remember, I did agree earlier that his (no-death-involved) behavior can still be called "despicable" - now, I doubt I'll agree with your "most" title, but it sounds like your assessment that his reputation will never recover (unlike, say, President Clinton) is likely to be accurate.